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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: grantleydawn on Monday 23 July 12 08:08 BST (UK)

Title: 1420 Will in Latin - COMPLETED
Post by: grantleydawn on Monday 23 July 12 08:08 BST (UK)
I need help to complete the transcription of this 1420 will.

Can anyone please help me with the words in red?

Feel free to correct anything that I have wrong.

Regards
Grantley

line 1 It’m lego p[ro] CC missis celebrand’ ante diem sepulture mee xvj s. viij d. It’m lego Rob’to filio meo duas zonas
line 2 argente stipatas et totam Armatura meam. It’m lego Rob’to filio meo unu’ ciphus argenteu’ et deauratre cu’ uno
line 3 coop[er]torio coop[er]to et uno p[ar]vo lavacro argent’ et deaurat post decessu Elisabeth matris sue It’m lego eid’m Rob’to
line 4 post decessu di’e matris sue unu’ missale unu’ palice et unu’ par’ vestimentors cu’ toto apparatu’ ad missa’ celeb’ndus
line 5 It’m lego tribus filiabus meus scil[ice]t cuilibet earum uno ciphus argenteu’ cum coop[er]torijs seduo distre coem Elisabeth uxor
line 6 meas. It’m do et lego di’e Elisabeth uxor mee Joh’i WASSE Willi’us HUDDISFELD Joh’i COUPE rectori ecclie de penne
line 7 sum’a t[er]ras et ten’ redditus et s[er]vicia ac rev[er]siones om’i t[er]raum et ?ten’? meorum cum acciderunt infra civitate’ Exon’ et in
line 8 suburbio eiusd’m civitat’ ?H’end? et tenends om’ia p[rae]d’ta t[er]ras et ten’ redditus rev[er]siones et s[er]vicia cum om’ibus suis
line 9 p[er]t’iis p[er]d’tis Elisabeth Joh’i WASSE Willi’us et Joh’i COUPE et assign’ suis sub tali condicoe’ q’d redditus et






Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: clayton bradley on Monday 23 July 12 09:43 BST (UK)
Huddisfeld or Huddesfeld (?Huddersfield) and Coupe for the names
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: grantleydawn on Monday 23 July 12 09:59 BST (UK)
Thankyou Clayton,

I like your suggestions.
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: clayton bradley on Monday 23 July 12 10:36 BST (UK)
Just a few bits-
l.3 ?lunacio, moon shaped? but I can't get the word before. "To the same Robert" is right
l.4 after the decease of his said mother. Palice-a chalice? as it comes after a missal and before apparatus for celebrating mass?
l.5 my three daughters --- cuilibet
l.6 my said wife Elizabeth    John Coupe Rector
l.8 the earldom of Henry ??
In the first line I don't think it can be cc because surely he couldn't have 200 masses celebrated before the day of his burial?  cb
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: grantleydawn on Monday 23 July 12 22:43 BST (UK)
Thankyou Clayton

Your help is really appreciated. My self taught Latin is very limited and so I lack confidence.

1.3 as per google translate – perno = night, lauacrs=washing. Maybe some sort of bowl & pitcher?

Regards
Grantley
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: clayton bradley on Tuesday 24 July 12 12:35 BST (UK)
What I think it says is "Item I give to my son Robert a silver gilt bowl with a cover covered with a  silver gilt night time crescent moon". Pernox, pernoctis is an adjective meaning night and I think the word after is something like lunacio, to do with moon.
Where it says Rector, you would expect after that, "of this parish" or somesuch, but I can't see parish. I'm still looking at the last few lines, cb
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: GR2 on Tuesday 24 July 12 12:58 BST (UK)
perno lanacro. There is a word "pernis" which means a bowl or basin. This is probably a cognate word. Not certain about the meaning of lanacro. It is certainly lan -, not lun-.
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: Roger in Sussex on Tuesday 24 July 12 17:04 BST (UK)
Might is possibly be p[ar]vo lavacro? According to the "Revised medieval Latin word-list", there was a word lavacrum at various dates from 1306 to c1546 meaning laver or ewer. That would fit with the suggestion of GR2.

Roger
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: GR2 on Tuesday 24 July 12 17:13 BST (UK)
Agree with parvo lavacro.
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: Roger in Sussex on Tuesday 24 July 12 19:27 BST (UK)
In line 7 I agree meorum, then suggest cum in the sense of whenever rather than with, and acciderunt as the next word.

That would make  something  like "My ..... whenever they have occured" which seems to make sense in context.

Roger
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: grantleydawn on Tuesday 24 July 12 22:47 BST (UK)
As always, thankyou very much for all your help.

With RootsChat’s help, I have come along way. It scares me, but I now find myself reading & understanding the context of abbrieviated Latin, and less often having to dive for the translator.

Regards
Grantley
Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin
Post by: Roger in Sussex on Thursday 26 July 12 11:46 BST (UK)
Re line 8:

I think the first word is suburbio

followed by eiusdem civitat[is] (presumably Exeter from line above)

followed by a new clause beginning H[ab]end' et tenend' ...

Roger

Title: Re: 1420 Will in Latin - COMPLETED
Post by: grantleydawn on Thursday 26 July 12 22:44 BST (UK)
Hi Roger,

Congratulations. I think that was rather clever. In support, he has used “Hends et tends” later on in the Will.

I am happy that it is ‘CC’ (200) in the first line and the problem is my interpretation of ‘ante’. Google translate, gives me comfort. It has an option of ‘even before the day’ for ‘ante diem’.

Your earlier suggestion of “p[ar]vo lavacro” haunted me and yes, I have had that problem before.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,562955.0.html
I had “lana.to”, which I cautiously thought “woolen cover”. Now, I can see ‘lavacro’. I also found many of my wills have ‘basin & ewer’. You have inspired me to revisit, what I though was an impossible Will.

Thankyou,

Regards
Grantley