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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: skida on Monday 30 July 12 01:11 BST (UK)
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I have inherited a rather extensive family tree compiled by my grandfather (Robert Rayne) and his cousin (Alfred R Green) in the early 20th century, and at the top of the tree is "Nicholas Reyne, Keeper of Marwood Hagg or Chase. Born 1497. Supposed son of George Reyne of Thringarth". I have been able to confirm most of the entries and even correct a mistake on one branch, so I consider myself lucky that my GF did all this work, but I am intrigued about George. I wonder if any of the knowledgeable people here can suggest any way to confirm the existence of George in Thringarth, probably a farmer because his sons were all farmers.
Members of my family convinced themselves that we are descended from the Lord of the Manor who either took his name from, or gave it to, the town of Rayne in Essex, but I realise that trying to work forward from an individual is likely to end in disappointment. There is one coincidence, though: The Essex Raynes ended up in a place or house called "Sweet Shipley" in Northants (I think), and the farm Nicholas and his descendents lived in was "Shipley" near Egglestone (now High Shipley).
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Well looking on the Durham Records office site, the earliest church baptisms is not as far back as the 1400's so finding out about George is I think going to be difficult and your GF has done exceptionally well to get back that far.
I also have Raines from That area including many many other people and we find it very difficult to go backwards never mind forwards as there are many many raines, Dents etc and all inter mixed down the line.
As for Shipley, been in other parts of the country well there are many and we also havre to remember that travel was different in those times so did the family go south which I have found is unussual as there mostly travel north to find work.
Sorry I cannot help you in your quest so good looking.
JR
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Thanks for the reply. I suspected that George was going to be my "dead-end". The only hope I have is to maybe track down wills and court records as I believe they were all property owners/yeomen farmers. I have been able to find my way round birth, baptism and death records but I am a novice when it comes to "legal" documents.
It amazes me that my GF and his cousin compiled so much when transport in the early 20th was much more difficult than now. I have one of his notebooks and there are notes from gravestones, sections copied from parish records etc. plus I have copies of legal searches they must have paid for. An amazing piece of work!
The Essex and Northants Raynes pre-date the Yorkshire/Durham Raynes, so if there is a connection it is evidence of a drift Northwards. The properties I have been able to identify as connected with my Raynes are Shipley, Roger Moor Farm, Moorey Lea, Snow Hall (Gainford) and Newton Cap Flatts Farm (Bishop Auckland).
The (High) Shipley Raynes were in positions appointed by the Crown, such as "Keeper of Marwood Hagg" (a deer park of the crown) and "Keeper of the King's Buck Hounds".
If anyone thinks they have a connection I am happy to share information.
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Just another thought:
I know that the number of properties in the area of Thringarth is very low and I know of one that was actually owned by a Rayne, so does anyone know if it is easy (or even possible) to track back through the ownership of a specific property? I am sure I saw this tactic mentioned in a Family History publication, some time back, but didn't really take it in.
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I thought that this website might be of interest to you - a mixture of photos, personal memories and general information about Lunedale, so there might be something about Thringarth.
http://www.lunedaleheritage.org.uk/
There are 2 books of photos and memories of Lunedale and I can't remember their titles. We bought the 2nd volume a few months ago in Middleton newsagents and now I can't remember where we put it. (We have a lot of -too many?- books) I had a feeling that there might be something about Thringarth in there.
When I find the book, I'll get in touch if it has anything of interest to you.
When we first moved to this street over 30 years ago there was a Mr Raine who came from Thringarth originally and when he died he was buried at Laithkirk.
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Thanks for the link Geordie Mag. I have had an initial look and there are lots of references to Raines. More reading will follow.
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Glad it was of interest. Still haven't found that book!
Looking at your other idea - about tracing families through the house - one problem is that in the dales the people living in the house were often not the owner, so in tithe records you get "owned by George Alderson, occupied by James Mudd". The other thing to remember is that most farms were built from the 17th century onwards, because up to that time conditions were too unsettled for people to invest a lot of money and time in buildings. You never knew when them pesky Scots were going to roll over the hills!
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Hi,
I believe we have a copy of the same pedigree starting with George Rayne of Thringarth.
I think a lot of the information on the pedigree was originally discovered by T.W.Marley.
I believe Sweet Shipley was an name of somewhere in Marwood Hagg. The Durham Records Office has a map of Sweet Shipley. The same name appears on a photographic copy of an old coat of arms we have that came from the house of Emma Rayne (who sold High Shipley to the Bowes family). The arms claim descent from the Reynes of Clifton, but that was probably wishful thinking. T.W.Marley obtained the original painting of the arms from Canon Raine.
Regards,
mwr
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Yes, I am aware that my grandfather, Robert Rayne and his cousin Alfred R Green, drew a lot of information from T W Marley. All three of them appear on branches of the family tree.
Sweet Shipley, I believe, was the name of the house of the Reynes, at the place called Clifton Reynes (now within Milton Keynes). This family is also connected with a place, or house called "Merwood", another one of those annoying coincidences as that is very similar to "Marwood".
All of these "coincidences" lead me to the possibilty that the Lunedale, Teesdale and Langleydale Raynes/Raines are descended from the Clifton Reynes, though proof will be hard to come by.
Thanks for the reply, mwr, and if you would like to compare notes feel free to pm me.
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The copy of the Shipley arms that we have has the following text:
"Thomas Raine of Sweet Shipley. Married ye daughter and Heir of Sir Simon Borard Lord of Clifton in Buckingham Shire, and had two other Lord Shipps, one in Bedford Shire and the other in Leicester Shire.
"He was by this macth Dns Raine de Clifton. Afterwards, severall of the Heirs of the said family of Raines married into the Worshipfull and Renowned viz.
( Maleverer of Yorkshire )
"Into ye family of ( Froike of ye West )
( Broughton of Cheshire )
( Booth of Chester )"
Mr Berrill, a Clifton Reynes expert who I consulted about this many years ago wrote that the armorial shield probably dates from the C17, and that the loss of the 's' from the surname is a worry. He wrote it could be that a Shipley Rayne obtained some information about the Buckinghamshire branch of the Reynes family and adjusted their arms accordingly. However he also wrote that the reference to Maleverer of York is most interesting, since it is not identified in the pedigree given by the Brudenall Family which was used by Lipscomb and other Buckinghamshire historians.
As you, say the existence of a Marwood in Kent that was connected with the Reynes of Clifton is interesting. Possibly the Marwood in Kent was named after Marwood in Teesdale, since Marwood is mentioned in the Durham copy of Symeon's Life of St Cuthbert written in 1050 AD, indicating that the name 'Marwood' existed in the north in 850 AD.
Have you considered the possibility of a connection with the Raymes of Aydon and Shortflatt in Northumbria?
Regards,
mwr
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Hi skida,
I recently looked at a 1763 field plan of Shipley and Marwood at the Durham County Record Office . This includes thumbnail sketches of a cluster of buildings at High Shipley, and another building (no longer standing) near the River Tees opposite Cotherstone labelled Sweet Shipley.
Regards,
mwr
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Sorry I missed your posts mwr, but I don't think the email notification is working for me on this thread.
That is another coincidence, as I know that the house or estate at Clifton Reynes was at one time called Sweet Shipley. It is all rather frustrating.
Thanks for the extra info.
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Hi there
I am interested in the Raynes family of Appleton-le-Street in Yorkshire, being descended from James Raynes, who died there in 1642.
I have seen claims, but no proof, that this family is descended from the Bucks Raines. They have a page in Dugdale's Visitation of Yorkshire in 1666. I know nothing of heraldry, but Dugdale described their arms (Azure, a chevron engrailed between three cranes' heads erased Argent, each holding in the beak an oak-branch, leaves Vert, acorns Or) and I am attaching the sketch.
A grandson of James Raynes was briefly Lord Mayor of York in 1688.
Grateful for any clues to their origins, or links to the Durham branch.
Andrew
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Hi Andrew. I am afraid I don't have any information to link James to my Teesdale and Langleydale ancestors. One of my many-greats uncles lived at Snow Hall in Gainford and there is some history here:
http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/NEI_snowhall.pdf
If you scroll down to page 10 and look at the pencil drawing, you will see a family coat of arms on the building, with a chevron and three stars. The chevron and three items seems to be a common feature of the many variations of Rayne crest I have seen.
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That is interesting. I expect you know the book "The Descent of the family of Deacon..." , which contains an extensive description of the Reynes family? It's available on-line (I'll put the link at the end of this mail, as it is rather long)- There is nothing there to hint at any movement of the Clifton Reynes family northwards, but on p. 187 it says...
"WILLIAM continued to reside in the manor, and the barony remained in the family until sold by Walter, son of Geoffrey de Raines in the 13th century. Their descendants settled in Bedfordshire and Bucks, and from them sprang the Reynes of Clifton Reynes, Co. Bucks, and Raines of Wyton, Yorkshire. Burkes Landed Gentry, 1850, Vol. 2, Supplement."
Wyton is near Hull in the East Riding. This might help to explain the link to Appleton-le-Street (near Malton),
Andrew
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Finternational.loc.gov%2Fservice%2Fgdc%2Fscd0001%2F2010%2F20101009102de%2F20101009102de.pdf&ei=GQ9aUuBu47jRBeqbgeAI&usg=AFQjCNGXmnzuHPCL_x_Oi8q55n3OsFc2ZQ
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I am late joining this thread but have only just discovered it. I see that the thread is dated with the month, day and time but curiously no year! And so I do not know how old it may be.
My RAINES ancestors lived in and around Kettering, Northamptonshire and I extensive records of my lot. I am now researching the Reynes of Cyfton Reynes & Buckinghamshire.
Several years ago, to aid my research, I established the RAINES Families of Great Britain DNA Project. One of the earliest successes of the project was that we were able to scientifically confirm a genetic relation between the RAINES of Northamptonshire and the RAINE of Yorkshire. I even met up with with one of my distant RAINE cousins (we shared the same ancestor 400 years ago) and we were shocked to see that we looked like one another!
I would particularly like to communicate with SKIDA if he is still online.
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Hello Emasar,
Welcome to RootsChat, I can see the year as 2013, the member you wish to contact with be notified of your reply by email, they have been online in 2019.
Regards
Sarah
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I am still about! I don't seem to get email notifications for this thread (except this time). I haven't been active in my genealogy for a while, but I am always interested if people arrive with new information. Hi! emesar.