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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Peggy13 on Saturday 21 July 12 21:03 BST (UK)
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I obtained the will of Samuel Carson who died Aug 1810 in Oxford, England. In his will, he mentioned his sister Jenny Boyd, who was residing at that time in Rashu??, near Ballyclavin, County of Antrim. There was another sister Isabella George, married to Thomas George, with son John George, in Ballyhill, parish of Killead, County Antrim in 1810.
Can anyone find this family with siblings Samuel, Jenny and Isabella Carson? Samuel died at age 72 so born 1738. Samuel married Mary someone and moved to Oxford, England about 1780, Jenny married a Boyd, and Isabella married Thomas George. Jenny had a son Samuel Carson Boyd, probably born about 1780-1790. He inherited the wine and brandy merchant business of his uncle Samuel Carson upon Samuel's death in 1810 but believe that he was in Oxford before that.
I really need some help with this family and would appreciate any pointers.
thank you
Peggy
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There’s this family in Ballyhill Lower townland in the 1851 census:
Ballyhill Lower (all born Antrim)
James George, head, 64, farmer
wife Sarah George, 62
son James George, unmarried, 24J, labourer
servant Elizabeth Cooke, unmarried, 27, house servant
servant James Higgins, unmarried, 32, labourer
Griffiths Valuation for 1862 records that James George held a farm, offices (outbuildings) and 49 acres of land in Ballyhill Lower. (Plot 1). That’s on the modern Long Rig Road, near Nutts Corner, not far from Belfast International Airport.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
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There's a long thread on Samuel Carson Boyd here-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,605692.0.html
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Hi Elwyn,
Not sure if I said thank you for this George information so am saying it now. I think it will be the same family that I am researching. Thanks for your help
Peggy
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Hi,
I have an update for the marriage of Jenny Boyd. Her maiden name was Carson and she married Samuel Boyd. The marriage was likely between 1775-1785. Jenny sounds like it might be short for something else such as Jane or Jean. Besides a son Samuel Carson Boyd, the couple had a daughter who married John Lawson of Kilbride. I don't know the daughter's first name.
Thanks for any help.
Peggy
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Hi Peggy,
The placename mentioned in the will is very probably 'Rashee' near 'Ballyclare'?
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Hi PRich,
When I look closely at the will, it could well be Rashee near Ballyclare. Thank you so much. I thought it was Ballyclavin, all one word, but now I see it really does look more like "Ballyclare in" the county of Antrim. I was unsure of Jenny's name as well, due to handwriting, could be Jenorey or Jenovey, more likely Jenorey. So Jenorey Boyd, in the parish of Rashee, near Ballyclare in the County of Antrim. I hope that helps someone help me. Jenorey had a sister Isabella George, wife of Thomas George of Ballyhill in the parish of Killead and county of Antrim in 1810. Isabella George nee Carson had as her oldest son John George also mentioned in the will of Samuel Carson. So three Carson siblings - Samuel, Isabella and Jenorey/Jenny. On the cover of the will, handwriting looks like it might even be W. Samuel Carson. Jenorey had a son Samuel Carson Boyd, born abt 1780, and a daughter who became Mrs. John Lawson of Kilbride. Samuel Carson Boyd, son, inherited Samuel Carson's wine and brandy business in Oxford, England and that is where my g grandmother Susan E. Boyd was born on Oct 14, 1808.
Other persons mentioned were John Pakman/Paleman of Ballydonoughy in the parish of Killead, Mary Matchett of the same place, Samuel Hyde of Belfast and Hugh Ensworth of Carmaney in the Parish of Killead.
thanks again
Peggy
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Hi Peggy,
This is getting VERY interesting! Are you aware of the name William Fee McKinney of Sentry Hill, Carnmoney parish, Co. Antrim? If not, I suggest you try and get a copy of the fantastic book about him and his life and family called 'Sentry Hill: An Ulster Farm and Family' by Brian Walker as William F. McKinney was a cousin of your ancestors!
Your mention of the surname 'George' triggered my memory and I checked through my copy of Sentry Hill and found that William F. McKinney's grandmother had been Elizabeth George, born about 1777 in Carnmoney parish to Thomas George and Isabella Carson: clearly Thomas and Isabella George are the exact same couple mentioned in your ancestor's will.
William F. McKinney was born in the 1830s and was a keen genealogist and avid writer who kept copious notes on his own family's history and that of other local families - I'm certain his collection will have further detailed notes on your George and Carson families. His former home at Sentry Hill is now a museum run by Newtownabbey Borough Council so, if you ever visit Northern Ireland, you will be able to wander around his home. You would need to do a bit of digging to find out where McKinney's original notebooks are held - I'm guessing at the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland or within Sentry Hill itself.
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Quite a few records from Carnmoney Presbyterian Church are here on Rootschat- see ANTRIM RESOURCES at top of Antrim board un Church Records:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,521542.0.html
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You are right. This is getting very interesting ! I did have Elizabeth George on my tree already married to John McKinney. Just got that yesterday. So need to find out which son of theirs is a parent to William Fee McKinney of Sentry Hill, Carnmoney Parish. Another child of Isabella Carson and Thomas George was James George who married firstly Bella Boyd, but I don't know who Bella's parents were. I was thinking it would be interesting if Bella was his cousin, daughter of Jenny Boyd but I think there were a lot of Boyds around. Bella had one child and probably died as a complication of childbirth. Thanks for telling me about William Fee McKinney and his book and his notebooks. That would be a goldmine.
Also thanks to Aghadowey for the Carnmoney Presbyterian Church link. I got into that but not into the further link to the forum. Two different things occured when I tried. First of all, it said an error has occured. When that happened in the past, usually a second try will get me in. However the next try was blocked by McAfee. I will try again later. There were some Boyd baptisms in Carmoney. Also from yesterday's surfing, I think Isabella Carson was perhaps born Carnmoney so maybe her siblings as well.
thanks again, PRich and Aghadowey.
Peggy
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William Fee McKinney's parents were Thomas George McKinney and Isabella Fulton Giffen. Thomas George McKinney's parents were John McKinney and Elizabeth George (daughter of Thomas George and Isabella Carson).
Carnmoney Parish Graveyard has the following headstone inscription which records William Fee McKinney's ancestors and, interestingly, it mentions a Carson (as well as Elizabeth George):
McKinney- Andrew McKinney of Carnmoney, Farmer who died 27 November 1792 aged 72 years ordered this stone to be erected in memory of his wife Jane Carson who died 11 Marcch 1774 aged 44 years. Here also rest the remains of James McKenzie and his wife, Helen Campbell of Argyle, father and mother to the above named Andrew MCkINNIE. John McKinney of Balleyvesey died 1 November 1826 aged 72 years and his wife Elizabeth George died 3 September 1827 aged 52 years.
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Hi there,
This is great information and confirms some of what I learned yesterday. Thanks for the parents of William Fee McKinney. I was wondering if there is a typo for the parents of Andrew McKinney - James McKenzie?? Good to know where Elizabeth George and husband are buried.
Wonder who are the parents of Jane Carson who married Andrew McKinney. Looking more and more like the Carsons are from Carnmoney.
Thanks
Peggy
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The McKenzie surname was 'anglicised' to McKinney by the family in later years...
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Oh, interesting. Thanks for that.
Peggy
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Hello Peggy
I too have been looking for Samuel Carson's
Information from my tree for you, it might help, as most families tend to remarry back into same families
Isabella's father was Samuel Carson.
Her and Thomas George (who's father was James) had a least seven children
Elizabeth (married McKinney)
Samuel (who died at the battle of Antrim Donegore 7/6/1798
John (married Forsyth)
James (married Harper and died in 1854)
Isabella (I think died young)
Jean ( married a Easton)
William (married a walker)
They lived at The Steps Farm Ballyhill
I have Jane Lawson b 1845 her father James Lawson b 1812...... married to Thomas Bigger .....she had a brother John
William Carson married in 1812 Martha Bigger they lived at house called Lenamore in Jordanstown
Marthas sisters married Smith (Islandmagee)Scott (Carnmoney)
Huston family lived at this house eventually so were related somehow.
I will look through my Boyd's and Carsons more closely
Regards Steve
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Hi Steve,
For some reason, I did not get this message until right now. This is exciting news. What is the relationship between William Carson and Samuel Carson? Isabella Carson, who married Thomas George, had a sister Jenny Carson and a brother Samuel Carson. Do you know who Jenny married? I know it was a Boyd and at first I thought it was Samuel Boyd but now I realise that it may not have been Samuel Boyd. Jenny and Mr. Boyd had a son Samuel Carson Boyd who married Mary H. I dont know Mary's surname either but they moved to Oxford, England and then to Ontario, Canada. I know they were in England before 1808 and in Canada abt. 1842.
It seems that there were many Boyd/Carson marriages and it gets confusing.
Thanks ever so much, Steve. When Samuel Carson died in Oxford, England in 1810, in his will, he named his sister Isabella George, wife of Thomas George, of Ballyhill, Parish of Killead, and he named his sister Jenny Boyd of Rashee, near Ballyclare. He does not name Jenny's husband so thinking that perhaps the husband was deceased.
If you are able to help me further, I would be so appreciative.
Thanks
Peggy
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Hi again, Steve,
I have looked at my tree again. I have Samuel Carson Boyd born 1780, not sure exactly where, whose mother was Jenny Carson. So I am thinking that his sister who married John Lawson would be born about then. Therefore Jane born 1845 and her brother John might be grandchildren of my Mrs. John Lawson, if they are connected. So we would have Jane b 1845, her father James born 1812, and then possibly Mrs. John Lawson, nee Boyd.
Does any of this sound familiar?
Peggy
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Hi Peggy
Sorry I have been away.
The only information I have is what I have given you.
I am no nearer finding out any further...it is a bit like a jigsaw puzzle.....but unfortunatley you can not cut the corners off to make it fit,,,,,,,shame really,,,,really tempted as the years go on......
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Just yesterday I learned that my Samuel Carson Boyd born 1780 married Mary Lawson, probably about 1805, not sure whether Oxford, England where their children were born or in Ireland where they were both born. If you recall, Samuel Carson Boyd's mother was Jenny Boyd nee Carson and she had 2 siblings, Samuel Carson born 1738 and Isabella George nee Carson. Now if I could only find Jenny's husband's name that would be one more step. So I need to find the birth of my S.C. Boyd or his sister married to John Lawson.
If you find anything, let me know.
Thank you
Peggy
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Here is another update about the Boyd family. Originally, I thought that John Lawson must have married my Samuel Carson Boyd's sister in order for John Lawson to be an uncle to Samuel's daughter Margaret who married Thomas Beggs. Now I know that Samuel's wife's maiden name was Lawson so that in itself makes John Lawson Margaret's uncle. John and Mary were siblings and Mary would be from the parish of Kilbride like her brother. John Lawson was a witness at Margaret's wedding as was Thomas Lawson. I don't know the relationship between John and Thomas Lawson.
If Jenny lived in the parish of Rashee, near Ballyclare, what would be the name of the church she probably attended?
Thank you
Peggy
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I thought that I had perhaps posted for this before but don't find it. My gggg grandmother Jenny Boyd was living in the Parish of Rashee, near Ballyclare, in 1810. I think she was a widow then as her husband is not mentioned in Jenny's brother Samuel Carson's will. Then I was informed that under the heads of household for Ballyeaston in 1813, there was a Widow Boyd of Rashee. I wondered if it was my Jenny. Yesterday, I was looking at a microfilm from LDS that has much information about that area on it. I found the aforementioned listing for Widow Boyd, age 64 in Rashee, Ballyeaston. That is about perfect to be my Jenny although I don't have her date of birth. Jenny had a son Samuel Carson Boyd in 1780 so guessed she might be born about 1750. Living with Jenny was Susan age 24 (so born abt. 1789), and Isabella age 18. I already suspected there was a daughter Susan who married a McMeekin in 1816. Jenny had a sister Isabella so Jenny could have named her daughter after her sister Isabella. These daughters are unconfirmed with regard to my Jenny. Can anyone find Jenny's death in Ballyeaston after 1813? I know she is not the Jenny in the old Rashee graveyard who died in 1855, wife of Malcolm Boyd.
Thanks for any help.
Peggy
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You can use the search button at the top of the page to find previous topics. I've merged your new post with the existing thread.
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I have been reviewing the answers to this post. In one of them, there is a Jane Lawson who married Thomas Bigger. I have found the marriage on Aug 3, 1866. But I would like to know the father of Thomas as I am trying to fit him into the tree. I don't find any Thomas born 1843, as per information on familysearch.org
Thank you
Peggy
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Name of father listed on marriage certificate. Extracted record gives father as Samuel.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FG82-CN9
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Thank you Aghadowey. I used this information and found that Thomas' mother was Agnes Montgomery. But still can't fit him on my tree.
Peggy
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I have now found the marriage of Samuel Bigger and Agnes Montgomery on Aug 19, 1834 in Carnmoney. I know that the record will not show Samuel's father but if anyone out there has knowledge of this couple, would they let me know? My 2 thoughts are either Matthew Bigger and Letitia Bigger (Samuel born June 14, 1801) or William Bigger and Betty Walker (Samuel born abt 1804).Of course, there may be other possibilities for all I know.
Thanks for any help
Peggy
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Well, I was lucky. I googled Samuel Bigger and Agnes Montgomery. Samuel was the son of Matthew Bigger and Letitia Bigger according to a family tree that came up. So now I have tied James Boyd into the tree and also Jane Lawson but still don't know if they are my Boyd and Lawson relatives. Onward.
Peggy
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Was this the online 'tree' you found?
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.caruth/9.3.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx
NEVER trust anyone else's details without verification. It is all too easy with the internet to acquire mis-information.
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Hi Aghadowey,
No, that isn't the tree that I found. Most of the dates of birth here are slightly different than what I found last night for Samuel and Agnes's children, even Margaret A. who married into the Carruth family. I will certainly try to verify what I found as I do try to be careful. One thing that I have already noticed in the tree that you just sent was that Agnes may have remarried in 1863 to John Andrew whereas I had prev. info that Samuel didn't die till 1866. I have ordered the microfilm from LDS which has the records of William Fee McKinney on it and am working my way through it. While it doesn't seem to have my Boyd info on it as I had hoped, it certainly has much on the Bigger family. Unfortunately, even it didn't have Samuel's parents, but it did have the children of Samuel and Agnes and their dates of birth. However, now that I look more closely, this new tree may have dates of birth whereas William Fee may have the baptisms. I say this because I have July 3,1859 for Samuel, son of Samuel and Agnes and this tree has that as his baptism. The clip below is what I found regarding Samuel and Agnes. I tried to right click and get a link that I could send you but doesn't seem to work.I also just noticed that William Fee McKinney's info and the tree that I found myself have the same dates. The website I found is a huge tree all about the Bigger family. Hope you can find it. After I googled Samuel Bigger and Agnes Montgomery, I picked the entry that said Samuel Bigger - Pipl Directory. Oh, maybe this will work - pipl.com/directory/name/Bigger/Samuel-
Peggy
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He married LETTITIA BIGGER September 01, 1793 in Carnmoney, Antrim, Ireland, daughter of SAMUEL BIGGAR and JANET JAMESON. ... Children of SAMUEL BIGGER and AGNES MONTGOMERY are: ... [ Descendants of - www.angelfire.com ]