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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: DavidJ1952 on Tuesday 24 July 12 11:47 BST (UK)
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Hello,
My Jones family of Thomas and Phoebe Jones owned a Tailor/Mercers/Drapers shop at 4 Cotham Rd Kew, Vic. from (I think) 1897 to around 1910. This info via Sands and McDougall.
I have found various photographs taken of the locality adress, opposite Kew P.O,
any further information much appreciated.
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There is a digitised service document for a Frederick Thomas JONES with mother Phoebe available for viewing online at www.naa.gov.au
JONES Frederick Thomas
SERN 268
POB Wholwichampton England
POE Melbourne VIC
NOK M Jones Phoebe
Occupation Tailors Cutter.
Leanne
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Thanks Leanne
That is the WW1 service record of my Uncle Frederick Thomas Jones, Tailors Cutter, who at enlistment in 1915 lived at 208 RAE St. N.Fitzroy
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David,
Are you searching for information about the family or only about the shop?
Sue
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Another thread about the same family with link to previous threads
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,607954.0.html
Cando
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There are lots of interesting ads for the shop coming soon (not yet digitised satisfactorily)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?sortby=dateAsc&q=%22jones+%26+co+tailors+kew%22~4&s=20
regards,
Ros
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And this about a Thomas Jones tailor in Kew in 1889 and his stock being sold as part of his estate. This shop seemed to have been in Main St Kew.
Not sure if this is relevant ???
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?sortby=dateAsc&q=%22thomas+jones+tailors+kew%22~4
regards,
Ros
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This is not a deceased estate but a bankrupt's estate and assets to be sold to pay his creditors.
Cando
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Thanks Cando :) I should learn to read properly ... ;D
cheers,
Ros
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Me too ;) I went searching for his Will ::) ::)
Cando
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My Jones family of Thomas and Phoebe Jones owned a Tailor/Mercers/Drapers shop at 4 Cotham Rd Kew, Vic. from (I think) 1897 to around 1910. This info via Sands and McDougall.
An entry in the S & M directory does not mean the person at a particular address owned the property. You would have to do a title search.
A final dividend for an insolvent Frederick Thomas JONES of 4 Cotham Road, Kew in 1909
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Thank you all so much, ...fascinating.
Yes Sue, ...any information relevant, whether about the shop or family.
Ros, ..thank you. I always end up with a giant headache after searching Trove !!
I don't know why they would have advertised in the Box Hill Reporter, being so far from Kew Junction., ..but this is my family at 4 Cotham Rd, I can't wait to see those adverts !!
I would be inclined to think this is the same Thomas Jones, maybe selling up to finance the family's trip to NZ in 1891-2??
According to S&M, the family lived at 152 Bulleen Road Kew, (renamed in 1890 to High St) prior to their trip to NZ, so I would think that it would be commonplace to call the street Main St, at that time.
So, ..Thomas Jones died 16 April 1905 from Bronchial Phneumonia, also from frequenting the Skinny Dog Hotel (across the road) a little too often, leaving eldest son Frederick to manage the shop until it went belly up in 1909. The family seems to have split up after that.
My father went on to his own successful clothing manufacturing business in Flinders' Lane Melbourne a few years later, but I have little info about that either.
Thomas and family arrived aboard the Gulf of Venice at Melbourne 25 May 1884, I have no further info as their whereabouts until my father Charles was born 15 Feb 1888
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I would be inclined to think this is the same Thomas Jones, maybe selling up to finance the family's trip to NZ in 1891-2??
He would have been declared insolvent and his assets assigned and now they were being sold as part of his trust estate.
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Frederick Thomas JONES was declared insolvent again in 1929 when he was living in Red Cliffs and as you know he died there in 1933 when he was only 47 years old. His death was registered at Mildura.
Argus 25 May 1929
NEW INSOLVENTS
Frederick Thomas Jones, of Red Cliffs, tailor. Cause of insolvency : — Inability to collect money due to him, slackness in business, pressure of creditors, and inability to obtain credit for materials to carry on business. Liabilities, £485 ; assets, £64/19/. deficiency, £370/10/.
On the 1924 electoral roll he and his wife, Ethel Elsa Evelyn were living at 37 Lemon Avenue, Mildura and his occupation, tailor's cutter. Ethel died 18 Aug 1967 and her death was registered at Maryborough however she had been living at Avoca for a number of years. She was aged 68 years and is buried in the Avoca Cemetery. Her maiden name was HARDY and she was born in 1899 at Moonabel.
Cando
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The Box Hill Reporter was (obviously ::) )distributed throughout the Box Hill area. Box Hill is only 8km from Kew which is on the direct route from Box Hill to the city by road, passing through Mont Albert, Balwyn, Deepdene, Auburn and then Kew. I assume there would have been some kind of public transport in 1906, although the tram from the city was not extended to Mont Albert until about 1916.
Cheers, Judith
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Thanks Cando
Fred was a gunner in 50 Battery, 13th Field Artillery at the battle of Fromelles, 19-20 July 1916, ..having suffered real and imagined injuries during that and subsequent conflicts I would surmise that post war day to day living would have been difficult at best., although I have no info post war re his injuries, other than being gassed in 1917.
So, .. his death at age 50 (September Quarter 1883, somehow his age is wrong on his memorial stone in Avoca cemetry) was most likely caused by war injuries. There is an inherited family blood disorder which may have been a cause.
I had only scanty info about Mildura, although I have a suspicion Frederick and Ethel, and his niece Edna may have been involved in a clothing shop there.
I guess the family would have advertised in other papers of the time in that locality, not just the Box Hill Reporter. I would think that local papers specific to the Kew area of that period would have survived somewhere. The family lived all their lives here.
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Yes I did read Frederick T's digitised WW1 file on the NAA website. No injuries noted on his file
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=1817504&S=4&T=R
Death
JONES Frederick Thomas
Father Thomas Mother Phoebe UNKNOWN
At Mildura 47 years 1933 Reg#12987
David I can only transcribe information available from the death indexes. Are you sure he is actually buried at Avoca and not Mildura? His name is on the headstone but as you mentioned, perhaps memorialised only.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Avoca.htm
Fairly expensive to transport bodies even in the 1930's and Avoca is not on the main rail link to Melbourne from Mildura....and they had been having financial problems only 4 years prior to his death. Aren't you curious to know what he died from? I like to know what caused my ancestors' deaths....all adds to the family history. The certificate would also give his usual residence at time of death.
Perhaps his age was taken from their marriage cert and people are not always honest with their ages...especially when marrying a younger woman. He was born 1883 and Ethel 1899 so when they married in 1922 he would have been c39 and she 23. Perhaps he dropped a few years of his age ;)
Birth
HARDY Ethel Elsa Evylan [sic]
Father James Brewer Mother Margaret Jane PEACOCK
At Moonambel 1899 Reg#20725
Australian Electoral Roll -
1909
JONES Frederick Thomas 27 Cotham Road, Kew Cutter
1924
JONES Frederick Thomas 37 Lemon Avenue, Mildura Tailor's cutter
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn 37 Lemon Avenue, Mildura HD
1931
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn 90 Peel Street, Kew HD
JONES Frederick Thomas 90 Peel Street, Kew Cutter
1936, 1937
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn Leibig Street, Avoca HD
1943
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn 174 Bank Street, South Melbourne HD
1949
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn 1121 Nepean Highway, Highett HD
1963
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn Leibig Street, Avoca HD
Cheers
Cando
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I guess the family would have advertised in other papers of the time in that locality, not just the Box Hill Reporter. I would think that local papers specific to the Kew area of that period would have survived somewhere.
In 1888 Kew’s first local Newspaper,The Mercury was published. This was followed by The Kew Sentinel.
The Kew Mercury 1888 - 1911 on microform at the State Library of Victoria.
http://www2.slv.vic.gov.au/about/using/guides/resources/newspapers/vic_k.html
Cando
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I did some sluething a couple of years back, ...starting with death info in Digger,
but I don't have the actual certificate yet.
This was sent to me by Mildura Genealogical Society;
According to a report in the Sunrasia Daily of 14th March 1933, Fred died of pleurisy and pneumonia, and is buried at Mildura.
Thank you for those electoral roll addresses, according to Digger, Ethel died at Marysville 1967 ?
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Hope you don't mind me correcting you...it is the Sunraysia Daily :)
I previously mentioned that Ethel's death was registered at Maryborough as I interpret the abbev MARY to be that.....and not far from Avoca. Perhaps she died in hospital there. You would need to see the death cert for information.
Death
JONES Ethel Elsa Evelyn
Father Hardy James Mother Margaret Jan PEACOCK
At Maryborough 68 years 1967 Reg#19804
Well you at least you know his cause of death :)
Cheers
Cando
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...Kew....The family lived all their lives here.
Postal Directory 1888
JONES Thomas Bulleen Road, Kew Tailor
S & M 1892
JONES Thomas 152 High Street, Kew Tailor
S & M 1896
JONES Thomas 23 High Street, Kew Tailor
Australian Electoral Roll
1903
JONES Thomas 1 High Street, Kew Tailor
JONES Phoebe 1 High Street, Kew HD
1909
JONES Charles Llewellyn 27 Cotham Road, Kew Cutter
JONES Ellen Maud 27 Cotham Road, Kew Tailoress
JONES Frederick 27 Cotham Road, Kew Cutter
JONES Phoebe 27 Cotham Road, Kew HD
1914
JONES Charles Llewellyn 7 McKay Street, Richmond Tailor's cutter
JONES Isabella 7 McKay Street, Richmond HD
COSTELLO Ellen Maud Waterdale Road, Ivanhoe HD
COSTELLO Ivan John Joseph Waterdale Road, Ivanhoe Tailor
1919
JONES Dorothy Winifred 208 Rae Street, North Fitzroy Tailoress
JONES Phoebe 208 Rae Street, North Fitzroy HD
JONES Charles Llewellyn 333 Sydney Road, Brunswick Tailor
JONES Isabella 333 Sydney Road, Brunswick HD
COSTELLO Ellen Maud 1 Howard Street, Brunswick HD
COSTELLO Ivan John Joseph 1 Howard Street, Brunswick Tailor
EARL Edwin Sampson John 1 Bowen Street, Kew Reporter
EARL Emma Gertrude 1 Bowen Street, Kew HD
Ivan COSTELLO was a partner in business Hartley, Costello & Jones [business premises Brunswick] according to an item in the Argus in 1923 when he, Ivan was in court for assaulting a railway porter. The case was dismissed.
1924
JONES Dorothy Winifred 80 Glenora Ave, Coburg Tailoress
JONES Phoebe 80 Glenora Ave, Coburg HD
JONES Charles Llewellyn 333 Sydney Road, Brunswick Tailor
JONES Isabella 333 Sydney Road, Brunswick HD
COSTELLO Ellen Maud 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe HD
COSTELLO Ivan John Joseph 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe Tailor
EARL Edwin Sampson John 14 Henry Street, Kew Reporter - to 1954
EARL Emma Gertrude 14 Henry Street, Kew HD - to 1954
1931
COSTELLO Ellen Maud 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe HD
COSTELLO Ivan John Joseph 273 Royal Parade, Parkville Tailor
1936
COSTELLO Ellen Maud 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe HD
COSTELLO Ivan John Joseph 22 The Avenue, Parkville Tailor ['til death at 10 The Avenue]
COSTELLO Myrtle Florence 22 The Avenue Parkville Manufacturer ['til death at 10 The Avenue]
1931, 1936
JONES Charles Llewellyn 28 Namur Street, Kew East Manufacturer
JONES Dorothy Winifred 28 Namur Street, Kew East HD
JONES Phoebe 28 Namur Street, Kew East HD
1937
COSTELLO Ellen Maud 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe HD and in 1972 at 2/147 Marshall Street, Ivanhoe HD
JONES Dorothy Winifred 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe Tailoress
JONES Phoebe 7 Carn Street, Ivanhoe HD
JONES Charles Llewellyn 150 Barkers Road, Hawthorn Manufacturer
1943, 1949, 1963, 1972
JONES Dorothy Winifred 21 Belford Avenue Kew East Tailoress
1943
JONES Charles Llewellyn 28 Namur Street Kew East Manufacturer
1954, 1963
JONES Charles Llewellyn 323 Whitehorse Road, Balwyn Manufacturer
JONES Phoena 323 Whitehorse Road, Balwyn HD
1968
JONES Charles Llewellyn 88 Nelson Road, Box Hill No occupation
JONES Pheona 88 Nelson Road, Box Hill and to limit of online rolls, at this address
Cando
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Postal Directory 1915
JONES Phoebe 47 Lithgow Avenue, Abbotsford
and this advertisement in 1934 -
Charles L. Jones, ot 28 Namur street, East Kew, hereby announce that I Will Not be Responsible for any debts contracted In my name without my written authority.
cando
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Gosh, ...So many familiar names and addresses from the past, that I had long forgotten, and so many blanks filling in. Thank you so much, Cando
Isabella, nee Robertson, eventually was admitted to Mont Park Mental Hospital, apparently unable to cope with my father Charles' later business and social success. She stayed there for some 50 odd years, my father marrying my mother Phoena in 1939. Nothing was ever spoken of Isabella, ...It was assumed that she had died. In 1984 I was astounded to find out from my half sister that she had in fact died earlier that year.
I have long had a suspicion that Isabella was in some way related to MacPherson Robertson of MacRobertson Chocolate fame.
Emma Gertrude Earl (Jones) and Ellen Maud Costello (Jones) both married on the same day, 5th April 1913
Edwin Earl became a proof reader with the Melbourne Age.
Ellen and Ivan Costello divorced in September 1926.
Would Myrtle Florence Costello be Ivan's sister ?
From around 1943 to 1949 Charles and Phoena lived at Horsham, Vic, and ran a clothing manufacturing business in Firebrace Street, returning to Balwyn in 1950.
The 1934 Advertisement 'Charles L Jones etc' could most likely refer to debts incurred by his son in law Harold Lockett, although he and Edna Jones did not marry until 1935. I have vague memories of talk about bad business deals and loans during those years.
Would Hartley, Costello and Jones have been a tailoring business connected with Charles Jones ? I have a suspicion my father had a business in Brunswick at some stage.
Could you see from what years Charles and Isabella lived at 12 Tower Street East Hawthorn ? During this time he had a clothing manufacturing business in Flinders Lane, with over 100 machinists and staff.
Thanks again,
David
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Isabella, nee Robertson, eventually was admitted to Mont Park Mental Hospital, apparently unable to cope with my father Charles' later business and social success. She stayed there for some 50 odd years, my father marrying my mother Phoena in 1939. Nothing was ever spoken of Isabella, ...It was assumed that she had died. In 1984 I was astounded to find out from my half sister that she had in fact died earlier that year.
I have long had a suspicion that Isabella was in some way related to MacPherson Robertson of MacRobertson Chocolate fame.
David I had actually found quite a lot but wondered should I post it considering Charles and Phoenix Canariensis Rebecca MUSSON were your parents. They married in 1942. Yes I found Isabella's death at Mont Park. How sad she was there for 50 years.
JONES Isabella
Father Robertson James Mother Isabella
At Mont Park 95 years 1984 Reg#27896
Cremation record at Springvale
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/page-o7155220-en.html
What a pity her mother's maiden name is not detailed on the death index.
This could be her birth - there were two siblings.
ROBERTSON Isabella
Father James Mother Isabella HOWIE
At Essendon 1890 Reg#3086
Only their marriage certificate would confirm the info.
Isabella's father James ROBERTSON according to the marriage index was born in Scotland.
Marriage
ROBERTSON James born Scotland
HOWIE Isabella born Victoria
1888 Reg#7168
Death
ROBERTSON Isabella
Father Howie James Mother Mary PURYER
At Prahran 74 years 1945 Reg#313
I can't see the connection with Sir Mcpherson Frederick ROBERTSON. His father David was Irish and his mother Margaret BROWN, Scottish and McPherson was born at Ballarat in 1859. He did not have a brother James. He had three brothers, Richard who died in 1879 and Ernest and Howard who were involved in the confectionary business.
My ggrandmother purchased the Grandview Hotel on the corner of Heidelberg Road and Station Street, Fairfield in July 1903 and and Macpherson ROBERTSON and his wife Elizabeth lived at 19 Station Street. They married in 1886. I can remember my grandmother b.1885 talking about her younger sister b.1890 and the ROBERTSON girls. They attended the same school. Her younger sister travelled overseas with the ROBERTSON's and I think one of the daus was studying at the Melbourne Conservatorium at the same time as my aunt. When my grandmother told me stories of the family I am embarrassed to admit I thought she was 'stretching' things a bit however I later found letters etc which supported her stories. Queen of Trivia my family call me at times :P
From around 1943 to 1949 Charles and Phoena lived at Horsham, Vic, and ran a clothing manufacturing business in Firebrace Street, returning to Balwyn in 1950.
The only electoral rolls are for the election years 1943 and 1949. They were obviously back in Melbourne before the close of rolls prior to the Federal election on 10 Dec 1949.
1949
JONES Charles Llewellyn 323 Whitehorse Road, Balwyn
JONES Phoena 323 Whitehorse Road, Balwyn
Cheers
Cando
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Would Hartley, Costello and Jones have been a tailoring business connected with Charles Jones ? I have a suspicion my father had a business in Brunswick at some stage.
I would think so. The address for Charles at 333 Sydney Road, Brunswick would surely be a business. It is a shop. The building looks as though it would have been there in 1933.
Would Myrtle Florence Costello be Ivan's sister ?
I can't find a marriage in Victoria but they may have married post 1942. This could be her death.
COSTELLO Myrtle Florence
Father:Warner Thomas Mother Annie Elizabeth
At Bulleen 84 years 1980 Reg#19877
and his
COSTELLO Ivan John
Father John Francis Mother Mary Ann TREVENA
At Brunswick 76 years 1964 Reg#5982
I have just had a google for McPherson ROBERTSON and some sources say his father was born in Uruguay of Scottish parents. I guess you would have to purchase some certificates to to find out the truth. Information on the net always needs further research. :)
Bedtime for me :)
Cando
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Yes, so Ivan Costello must have remarried.
Charles and Phoena marriage 1942 ? Yes. ...I knew that too. (was a little bit sleepy !)
AND, ...that is another story !!
I have nothing to link MacRob with Isabella, other than a book that has been in our family since the year dot; 'A Young Man and a Nail Can', ...a pictorial hardbound lavishly illustrated book produced by MacRobertson in the '20s, and also a pictorial booklet covering the MacRobertson sponsored air race of 1934.
As I have found more about my father's business success in the '20s I have admittedly assumed there was some connection.
At Tower St (now Tower Place), there was an upstairs ball room, a private carpark and a croquet lawn. MacRobertson also played croquet. He had a preferance for Packard cars, ..My dad had a '26 or '28 Packard limousine, as well as a model A ford Town car. Charles Jones was well into musical evenings, choral groups etc, was a freemason, (a founding master of the now defunct Lodge of Aspiration), played golf tournaments all over Vic and NSW, (despite having contracted poliomyelitis at age 5), and was generally a man about town. They both had long connections with Kew, MacRob is buried in Kew cemetry. There are a few Jones' there also.
I think all this success is what tipped Isabella off the edge. I have found that her father James was also living at 12 Tower St untill his death.
So, ...other than that, the only link I can think up is that Charles Jones, (whose trading name was C L Jones P/L), could have been as MacRobertson's tailor. (white suits).
Must have been working from the Brunswick address at that time.
I have found a notice in the Argus 17 July 1918, ...'ANA Competitions, ... Baritone or Bass solo, C L Jones, Brunswick'.
The only reference to C L Jones' CBD business came later in the Argus from 1930, to 1937, there are a few advertisements from; 118 Flinder's Lane, Manchester Unity Building, Anterim House, Majorca House and 232 Flinder's Lane.
This first ad in particular is rather moving;
Charles owned a Gloria Triumph from 1934 to 1951, don't know why he wanted to sell it.
Ps, Mum turned 100 in Feb !!
Regards,
David