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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: lynne j on Wednesday 25 July 12 10:22 BST (UK)
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can anyone tell me why a probate would be 12 years after death this is what i have so far
my g g grandad william taylor born 1825 essex died 1858 bishop auckland primrose hill
death certificate 16th may 1858 primrose hill william taylor age 34 accidentally run over by railway engine on the wear valley both arms broken lived 25 days so accident happened aprill 21st
darlington newspaper aprill 1858 a man had his hand cut off on railway a man named william taylor who was lying drunk on the line between witton park and auckland was run over by no 12 engine and had hand cut off
taylor is a married man with a family of5 children surely this narrow escape will prove a warning not only to taylor but to all who like him indulge themselves with the bottle
the article in this paper was before he died I am wondering if anything was in news paper after death
the next thing i found on anx
probate 19th august 1870 died 16th may 1858 william taylor late of primrose hill bishop auckland
cinder drawer deceased were granted to mary smith wife of david smith formerly taylor widow of bishop auckland the relict of the said deceased (i have mary taylor nee topping marriage cert she married david smith march1861)
lynnej
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Could be a variety of reasons
Ihad a will of 1811 - probate granted in 1811
But it was left unadministered for 41 years and a second administration was granted in 1852
I believe of the two original administrators only one could read
The daughter could not read and admin was delayed until after her death
There can be a variety of reasons and people can have two or more administrations
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to be honest I wouldnt have thought he would have any money to leave
It surprised me when i found the probate under £450 00 it was a lot of money then
i have been in touch with university of durham but they do not have anything on this
where could the money have come from
ive never been able to find the marriage of william taylor and mary topping so i was hoping maybe this would give some info unless they never married
lynnej
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In some instances probate can take as little as 1 month but in exceptional cases can take many years.
Prior to a change in legislation in the 19c it could go on indefinately - remember Bleak House?
Sometimes if a will was written long before the person died and never updated that can cause problems if anyone mentioned in the will has subesquently died and thier descendants need to be found.
Had this with a g/aunts will and hers had been updated just a year before she died, but when updating it she never considered that one of the 'children' mentioned was probably also dead at the time.
So although updating a will is good, it is often a good idea to look at bequests to consider who you are leaving them to..
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can anyone tell me why a probate would be 12 years after death
As you say probate, rather than administration, there was a will & for that to be put into effect probate was required. Reasons for the delay could be as simple as that the will only came to light then (perhaps left for safe-keeping with someone who wasn't aware he'd died).
Otherwise I'd guess that perhaps the will was written between the accident & his death & that perhaps his widow wasn't aware that formal probate was needed until some much later event. Perhaps he had an interest in some land/property that was being sold/transferred c1870 such that it was then realised that the legal formalities had not been gone through & were now necessary.
The under £450 figure - these values vary at different times, but seem usually to be below limits for certain taxes that would be due at the time of death.
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this is a quite interesting link about probate records in family history
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/family-history
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hi thank you for the link had a look and its very helpful it did say on anx principal registry
does this mean a copy would be held at york and would it tell me a bit more than what ive read
lynnej
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short answer I don't know. If theres a copy of the will on file it would give you more info in regards how much he actually had - or possibly how (sale of property etc). I would have thought that if there was a reason why there was a 12 year gap there might be notes on the probate but obviously you won't know until you see paperwork. If Anx have it down as a York record then I would assume that is who holds it - unless you live locally I'd personally I'd be more inclined to take the postal search option and give them everything you know ... possibly even ask why they think they'd be a 12 year gap - but obviously you'll have to pay
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I have an ancestor where the will was not activated until many years after his death, when his wife died - prsumably not found until then, or not considered important.
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I have a will where the man had married a much younger wife, his will stated the money goes to his brother to look after and pay his widow an annual amount till she died. The brother died and his son(who was due to inherit) became impatient and tried to go through the courts to say the marriage settlement was not valid. The case went on for 47 years and went to chancery! the only winner in this case were the barristers as the inheritance was whittled down to a third of the original amount :(
The widow ? She held on and lived to 92 and outlived all of them still claiming the annual amount as part of her marriage settlement ;D
The will was obviously written while his son was was very young (he was given a cash settlement). If the son had been allowed to administer the will then the estate would have been kept intact and settle much quicker, though there was still ownership of land leases to sort out.
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Hi wills are so complicated ,trouble is I dont know who williams family are to look at previous wills
I have been looking for his marriage to mary topping born 1823 from wigton cumbria for 5 years now
all he has on the 1851 census in wigton is born 1825 essex then he died 1858 bishop auckland
my great grandad benjamin phillip taylor williams son was born 1856 hamsterly
on the 1861 cenus primrose hill bishop auckland after william died mary and sons are down as smith and not taylor
this was a census error, one of william and marys sons was born 1850 orsett essex
so really im stuck until i find who williams father is and his family in essex
im hoping if i purchase this probate it might give me something to go on
lynnej
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Hi i also have a question re probate. i see My aunty Lavinia Fox .. widow of Charles Montague Fox was not mentioned in the probate pages . Her husband died leaving 84.000 pounds wow. :o :o but the probate says several directors names and nothing about her . She live d for another 20 years. does this mean she didnt inherit ??
thanks Fred
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Fred, the names mentioned in the Probate calendars are the administrators. You need to apply to York for the will to find out the details
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/family-history
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Lynne,
do you have the birth cert for Benjamin Phillip Taylor to confirm his mother's maiden name matches up with her second marriage cert?
I think the best you can hope for is that a sibling is named, this gives you something else to go on. Unfortunately the name Taylor (or various spellings) is one of those difficult names to research :-\
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Hi yes i have purchased all five birth certificates
alfred taylor 1846 carlisle george 1848 leeds william 1850 orsett essex joseph 1854 carlise benjamin phillip 1856 hamsterly
they all have father william taylor mam mary taylor formerly topping i purchased marys second marriage to david smith 1861 mary taylor widow age 37,residence etherley lane
father joseph topping
after 5 years really i should give up ive traced marys ancestors but no chance for william
i did ask for help on the essex look ups they seem to think william born 1825 orsett to william hanking taylor and charlotte brenner all the names of siblings are the same but without marriage i have no proof
lynnej
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Doesn't help that they move around does it :-\
So the first child was born Carlisle....
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Thing is, I'm doubtful they married when you are expecting them to have (if at all!)
Have you persued this route yet?
There is a marriage for Mary Topping in Wigton
Mar qtr 1839 vol 25 page 125
7 people listed
there is a groom missing off the list but I doubt if its William as I think he is still down in Essex in 1841. If you can match up the other 3 couples, then you might find out who was Mary's first husband and then look for the second marriage.
ps
*** from the above marriage search, you can discount Joseph Lowes, married Ann Robinson***
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I have bought this certificate wrong one also bought another 2 in carlisle maybe they never got married
spent loads of money on wrong certificates for this family i mean toppings and taylors loads of them
lynnej
would mary have to prove in court that she was married to william taylor to claim any money
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I doubt it unless there was someone objecting
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In what way was the marriage certs you have bought wrong?
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sorry had to go and hunt them out found 2 of them
feb 5th 1839 mary topping maried robert nicholson but her father was william topping
25th dec 1845 mary married john milburn dixon a gentleman she is right age 23 and father a joseph topping but in 1861 census this mary was still with john milburn dixon
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well Mary Topping would have been very young and Robert Nicholson was even younger, they may not have told the complete truth when marrying unless her father was a witness to the marriage! Robert is back home in 1841 as was Mary.
Roll onto 1849
Dec 1849
Pontefract Vol 22 page 427
Moody Thomas
Nicholson Mary <<<<
Taylor William <<<<
Wright Mary