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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: shilo on Thursday 19 July 12 23:39 BST (UK)

Title: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Thursday 19 July 12 23:39 BST (UK)
Hello

I am trying to find Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857 Holker or Cartmell Lancashire
her parents are Edward Holmes  and Jane Abbotson
she was baptized on the 27 Dec 1857 Cartmel, Lancashire, England
I have found her in the 1861, 71 and 81 census
after her mother Jane died in 1871 some of her family end up living in Urswick, Lancashire, England
I have found a marriage for a

Elizabeth Holmes born 1858 father Edward Holmes on the 14 Feb 1888  Urswick, Lancaster, England to a John Edward Boswick born 1855 his father is Edward Boswick

but I don't seem to be able to find Elizabeth and John after that
any help would be very much appreciated to solve this mystery

thank you
Jackie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: crisane on Friday 20 July 12 00:14 BST (UK)
I have found a marriage for a Elizabeth Holmes born 1858 father Edward Holmes on the 14 Feb 1888  Urswick, Lancaster, England to a John Edward Boswick born 1855 his father is Edward Boswick
but I don't seem to be able to find Elizabeth and John after that
any help would be very much appreciated to solve this mystery
thank you
Jackie

On same page FreeBMD
Elizabeth Holmes
John Edward BoRwick March 1/4 1888 reg district Ulverston vol 8e page 1043


I'll see if I can fnd them using Borwick cos I coulddn't using Boswick
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: crisane on Friday 20 July 12 00:18 BST (UK)
1891 RG12/3480/68/29
Kirkby ireleth
Beckside
John E Borwick 36 Publican Kendal
Elizabeth 33 born Cartmel
John E 2 Kirkby
Lizzie 3 months Kirkby
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 00:29 BST (UK)
Hello crisane

thank you very much  ;D
I did try wild search and also different spelling somehow I must have missed them  :-\
sometimes a fresh pair of eyes sure seems to make a difference lol
so he was a publican like his father in law

thank you again

Jackie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: crisane on Friday 20 July 12 00:59 BST (UK)
Hi Jackie
yeah I did wild searches too and they brought up nothing then when I put in Borwick there they were. Bah!

To think instead of being driven mad by ancestors we could just stick to being driven mad by present day family :D.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 01:08 BST (UK)
that would be nice but at the moment my ancestor are causing me less trouble then the living lol  :D

I have just found Elizabeth in the 1911 a few more children a widow and running the crown hotel grange over sands with a lot of staff
also have found a few pictures of the hotel it looks very big

thank you again I would have still been looking for her if not for your help  :)

Jackie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 20 July 12 04:26 BST (UK)
Possibly in Urswick earlier

St Mary the Virgin and St Michael
21st of March 1869
Jane Caroline Holmes
daughter of Edward and Jane
father a inn keeper
abode Great Urswick
I wonder which pub they had
The Derby and Burgoyne still open
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 05:55 BST (UK)
Hi Radcliff

thank you  :)

I haven't started looking for any info on Jane Caroline yet
apart from finding her on the 1871 an 81 census

Thats interesting about Edwards occupation as a inn keeper in

1851 Wood cutter at Eskdale and Wasdale, Cumberland
1861 Wood cutter at Lower Holker, Lancashire
1871 Edward is a wood cutter Urswick, Lancashire
1871 Jane died in  at Urswick, Lancashire
1872 he then marries Margaret Atkinson at Urswick, Lancashire
1881 he is a laborer at Urswick, Lancashire
1891 he is a inn keeper at the Derby arms inn until his death in 1921

I wonder what inn he was running when Jane Caroline was born ???

looks like some more investigating to do

would The Derby you ref to be the Derby Arms Inn ?

thank you again

Jackie

note modified post
changed Elizabeth Holmes for Margaret Atkinson oopppss  :)
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 06:03 BST (UK)
I wonder what occupation Edward Holmes gave when he married

Margaret Atkinson on 17 Apr 1872 at Urswick, Lancaster, England

or Jane Abbotson 15 Aug 1857 at Cartmel, Lancashire, England

 ???


Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Megran on Friday 20 July 12 11:55 BST (UK)
The marriage of Edward Holmes and Jane is on the Lancs OPC, both Edward and his father are down as labourers, Jane's a gamekeeper.
HTH,
Megran.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 20 July 12 12:06 BST (UK)
Yes it is the Derby Arms in Great Urswick,its on the left as you come into the village,the General Burgoyne is on the right just after it,the church is just around the corner,


Jane Caroline I assume is the one that marries James Jackson,in 1890 at Urswick
,son of Thomas,
that is an Urswick name,
the Jackson family owned the Coot on the Tarn,which is opposite the Derby,Parker Jackson was his name,he is deceased now, his mother lived in Dalton,and is also deceased ,but I cant remeber her name,
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 13:27 BST (UK)
Hello Megran and Radcliff

thank you both for your help  :)

Yes that is the right marriage for Jane Caroline who married Jackson. I have just be looking at the derby inn on Google maps using the street view what a lovely town and the inn too
will have to put it on my ever growing list of places to visit when I get over there one day  :)
I was also looking at the Coot on the Tarn as well, is it a hotel or restaurant or both it looks very nice ?
haven't found a Parker Jackson yet, did the family own the Coot on the Tarn for a long time ?

Elizabeth and John Edward Borwick are running the The Crown Hotel at Grange-Over-Sands in 1911
and 1901 they are at 3 Upper Brook Street, Ulverston another Inn but I haven't been able to find the name of it yet, I wonder how many of the other children have run hotel/ Inn ?

thank you both again

Jackie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 13:30 BST (UK)
Hello Megran

I have just been looking at Lancs OPC for Edward Holmes marriage do you think I can find it  ???
what am I doing wrong  :'(

help please  :D

thank you

Jackie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 20 July 12 14:13 BST (UK)
Priory church of St Mary and St Michael,Cartmel
Edward Holmes,x,labourer,bachelor of Holker
Jane Abbotson,x,spinter of Holker
Grooms father George Holmes,labourer
brides father,John Abbotson,gamekeeper
Witness to marriage,William Lancaster and Mary Abbotson
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Friday 20 July 12 14:31 BST (UK)
hello Radcliff
I just got it to work, not sure why it wouldn't come up before  :-\
have been trying for over a hour now and kept getting the nothing found
very odd

thank you yet again :)
Jackie

Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 20 July 12 14:41 BST (UK)
Urswick connection
St Mary and St Michael Urswick
Arthur Burns/Mary Abbotsons children

Jane Burns,7th of October 1868
Arthur William,12th of October 1870


Priory Church of St Michael Cartmel
3rd December 1859
Arthur Burns,21,husbandman,bachelor of Browedge
Mary Abbotson,20,spinster of Low Frith
Grooms father James Burns ,deceased farmer
brides father,John Abbotson,game keeper
witness to marriage,William Burn and Hannah Kirby
married by licence
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 July 12 14:03 BST (UK)
Headstone ,just to the right as you  walk towards the church in Urswick

In loving memory of
 Arthur Burns
of Little Urswick,
died 13th March 1878
aged 39 years
Also of Mary Burns,his wife
died 7th of September 1908
aged 69 years
Also of James their son
died 12th December 1900 aged 40 years
Also of Robert Abbotson their son,
died 17 th of August 1907 aged 35
Also  of Arthur William their son,
died 9th of April 1877
aged 6 years
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 July 12 14:12 BST (UK)
   Resting
Florence
The very dear daughter of
Edward and Margaret Holmes
of this parish
who died 14th of April 1957
in her 81st year
I thank my God Upon every
Rememberance of you,

behind the church on the newer part overlooking the fields and Birkrigg common
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: Radcliff on Wednesday 25 July 12 14:59 BST (UK)
Edward Holmes of the Derby Arms ,much Urswick,Ulverston,Lancashire
inn keeper ,died 29th of October 1921
probate granted Lancaster 16th of March
to William Clarke Kendall,solicitor and Edward Garnet,farmer
effects £1489.10s 6d

Margaret Holmes,of the Derby Arms,much Urswick,Lancashire,wife of Edward Holmes
died 30th of July 1914
probate granted tothe said Edward Holmes ,inn keeper,Edward Garnet farmer
and William Clarke Kendall solicitor,
effects £268,9s 10d
Title: Re: Elizabeth Holmes born abt 1857
Post by: shilo on Thursday 26 July 12 21:50 BST (UK)
good morning Radcliff  :)

thank you very much for the extra  info you have found especially  the cemetery info
Florence is on the 1911 with her parents Edward and Margaret and a granddaughter
Dorothy Margaret Holmes born abt 1903.
I wonder if she is Florence's Daughter ?

also will have to find out who is Edward Garnet, farmer mentioned in both the probates ???
haven't come across him yet.

thank you again :)

Jackie