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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 08:42 BST (UK)

Title: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 08:42 BST (UK)
I have the marriage certificate for my great grandmother Susan Jane Jess, aged 21 and Cornelius Kennedy, aged 29.  The marriage took place on 27th April 1906, Parish of Cambusnethan, County of Lanark.

Susan Jane's parents are Thomas Jess,  farm labourer, deceased and  Mary Jess, M.S. Craig, deceased.

Cornelius Kennedy was born in Antrim, Northern Ireland. 

The only record which appears on searches of Ancestry and Family Search is a BMD -  Susan Jane Jess, Jul, Aug, Sept 1883, Sligo, Ireland

I know no other details of Susan before her marriage.  I am positive I have the correct parents for her as her death certificate has same information as the marriage certificate (unless they were both wrong!)

Any help would be much appreciated.

Jules

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: ev on Wednesday 18 July 12 09:59 BST (UK)
Hi ,

Can't see a birth for Susan or a marriage for parents in Scotland

The 1911 Census has CORNLIUS Kennedy age 34 & Susan Kennedy age 25 in Cambusnethan Lanark
Just looking at the index(Scotlandspeople)

Can't see a Susan Jess on the 1901 Census
Looks like you'll have to view the 1911 Census to find out  :-\

ev
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 18 July 12 10:36 BST (UK)
Hi Jules,

Just a snippet from the burial records of Cambusnethan cemetery.

CORNELIUS KENNEDY. Wishaw, aged 1 day.
Parents - Cornelius Kennedy & Susan Jane Jess.
Buried in common ground on 12th June 1907.

There is also a record of a stillbirth burial in 1909 and the parents were Thomas Jess & Margaret McKenzie. I wondered if this Thomas was perhaps the brother of Susan Jane? However, in the same grave is Elizabeth Jess, maiden surname Carswell, who died aged 71 in 1914. So she would most probably have been the mother of this Thomas.

Lodger.
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 18 July 12 10:50 BST (UK)
No sign of either of them in the 1901 Irish census.

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 11:31 BST (UK)
Thanks folks!

I previously did a search on Scotland's People for Cornelius and Susan in 1911 and didn't get a result - I will go and search that again.

The Cornelius Kennedy, 1 day old was their first born child.  I have the death certificate for him but didn't know he was buried in common ground - thanks Lodger.

The 1901 census for Scotland shows an Elizabeth Jess with a son Thomas in Newmains but as yet I don't know if they are connected to my Jess's.

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 12:08 BST (UK)
Hmm...the 1911 census is for New Monkland South.

Ann Kennedy, Head, 69, born Ireland
Arthur, son, Wid, 32, born Carnwath
Cornelius, son, single, 31, born Carnwath
Eliz, grandaughter, single, 16, born New Monkland.

My Cornelius did have a sister Annie but she was born in 1860, Carnmoney, Ireland which would make her around 51 in 1911. 

I can't get any other search result for the 1911 census for Cornelius and Susan Kennedy.  I know for sure they were living in Kirk Road, Wishaw in 1907 & 1908 when their first and second children were born as I have just viewed the images.  1910 still shows them living in Cambusnethan/Lanark area when their next son was born - I viewed the index but don't have enough credits to view the actual certificate at the moment.  I'll buy more credits later.

I can't be sure they moved from the area around the 1911 census - I know they were still in the area when they died in the 40's.



Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: ev on Wednesday 18 July 12 12:36 BST (UK)
Sorry , should have made it clearer , the one I found had the spelling as CORNLIUS(with out the E)
Kennedy , age 34 , second person forename Susan

ev
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 12:41 BST (UK)
Sorry , should have made it clearer , the one I found had the spelling as CORNLIUS(with out the E)
Kennedy , age 34 , second person forename Susan

ev

Lol, I only found the above by removing Susan from the search field.  I've just checked the record again and the one in New Monklands definitely has the "e" - I guess Susan's family will remain elusive for a while longer :)

edited to add: just had a "doh" moment and realised you'd actually found them in Cambs/Lanark - went back and searched exactly as you did and it has brought it up - I defnintely need to go buy more credits now!

Lodger - do you know if all stillbirths were buried (sorry if this seems like a really dumb question?)  My grandmother's first child was stillborn and would possibly be buried in Cambusnethan too.
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 18 July 12 12:57 BST (UK)
1901 census has a Cornelius Kennedy boarding in Cambusnethan occ Gas maker
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 13:04 BST (UK)
Thanks Sancti, I did view that image a while back and wasn't sure if it was him or not. 

Cornelius's occupation on his marriage certificate is Steel Worker.  By the time he died in the 40's he has an occupation of General Labourer.  I need to view 1911 census to see what's listed there.

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: ev on Wednesday 18 July 12 13:17 BST (UK)
Using the index for 1911 -

Cornlius Kennedy 34
Susan Kennedy 25
Mary Kennedy 2
Thomas Kennedy 0(probably only months old)

Cambusnethan Lanark

Could this be the family ?

ev

Added - Just seen your edited post

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 13:28 BST (UK)
That's the correct family.

Mary was my grandmother.  Thomas was born in 1910 so would only be months old in 1911.

The late 1800's, early 1900's seem to be a problem for me - I've hit a brick wall with my hubby's U.S. ancestors during that time too.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Jules

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 18 July 12 17:56 BST (UK)
The 1922 - 25 street directory for Wishaw has a listing for  C. Kennedy, steelworker, 112 1/2 Kirk Road.
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 19:06 BST (UK)
I've just checked my certificates and they were at that address in 1907 when baby Cornelius was born.

Are there street directories online for Wishaw?

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 18 July 12 19:11 BST (UK)
Hi Jules,

I have the original hard copy and as far as I know it's a very rare item!
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Wednesday 18 July 12 19:36 BST (UK)
Hi Jules,

I have the original hard copy and as far as I know it's a very rare item!

Did I mention how handsome you are? 

In the future if I needed info on other lines of the family would that be possible?

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: Lodger on Wednesday 18 July 12 21:10 BST (UK)
Did I mention how handsome you are?  

Most of the folk on this List have told me just that! (It's hard to be humble)
Those on the List who know me personally can verify the truth of your words  8)
Don't all confirm at once please, you'll overload the system.

Anything I can help you with just ask. (But, I don't do ironing or windows, sorry).
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Thursday 19 July 12 07:51 BST (UK)
Don't even try to be humble - if you've got it flaunt it!!

Shame about the ironing and windows though.

It's good to know you will help if I need it - thanks for that.

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - born Scotland or Ireland. Resolved - born Ireland.
Post by: JulesT on Thursday 19 July 12 13:08 BST (UK)
Probelm now solved by viewing the 1911 census - Susan was born in Ireland.

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: sancti on Thursday 19 July 12 13:47 BST (UK)
If her parents died when she was young she may be in an orphanage in 1901 census and names were usually recorded as initials

1901 Irish census has a 12 yr old female in Dublin recorded as S.J.
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: sancti on Thursday 19 July 12 14:00 BST (UK)
There are another 2 female JESS marriages in Cambusnethan 1912 and 1920, might be worth having a look to see if they are related to Susan Jane
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Thursday 19 July 12 14:14 BST (UK)
Sancti, I have almost no information on Susan, fingers crossed they are related.  I'm trying to recall if my gran ever mentioned any aunts and keep coming up with nothing!





Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Thursday 19 July 12 14:21 BST (UK)
:( Both marriages have mother and father as Elizabeth Carswell and Joseph Jess.

Susan's parents were Thomas Jess & Mary Craig.

Worth a try!

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 19 July 12 16:44 BST (UK)
Have you come across this Irish 1901 census entry www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Dromore_Rural/Ballyvicknakelly/1205706/

Monica
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 19 July 12 16:57 BST (UK)
Complete guess for sure....There is a death showing in Lanarkshire for an Agnes Jess/Chalmers born 1870 in 1905. Wondered whether this could be the Agnes Chambers in that 1901 Irish census entry?

Monica

Added: Close but not close enough I think. Agnes Jess, wife of William Chalmers, died 1905. Daughter of John and Margaret Jess. I am assuming this Agnes is the same as the Agnes in 1901 in Ireland.
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Thursday 19 July 12 18:09 BST (UK)
Thanks Monica, I'll note it all down and hopefully once I get more info I may be able to connect them.

I'm going to order Susan's birth certificate this evening.  Going by the family names I'm going to guess her mother's name may be Mary Jane but one never knows :)

I'm also going to write to the only family member left alive who may hold the key to it all - I did write several years ago but got no reply.  Gotta try again.

Jules

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: jesster73 on Saturday 03 November 18 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hi joules my great grandfather was thomas jess and great gran was mary jane. They had 9 children born in Dromore Ireland. Sarah was the oldest. They moved to New lanark in 1912. I have 1901 and 1911 census. Sarah had moved out family home in Mahgeraconluce before 1911. Don't know if this helps, there's so many all with the same names. Best luck
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 03 November 18 16:44 GMT (UK)
Quote
The only record which appears on searches of Ancestry and Family Search is a BMD -  Susan Jane Jess, Jul, Aug, Sept 1883, Sligo, Ireland

Daughter of Thomas Jess (gardener) & Elizabeth Craig-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02724/2002187.pdf

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Saturday 03 November 18 16:52 GMT (UK)
Many thanks jesster73 and Aghadowey.

Jules
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: jesster73 on Saturday 03 November 18 21:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Joules. Do you have any other info, like siblings. This Sarah had 8, William, Thomas, AnneNobble, James, Jane, Elizabeth, Mary.  Hope I can be of help. Good luck. James
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 03 November 18 21:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Joules. Do you have any other info, like siblings. This Sarah had 8, William, Thomas, AnneNobble, James, Jane, Elizabeth, Mary.  Hope I can be of help. Good luck. James

www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Annahilt/Magherconluce/1237603
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Annahilt/Magheraconluce/246890
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: jesster73 on Saturday 03 November 18 22:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Aghadowey, thanks for your post. I have already got a lot 9n that. Also have marriage registration of Thomas jess (great) and Mary jane (millar) Jess. Can't trace before the wedding 1892. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks
Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: JulesT on Saturday 03 November 18 23:23 GMT (UK)
I didn’t have the siblings info or the census so thanks both for that.

Many of the names you list have been used for relatives up to the present day.  I now know they weren’t chosen at random. :)

Jules

Title: Re: Susan Jane Jess - Scotland or Ireland?
Post by: jesster73 on Sunday 04 November 18 00:09 GMT (UK)
Your welcome, any information I think is good info, it either helps you find something or rule it out. I think Sarah had a daughter called Minnie. I can't remember her but my older sister can. I've came to a halt myself trying to find my Irish ancestors. Got my great grandparents wedding registration from 1892, but unable to find census or births marriage deaths of them. Will keep on searching. James