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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: David Layne on Thursday 26 July 12 22:12 BST (UK)
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The photograph below was a part of the memorabilia kept by my father after the war.
I can find no record of a Prouter at either of the squadrons my father served in or in the POW camps my father was in.
I am in hope that someone can identify this pilot for me.
Regards, David.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DavidLayne/raf%20items/img013.jpg)
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DavidLayne/raf%20items/img014.jpg)
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I think the first letter is a C not a P
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I thank you for your suggestion however I cannot find a Crouter on the Air Force POW list or in the 97 Squadron or 50 Squadron orbs.
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I think it starts Crow and my initial thought was Crowther but I think the last letter is possibly an N
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He could be RAF VR looks like the small VR badges on his collar.
Ady
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CaroleW I cannot get any of those suggestions to match up and still feel it is Prouter.
mmm45 I think you are correct that is a VR badge.
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You might be able to crack this problem brute-force by browsing surnames in the published Air Force Lists - would work for officer, not other ranks, but would be tedious!
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Well I think that it something along the lines of P Rouleh.
I did wonder if he was eastern european but I think he would have a Poland shoulder flash? The writing is not classic English cursive script but it isn't classic Polish script either.
He's definitely a flying officer RAFVR.
Sorry if I muddy the waters further.
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That name looks to me like ProuteN - a good old IoW name. Any help?
Alan
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Toughest one so far, David. As suggested by an earlier post, I have been hammering at the Air Force Lists for 1943 and 1945 (already did the full POW list), but haven't been able to marry up any appropriate candidates yet.
My feeling is that it was taken at a POW camp just from the sparse surroundings and quality.
One of the permutations I have been trying is names names ending with a "Y* (true, that flourish at the end may just be an affectation, but my gut says otherwise).
Like diplodicus, I also think we may be looking at an initial and surname, rather than just the surname.
However, I think he is a P/O - the stripe doesn't look thick enough for a F/O.
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I feel sure in my own mind that the name is Prouter, that's what I remember as a child.
I'm not so sure about the picture being taken in a POW camp, the subject looks too "clean" to me.
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OK here's my two pen'orth.
Flying Officer VR. I believe the name is Prouten rather than Prouter.
Although sparse the furnishings appear too good for POW situation. Well made chair, rounded edge of the table, and possibly a radio just beyond his right shoulder, also what may well be his side cap with polished badge next to it. His top button appears also to be polished. He may well be in "best blue", note the well pressed lapel on the jacket and the overall smartness of his appearance. I would suggest that this man may be an instructor at an OTU etc.
The scratchings on the walls behind him are reminiscent of the graffiti often seen in temporary buildings of wartime bases.
I could be well wide of the remark of course but, the more I study the photo, the more detail there seems to be, leading me to the opinion I've set out above.
Unfortunately this does not get us any nearer to identifying this man....or does it?
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P Boulter?
No decorations or campaign ribbons?
The thick plottens!
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Your observation Diplodicus, on the abscence of medal ribbons is what lead me to suggest that our man might be an instructor at an OTU. Not all aircrew instructors were operational types who had been "screened". Some were, early in their flying careers, selected to be instructors and several,despite all their efforts, were not able to persuade the powers that be to post them to operational flying.
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If he had just arrived as a student at an OTU he wouldn't have medal ribbons would he?
He appears to be holding a fountain pen. Fountain pens and nibs were not allowed to be sent to POW's in next of kin parcels.
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He appears to be holding a fountain pen. Fountain pens and nibs were not allowed to be sent to POW's in next of kin parcels.
????
I have seen several mentions of POWs using fountain pens, including complaining about ones stolen etc or used to barter. MI19 even hid escape material in fountain pens sent out to the camps.
Examples of fountain pen escape material:
http://www.compassmuseum.com/esc/esc.htm
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That's interesting sheldonesque and seems just the opposite to this which is posted on the I.W.M. website.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DavidLayne/P%20O%20W/NextofKin.png)
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That particular notice is specifically for family packages. The BRCC and various other charities had more latitude as to what they could send. For example, we know that POWs received cigarettes, despite that notice saying it was prohibited to be sent by family. Another restriction on families was the sending of books, but organisations like YMCA sent out thousands. Even universities sent of course materials and books for degree courses.
MI9 didn't actually send their escape material through the RC. Instead they used fictitious charities.
So fountain pens were very much in evidence in POW camps (not that I am insisting that the above picture was taken in POW camp :) ).
But I must admit my mistake....when i replied to you earlier, I failed to pick up the fact that you had specifically said next-of-kin parcels. I read it just as POW parcels in general. My error. Sorry.
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Thanks, you are obviously very knowledable. Now lets get this name figured out!
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Still off topic but of interest. The "Next Of Kin" leaflet makes no sense as in letters to my mother my father instructed her "to canvass all my friends for cigarettes they have so many uses" or words to that effect.
Below is a listing my father kept for 5 months while at Heydekrug and Fallingbostel.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DavidLayne/P%20O%20W/img075.jpg)
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How about G or P Roulier?
Sandy
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That name looks to me like ProuteN - a good old IoW name. Any help?
Alan
Well done Alan it is indeed Prouten. And from the Isle of Wight.
From CWGC.......
PROUTEN, KENNETH
Rank:Flight SergeantTrade:Air BomberService No:1322305Date of Death:29/12/1943Age:20Regiment/Service:Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve 61 Sqdn. Grave Reference9. B. 5.CemeteryBERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of Reginald Alfred and Kathleen Ellen Prouten, of Lake, Isle of Wight.
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Hi David,
The name is not a new one to me though only recently come across. I grew up in Lake and Ken, I've discovered, went to all the schools I eventually did. I'll PM you if I may.
Alan
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ok
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If he was a flight sergeant when he was killed, how can he be the one in an officer's uniform?
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If he was a flight sergeant when he was killed, how can he be the one in an officer's uniform?
Trying to sort that one out!
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An internet friend sent me this picture of Kenneth Prouten.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q137/DavidLayne/kenprouten.jpg)
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I think ??? these are two different people. The ears are different?
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I have identified this airman as Bernard Twilley a friend of my parents from Grantham.
A copy of the photograph I have appears in a book in French titled "Bernard Mark Twilley le "Goose Volant" de Grantham" written by Eddy Daivier, as it is in French and I don't understand that language I had neglected to look in that book!
Twilley was operating with 51 Squadron flying Halifax NP934 when lost on 18 December 1944. Twilley sent cigarettes to my father when he was a POW.
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Hi David,
Glad you got it sorted finally. :) Curious about the French book.
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It's a lovely little book, published by the author. I wish I could read it, especially as my dad's picture is in it and a little about him. Perhaps if I post it in French someone will translate.
Bernard debute une formation de pilote en Aout 1941, ce qui l'entraine au Canada. Ken accepte peut etre plus modestement un role de sergent dans uni unite de radar. A Grantham, vit egalement un autre pilote de bombardier (Henry Layne) qui, pour sa part, a termine la guerre en
Allemange apres avoir ete abattu le 23 September 1943. Via la croix rouge, Bernard achemine regulierement du tabac pour cet homme eloigne des siens. Bernard respire tout simplement la generosite.
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How amazing! If you scroll down to the earlier post in this thread showing the list of cigarettes received, the name "Twilley" appears as a sender of more than one parcel!
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Indeed he did.