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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Jeffrey on Saturday 21 July 12 09:39 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
If some one puts on a census in the 'Where born' column that they come from 'Swansea Parish' is that likely to be St. John's or St Marys or where?
They were born in 1860/61
Any ideas?
Thanks
Judy
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I stand to be corrected but I think St Mary's is usually described as 'the parish church of Swansea' and it is right in the centre of town.
Bernard
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I stand to be corrected but I think St Mary's is usually described as 'the parish church of Swansea' and it is right in the centre of town.
Bernard
You are correct Bernard.
My Grandparent's Marriage Cert, (1892) describes St Mary's as 'The Parish Church of Swansea'.
Romilly.
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Thank you both for your replies.
Do you know if that would that be the same Parish if they were on a census which said 'Upper Swansea'?
Thank you.
Judy
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Thank you both for your replies.
Do you know if that would that be the same Parish if they were on a census which said 'Upper Swansea'?
Thank you.
Judy
Hi Judy,
I don't know which Site you're looking at the Census on...but on An***try for example...when you open the original image, at the top of the screen, above the Census page, it lists the County/Town/Ecclesiastical Parish/ & Enumeration District.
St Helens Road for example, (where my Grandparents are in 1901 and 1911) comes under 'District 1'. If you click on that, a box opens which describes the roads that come within that district.
And so, if you open the Census page for your ancestors, - you can then check out the Parish and District from that page.
HTH, Romilly
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Thanks again Romilly. Good idea.
Judy
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I stand to be corrected but I think St Mary's is usually described as 'the parish church of Swansea' and it is right in the centre of town.
Bernard
Hi Bernard,
It's time to stick my head above the parapet!
Whilst I'm quite comfortable with St Mary's being down in town, I've often wondered if St. John's is the abandoned 'Church in the middle of the road' [Woodfield Street] Morriston?
Regards, JohnG,
Llangyfelach, Swansea.
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do you know where st john's church is?
most of my partner's family were from pentre estyll near llangyfelach parish of st john through most of the census.
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Hello Knight,
do you know where st john's church is?
most of my partner's family were from pentre estyll near llangyfelach parish of st john through most of the census.
You have asked a question I have previously asked.
Firstly I live in the village of Llangyfelach which can be seen on "Google Maps" to the north of Swansea, immediately adjacent to the M4 Motorway in the vicinity of junction 46.
Back in the 1800's and earlier Llangyfelach covered an enormous amount of 'real estate', however, today it is more modest in size.
You mention Pentre Estyll, might I enquire if you have identified this location? The reason I ask is that I am still building up my own knowledge of the village and all new snippets are absorbed with interest, Thank you.
Now to your request: You do not state and your profile does not indicate if you live in the UK or elsewhere, so I don't know if the following will work for you.
Open up old-maps(dot)co(dot)uk enter the reference numbers 266930 & 197666 let the map settle down. From the menu on the right select the 1:2500 map of 1899. When the map settles down use the magnifying glass to zoom into the church at the centre of the image. You will see that the church is marked St John's Ch.
I am guessing that this is the former Parish Church of St, John's but I have not been able to obtain confirmation of that.
This church has been abandoned for some years and is now looking sadly neglected, if you have access to Google Maps look for Morfydd Street, Morriston, Swansea, and if you have access to Street View via the yellow man icon drag the icon to the church in the middle of the junction with Woodfield Street.
Additional information on the Parish of St John's can be found at: genuki(dot)org(dot)uk
A plan of the church is available at: churchplansonline(dot)org
I hope all the links work for you.
JohnG
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Hi JohnG,
Fascinating info on Llangyfelach, - I shall spend some time later looking through all the refs that you give!
Most of my Rees ancestors came from Morriston and Llangyfelach, and so I too am interested in that area.
Best Wishes, Romilly.
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thankyou,the old maps are very useful,i live in cadle,portmead so am familiar with the area.
ive been searching for pentre estyll for over a year now,i think it was more of a village than just a street.
there are some burial's of surname emanuel in st john i would like to find,also baptisms were done there too,
have you come across any emanuel's whilst researching?
theyre either in pentre estyll or in llangyfelach rd through the census.
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Hello Readers
I find it necessary to correct my previous post of 09:30 yesterday (Monday 5th November).
I have today come into possession of new information concerning the parishes of St John's, Glamorganshire and of Llangyfelach, Glamorganshire.
There is on UK & Ireland Genealogy (genuki(dot)org(dot)uk) an index page for Glamorgan (/big/wal/GLA/) in the centre of this index page is a link to "Glamorgan parish diagram" which in turn leads to a map I had not previously seen.
Having now studied this map I would suggest that the St John's church mentioned in the message of "Knight456", above, is St John's Church, Odo Street, Hafod and not St John's Church, Woodfield Street, Morriston, as suggested in my message.
Moving On: Mention of St. John's Church, Woodfield Street, Morriston, is to be found on the Llangyfelach page of UK & Ireland Geneaology ( /big/wal/GLA/Llangyfelach/Morriston/ )
May I apologise to those of you who might have been led into wasting time in response to my message of yesterday.
“Knight456”: It is not immediately clear to me where the burial ground/ cemetery for St John’s Church, Hafod is. I shall be making further enquiries, unless other readers already know where it is and post the information in this thread.
JohnG.
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thanks for that.
do you think that within the parish/hamlet in the census refers to st john in odo st or st john in morriston?
stacey knight
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Hello again Stacey
thankyou,the old maps are very useful,i live in cadle,portmead so am familiar with the area.
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]ive been searching for pentre estyll for over a year now,i think it was more of a village than just a street.[/color]
there are some burial's of surname emanuel in st john i would like to find,also baptisms were done there too,
have you come across any emanuel's whilst researching?
theyre either in pentre estyll or in llangyfelach rd through the census.
Have you looked at the first page of the bundle? If you can read it ( I sometimes have considerable difficulty reading the longhand script of those days) it should give a description of the area covered by the following pages, a bit like a postmans route.
As an incomer, my knowledge of Welsh language leaves an awful lot to be desired, and I wondered if Pentre Estyll might be a farm? Is there any clues from what else is on the page in question, or on the preceding page, or on the following page, which might indicate where Pentre Estyll fits in with any nearby locations that can be identified.
thanks for that.
do you think that within the parish/hamlet in the census refers to st john in odo st or st john in morriston?
stacey knight
Are you prepared to identify the pages you are looking at, so that others might look at the same pages to make our own assessment?
Also, I have asked elsewhere, for information about the parish boundaries of both St. John's, Hafod and for St. John's, Morriston. If I receive a reply I'll let you know the outcome.
JohnG.
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Hi there
Pentre Estyll is the area between Greenhill and Brynhyfryd in Swansea. If you google Pentre Estyll you'll find more information.
Regards
Swansea Jill
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i had this photo from the internet,it looks like it could be at the top of eaton rd but not sure.
also an 1841 census ref HO 107/1424/4 enumeration schedule 7 page 6.
RG14 Piece 32739 Schedule 70.address is 2 cwm rd pentre estyll,glamorgan
1851 census ref HO 107/2465/~F503 this census says in the village of pentre estyll but spelt estill
stacey
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thanks jill,so it must have been more than a street.
stacey
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Stacey.
thanks for that.
do you think that within the parish/hamlet in the census refers to st john in odo st or st john in morriston?
stacey knight
If you have not already been advised by the Roots Chat robot, please be aware that I have sent you a "Personal Message" concerning a Parish Boundary map for St. John's, Hafod, which is covered by copyright restrictions.
Regards, JohnG.
Llangyfelach, Swansea.
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St John's juxta Swansea
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Swansea/StJohn/ - see reference to church moving 1880.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html
enter coordinates 265722 193734
when loaded, click on "1880 Town Plans" for "original" St Johns.
modified - forgot to add, click on old map when loaded in main window to "zoom"
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Good Morning,
I have been advised by 'Gareth' the administrator of the South Wales pages of GENUKI that:
1) Four new paragraphs have been added to the Llangyfelach page, see:
genuki<dot>org<dot>uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangyfelach/index.html#Description
2) A new 'Parish Boundaries' map page has been added to the Llangyfelach section, see:
genuki<dot>org<dot>uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangyfelach/ParishMap.html
I gather that in the fullness of time Gareth will be updating the other pages he is responsible for, with similar information.
Those of you with interests in counties along the M4 corridor of south Wales might wish to consider this for future investigations.
Regards, JohnG Swansea.
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thanks alot john for all your help,much appreciated.
have you gone onto the cambrian index search through the council website,over 70 results for pentre estyll.
stacey.
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there are some burial's of surname emanuel in st john i would like to find,also baptisms were done there too,
have you come across any emanuel's whilst researching?
theyre either in pentre estyll or in llangyfelach rd through the census.
Glam FHS Index for St John's juxta Swansea
Baptisms
Ame Emanuel, father David 1800
William llewellyn Emanuel, father Robert, Tin Worker, mother Florence, 22 May 1921, 156 Cwm Road
Anne Emmanuel, father David, 17 Jul 1800 (T)
John Emmanuel, father David, mother Anne, 15 Apr 1810 (T)
Robert Emmanuel, father David, 24 Jul 1805 (T)
Thomas Emmanuel, father David, 24 Dec 1802 (T)
Burials
Thomas Emanuel, 31 Mar 1800
John Emmanuel, son of David, 29 Jul 1811 (T)
Robert Emmanuel, son of David, 13 Sep 1810 (T)
Thomas Emmanuel, 18 Aug 1856, Pentre Estyll, age 55
Thomas Emmanuel, 31 Mar 1800 (T)
Marriages
David Emanuel, Parish of St John to Ann Jerry, Parish of St John, 28 Jan 1792
Rees Emmanuel, Parish of St John to Mary Evans, Parish of St John, Jan 1825 (B)
The gates to "old" St John's" are normally kept locked (a sad reflection of the times) but passing there last Saturday I found them open while items were being collected from the Church. I had a brief (very) look around the part of the burial ground that was accessible - part still being behind a second set of locked gates!!
Graves very, very worn and difficult to read. Some unmarked.
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thanks alot for your help,when you mention gates r u talking about the high street church,or hafod?
stacey
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"Old St John's" refers to the Church in the High Street (now St Mathew's) - relocated to the Hafod (Bowen Street) 1880 (Genuki).
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Thank you all very much for this full and comprehensive answer.
So, just to clarify this, if someone was baptised in llangyfelach in the early 1800's would it mean they were part of St. John's Parish, Swansea? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here!!!
Judy
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Thank you all very much for this full and comprehensive answer.
So, just to clarify this, if someone was baptised in llangyfelach in the early 1800's would it mean they were part of St. John's Parish, Swansea? Or am I barking up the wrong tree here!!!
Judy
Hello Judy
You ask:
>> if someone was baptised in llangyfelach in the early 1800's would it mean they were part of St. John's Parish, Swansea?
I am open to correction by others, but in my humble opinion, the short answer is No.
It is my opinion that in those days anyone baptised in Llangyfelach could have been resident in areas 4, 5, 6, or 7 of the map found at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangyfelach/ParishMap.html
There is a wordy, wordy description for each of the areas 4, 5, 6 and 7 at:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangyfelach/index.html#Description
A map of the Parish of St John's (Hafod) is to be found within area 22 of map:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Swansea/ParishMap.html
A number of other areas of Swansea are to be found on the same map.
Regards, John
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Hi,
I have a connection to the Emmanuel/Manuel family in Swansea through Mary b.1836
Thomas Emmanuel, father David, 24 Dec 1802 m. Mary Williams, these are the parents.
John
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Hello mikk1 (John) :)
Knight456 is still active on here so perhaps has not received a notification of your post.
Perhaps this will "bump" the post to the surface again!
Kind Regards
Morgan
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hi john did you get my personal message
stacey
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hi have you tried the church in wales office in Cardiff?
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no I haven't tried that ill take a look thanks stacey
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St Marys I think... near wassail square ( that was)
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Hi,
I have a connection to the Emmanuel/Manuel family in Swansea through Mary b.1836
Thomas Emmanuel, father David, 24 Dec 1802 m. Mary Williams, these are the parents.
John
hi id like to hear more about your connection to the Emanuel family stacey
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Thank you very much for the informative replies. :)
John - I have no connection to the family you mention.
Judy