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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: deeiluka on Sunday 29 July 12 01:20 BST (UK)
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I'm on a scavenging hunt.
There's an Edward Tuckwell, convict, convicted at the Old Bailey in 1827 and sent to Tasmania in 1828. According to his age at conviction, he was born c1809. I've found mention of him in various convict records and Trove newspapers, including mention of Ticket of Leave, and then nothing more. The last mention of him that I've found is in the Cornwall Chronicle, Launceston in 1836.
I have a theory about where he went, but I don't seem to be able to find anything to back it up. So if anyone feels like the challenge of trying to find any information about him, I'd appreciate it greatly.
Dee :)
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Hi
Does his convict record give a place of birth or next of kin, save us a bit of search time?
mum mum
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Old Bailey record http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18271206-128&div=t18271206-128&terms=tuckwell#highlight seems to indicate he was an orphan from Middlesex and aged 18 in 1827.
I'm still trying to actually find his page in the online Tasmanian records. (My slow slow broadband takes ages to load a page.)
If he is who I think he may be, his South Australian marriage record gives his father as also being Edward Tuckwell. It's finding something that may indicate he moved on to South Australia or not is what I haven't been able to do. :-\
Dee :)
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Hi
Unfortunately it seems that convicts moved to the mainland and tried to hide their past. Also difficult finding shipping records for families leaving Tas and arriving on the mainland.
I guess if you can find the parents of the convict and they are the same parents listed in the SA marriage that makes him very likely.
mum mum
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Conduct Record
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-42,190,147,L,80
Description List
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON18-1-22,248,243,L,80
Debra :)
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I know this is a really long shot, but I felt I had to give it a go. :-\
It's my children's 3 x great grandfather I'm trying to trace.
Thanks mum mum for trying.
Dundee, many thanks for the links. Why do the pages open fairly quickly from your links, but each page I try to open direct from the index takes forever? Technology! ;D
Maybe now I'll be able to find something about an Edward Tuckwell from Uxbridge.
Edward married a woman who appears in a rather unsavoury courtcase, and in the records she states she came from Tasmania with her then husband Benjamin Clegg. She has a child with Edward named as the father in 1851 but doesn't marry him till 1869. As for Benjamin Clegg, I can't find anything about him either, other than in the Family Links database.
Dee :)
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Hi
Where the hell is Uxbridge? Just tried to search on Freereg and without a county it wont search, Uxbridge doesn't show up on their county list.
mum mum
Just google it you idiot, Middlesex.
Still nothing on FreeReg
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Outskirts of London, last stop on the Piccadilly line ;D
Hillingdon, I think.
Debra :)
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try this, MM......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxbridge
Can't find anything on A******* as yet.
But there are several Tuckwell mentions for Uxbridge.
Dee :)
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Hi
How much information is on the SA certificates? What is his place of birth on the marriage certificate? Do you have his death certificate and does it give a time in the colonies or place of birth. The usual questions.
You say ther is no other record of Edward Tuckwell in Tassie after 1836, plenty of time for him to get to Sa by 1851.
What occupation was the SA Edward, if he was the same fellow my guess would be a labourer of some kind.
I can't find any births for Edward Tuckwell on Family search either.
mum mum
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Mum mum, South Australian certificates are very like English certificates, and have limited information on them. In fact, our indexes have almost as much as the actual certificate.
I've only discovered all this in the last couple of weeks when I confirmed that the Edward Tuckwell who was given as the father of the child Edward Tuckwell in 1851 was the right one. as there are two Edward Tuckwells having children called Edward Tuckwell in South Australia within a 9 year period. I have asked a friend who can access the microfiche images of certificates to check out Edward senior's marriage and death certs to see if they reveal any other information, but it is doubtful. His death certificate doesn't even name a relation. I have my fingers crossed though!
No idea of the occupation of Edward Tuckwell I'm trying to track, except that he was a labourer.
And there's nothing on F*P either!
Dee :)
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Familiar topic of trying to untangle the 2 Edward Tuckwells http://www.encounterbayfhg.org.au/the-dangers-of-online-trees :)
cheers,
Ros
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It looks like Benjamin CLEGG and his wife Mary (as recorded on manifest) arrived in Tasmania in 1843 on the ship Elizabeth Jane. They were from Doncaster in Yorkshire.
Child Susannah born in 1844 in Tasmania to Benjamin CLEGG and Ann LEE, and they were in SA by 1846 for the birth of son Benjamin.
The only thing wrong with this is that Benjamin CLEGG married Ann LEE in Doncaster in 1842, so the manifest must be incorrect.
Debra :)
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My Blog, Ros! ;) ;D ;D ;D
It looks like Benjamin CLEGG and his wife Mary (as recorded on manifest) arrived in Tasmania in 1843 on the ship Elizabeth Jane. They were from Doncaster in Yorkshire.
Child Susannah born in 1844 in Tasmania to Benjamin CLEGG and Ann LEE, and they were in SA by 1846 for the birth of son Benjamin.
The only thing wrong with this is that Benjamin CLEGG married Ann LEE in Doncaster in 1842, so the manifest must be incorrect.
Debra :)
Manifest needn't be wrong, Debra.......Ann lee married her third husband as Mary Ann Tuckwell, father John Lee.
That's a help.....seeing as the notorious Ann is my children's ggg-grandmother! Not sure they'll be happy to hear it though! ;D ;D ;D
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Yes I thought of the "Mary Ann" thing after I posted.
I wonder why she didn't actually tell the truth at the trial. She implies that Susannah was a babe in arms when they arrived, but she was definitely born in Tasmania. The ship arrived in Feb 1843 and Susannah's birth was registered in April 1844. They didn't have a baby onboard with them. Perhaps she wanted to avoid the possible stigma attached to being born in Tasmania.
Debra :)
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(Mary) Ann Lee seems to have been quite experienced in ignoring the truth.
;D
The following birth has me wondering.....is the mother in this one also the (Mary) Ann Lee in question?
Thomas CLEG born 12th May 1858 at McLaren Vale
Parents = Thomas Smithers CLEG & Ann LEE
Ref = Wil 13/508
I haven't found any other mention of a Thomas Smithers Cleg.
It's a maze to be untangled, this lot! ;D
Dee :)
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There's a Benn Clegg and a Benjamin Clegg in 1841 in Doncaster that are likely, the first aged 20 and the second 15. But ages were rounded down.
I'm going to order the marriage certificate for Benjamin Clegg and Ann Lee, as at the very least it will hopefully give me more information about Ann Lee's father. (Though I won't count on it!!!!)
Dee :)
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Sorry, I am not reading proper today. They came to SA from Tas. when Susannah was a babe in arms, not from England to Tas. :P
Debra :)
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Another kind Rootschatter reminded me of a BISA entry. I'd forgotten it as when I checked BISA it didn't seem to be connected with my Tuckwell family.
TUCKWELL Edward
Occupation = brickmaker
Married 20th December 1869 at Willunga SA to Mrs Ann CLIFF
Remembering that BISA entries are not always accurate, and substituting CLEGG for CLIFF, which it obviously was, it seems to me that Edward TUCKWELL, brickmaker, was Edward Tuckwell, brickmaker of Uxbridge who was transported to Tasmania for stealing hens! :D
Now....if only I could find out what happened to Benjamin Clegg! ;D ;D
Dee :)
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I can't find anything in the way of deaths for the husband Benjamin CLEGG but his name may have been mistranscribed on the indexes.
However he would possibly [hopefully] been deceased by 20 Dec 1869 when his wife married Edward TUCKWELL.
This could be the son Benjamin CLEGG who died in NSW in 1919 and is buried in the Broken Hill Cemetery. He was aged 71 years so born c1848. There are no parents named on his death reg.
Cando
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I wondered about that being the son Benjamin on the NSW Indexes, Cando. I've saved the reference in my bits and pieces file. :D
Dee :)
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On Ancestry Aus death index there is only one Benjamin CLEGG death reg in Aus. I only use it as a 'guide' ;D The age at death is quite close the age that Benjamin b. SA Perhaps he ventured to Broken Hill to the mines.
Broken Hill Cemetery, in case you don't have it
http://www.brokenhill.net.au/Cem.php
Cando
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Knowing what I know about this family, I wonder if Benjamin Clegg senior even came to South Australia from Tasmania. ::)
If he did, I don't think he stayed around too long.....the lure of gold maybe? I've ordered the English marriage certificate, but that's not going to help me sort them out here. :-\
Dee :)
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So Mary Ann ended up marrying an Elijah Brown?
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There is a marriage notice for Mary Ann Tuckwell and Elijah Brown 1873,
It states she is the relic of the late Edward Tuckwell of Maclaren Vale.
There is a death in 1870 of Edward Tuckwell in Maclaren Vale B 1805.
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Dear Me!
What a mess ???
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/36010309?searchTerm="benjamin clegg" &searchLimits=
Sue
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Sue all of this is known and it is from this and other articles about the same court case that the information about Mary Ann BROWN, formerly TUCKWELL and CLEGG nee LEE was confirmed. This case occurred 14 years after Edward's death at aged 65 years in 1870 at McLaren Vale.
Cheers
Cando
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Ah well, Perhaps it was known to some, but I obviously missed a step somewhere. It helped (in my case at least) to place the younger BENJAMIN GLEGG in 1884 to 1886
Has this been looked at at more closely? It may hold a clue to the man's identity.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchhits.aspx?table=Deceased Estates&ID=15&query=benjamin clegg&frm=0
Sue
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Ah well, Perhaps it was known to some, but I obviously missed a step somewhere. It helped (in my case at least) to place the younger BENJAMIN GLEGG in 1884 to 1886
Has this been looked at at more closely? It may hold a clue to the man's identity.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchhits.aspx?table=Deceased Estates&ID=15&query=benjamin clegg&frm=0
Sue
Reply#5
Sue the link to the search result does not work for me. Perhaps this one Dee
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
Deceased esate
CLEGG Benjamin
Broken Hill 2 Dec 1919 2 Mar 1920
On Ancestry Aus death index there is only one Benjamin CLEGG death reg in Aus. I only use it as a 'guide' ;D The age at death is quite close the age that Benjamin b. SA Perhaps he ventured to Broken Hill to the mines.
Broken Hill Cemetery, in case you don't have it
http://www.brokenhill.net.au/Cem.php
Cando
Cheers ;D
Cando
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Thanks folks. :)
I appreciate all your efforts.
The younger Benjamin story is not pleasant at all....and of no real connection except that it has actually led to me sorting out the past of Edward Tuckwell senior and Ann Lee, and throws more light on this totally disfunctional family of which Edward Tuckwell senior was a member.
I've added the information about Benjamin Clegg junior to my file of bits and pieces that may need to be followed up. At present I'm trying to sort out just how many children Ann Lee, mother of Edward, had.
I know she had
Susannah Clegg (Susan) in Tasmania in 1844 (Tasmanian Family Links)
Benjamin Clegg in South Australia in 1846 (BDM)
Edward (Lee) Tuckwell in South Australia in 1851 (BDM)
Mary Ann Clegg c1850 (S A Marriages) ....no birth found at this stage
and possibly
Thomas Cleg in South Australia in 1858....father given as Thomas Smithers Cleg (BDM)
I have no proof that Ann Lee Clegg actually arrived in South Australia with husband Benjamin.....apart from the fact he was named on Benjamin junior's birth registration.
Benjamin senior just "deserted her than died." ??? ::)
It's a tangle and a challenge.
Dee :)
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So Mary Ann ended up marrying an Elijah Brown?
That's right, Sue. :)
Dee :)
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A very good friend kindly went to SAGHS today and transcribed some relevant certificates for me.
There was not much more than in the indexes - no wonderful little notations, but several were interesting and relevant.
The 19 May 1846 birth of Benjamin Clegg (fiche 9 of 11, record 2701) listed the father Benjamin Clegg as a ploughman, and the informant as W H Clegg, a farmer residing at Reed Beds. The birth was registered on 29 June.
The 21 October 1851 birth of Edward Tuckwell was registered on 29 October, and listed his father Edward as a brickmaker.
The 1869 Edward Tuckwell marriage (fiche ref 281/1) listed him as a bachelor, and a brickmaker, with Ann Clegg as a widow, and both marked rather than signed.
Witnesses don't appear to have any relevance.
The 25 March 1885 birth of Thomas Henry Tuckwell (213/4) listed his father Thomas Tuckwell as a drover. The informant was M M Tuckwell, the mother, of Noarlunga, who marked with x. It was registered on 6 May, and entered at the Registry Office on 8 May.
My friend ran out of time and didn't get to see Edward Tuckwell senior's death certificate. He's going to do it sometime in the future for me.
I now off to try to find W H Clegg. :)
Dee :)
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Edward Tuckwell senior's death certificate didn't reveal anything more that was of help.
I'm now trying to decipher Ann Lee's marriage certificate to Benjamin Clegg from 1842 in Doncaster. ::) ;D
Dee :)
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That's a shame Dee...would have been helpful if his death cert had some useful info.
What about posting the snips of the 1842 cert you are having a problem with... ;D
Cando
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What about posting the snips of the 1842 cert you are having a problem with... ;D
Cando
They're on the deciphering board, Cando. :D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=611782.msg4609349;topicseen#msg4609349
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=611781.msg4609324;topicseen#msg4609324
Most unhelpfully, Benjamin Clegg's father was not given! ::)
Dee :)
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For anyone who is interested, there's now a thread running on the Common Room board mainly about Benjamin Clegg and Ann Lee, but also mentioning Edward Tuckwell.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=623695.msg4720150;topicseen#msg4720150
Dee :)
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If anyone is still following this thread and is interested, I have a great story about the marriage of Mary Ann Tuckwell and Elijah Brown from my 3xgreat grandfather's book. He was the minister who married them. Let me know if you'd like an excerpt.
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Hello Mystorian,
I would love the excerpt about the story of Mary Ann Tuckwell's (previously Clegg, born Lee) marriage to Elijah Brown. I have been working on her story and that of Edward Tuckwell for many years.
Will PM you my email address.
Many thanks,
Dee :)
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I have to thank Mystorian who has very kindly emailed the relevant pages of the book to me. I have to say that they make hilarious reading. I can't thank her enough for sharing.
Oh what a story there is about this family! ;D ;D ;D
Dee :)
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You are so welcome Dee, glad you have enjoyed them :)
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I have to thank Mystorian who has very kindly emailed the relevant pages of the book to me. I have to say that they make hilarious reading. I can't thank her enough for sharing.
Oh what a story there is about this family! ;D ;D ;D
Dee :)
I am not in any way related to this family but would really like to read what it says re the marriage. And anything about the family and their goings on. I've read the Scavenger Hunt and this thread about them and think they're very interesting.