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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: phillevo on Wednesday 18 July 12 03:12 BST (UK)

Title: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 18 July 12 03:12 BST (UK)
Hi,

Hope someone can help with this, please.

I'm trying to find Antoniette Del Lungo who married Victor San Martin in Australia and then maybe Edward Welsh and lived in England.

Previous request here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,591702.0.html

I'm probably clutching at straws but have found on Ancestry a marriage of Antonietta Welsh in 1917 in Western Australia.
Rumor has it that she may have returned to Australia. No registration number given.

Antoniette was born in 1867 and if this is her it would make her age of 50 at this marriage.

I can't find any record on the WA BDM site - any chance someone might have better resources for me?

Cheers and thanks,

Phil
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: muss on Wednesday 18 July 12 03:53 BST (UK)
Hi

Antoniette Welsh married Thomas M Martin 1917 WA no 431

Antonietta Martin died 1950 Perth no 819

Muss
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 18 July 12 04:17 BST (UK)
Hi Muss,

Thanks very much for that.

I've just searched the WA BDM site and can't find any of these entries - is this unusual do you know?

Cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: muss on Wednesday 18 July 12 04:41 BST (UK)
hi

I just searched and found the entries.


Muss
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: muss on Wednesday 18 July 12 04:48 BST (UK)
Hi

Here is the link hope it works

http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx

Muss
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 18 July 12 04:52 BST (UK)
Thanks a lot, I'll try again.

Cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: muss on Wednesday 18 July 12 04:57 BST (UK)
Hi

When searching try not to give too much information

ie  marriage  surnames Welsh and Matthews thats all

death Matthews  1950

Muss
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: cando on Wednesday 18 July 12 04:58 BST (UK)
Hi

Antoniette Welsh married Thomas M Martin 1917 WA no 431

Antonietta Martin died 1950 Perth no 819

Muss

Marriage from WA bdm
WELSH    Antonietta
MATTHEWS Thomas M
District Perth  1917  Reg#431   
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: cando on Wednesday 18 July 12 05:26 BST (UK)
They may have married in 1917 but were at the same address in 1910.

Australian Electoral rolls
1910
MATTHEWS Antoinetta  486 Hay Street Subiaco  HD
MATTHEWS Thomas Martin  486 Hay Street, Subiaco  Bootmaker

1916
MATTHEWS Antoinetta  Katanning  HD
MATTHEWS Thomas  Katanning  Farm hand

Death
MATTHEWS Thomas M
District Williams  Reg#53  1947

The marriage certificate would give you the information you need to progress with your research.   

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: cando on Wednesday 18 July 12 06:01 BST (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
1916
MATTHEWS Antoinetta  Katanning  HD
MATTHEWS Thomas Morgan  Korolyn  Katanning  Farm hand

1924, 1931, 1936
MATTHEWS Antonella  Clyde Street  Narrogin  HD
MATTHEWS Thomas Morgan  Clyde Street, Narrogin  Farm manager

Buried at Narrogin cemetery - this lady born c1874 and 13 years older than her husband.
MATTHEWS Antoinette 11 April 1950, Aged 76 years, Wife of Thomas  Anglican R6
MATTHEWS Thomas Morgan 4 August 1947, Aged 60 years, Husband of Antoinette  Anglican R6

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 18 July 12 06:21 BST (UK)
Thanks very much everyone, much appreciated - always get great help here.

Sounds like it might not be the Antoniette I'm looking for but might get a certificate to make sure.

Cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 25 July 12 02:09 BST (UK)
Hi all,

Following information I received from person who thinks she is related to Antoniette in England,
I've sent away for the WA marriage certificate of Antoniette Welsh and Thomas Morgan Matthews.

On the1910 electoral roll in Subiaco, Thomas is listed as a bootmaker - the information, or more likely rumor,
is that about the time that Antoniette disappeared from her English family, the local cobbler by name of Matthews
also disappeared!

I'd like to find if they had any children here in Australia (WA) but find the WA BDM records online sadly lacking in detail
of the parents, and I don't want to spend money buying certificates on spec.

Anyone have any thoughts on how I can find  a bit more detail so I can buy some certificates for the correct people?

Thanks is advance, cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: cando on Wednesday 25 July 12 03:42 BST (UK)
The online birth index does not detail parents post 1905 so you may have no option other than to purchase her death certificate.   

Nothing like a bit of local knowledge....try the Narrogin Family History Centre, c/o 24 Fox St. NARROGIN WA 6312.   Someone in the community may remember them.  I noticed a Thomas MATTHEWS was appointed secretary of the Narrogin Race Club in 1930.  There is an error on the electoral roll with their address...it should be Glyde Street not Clyde Street.  Please give them all the information you have to save them doing duplicate searching. :)  I do a lot of searching for queries in my local area and become quite annoyed when I spend time [gratis] finding information to be told...we knew that :( :( ::)

Quote
On the1910 electoral roll in Subiaco, Thomas is listed as a bootmaker - the information, or more likely rumor,is that about the time that Antoniette disappeared from her English family, the local cobbler by name of Matthews also disappeared!

What year did she/they disappear and from where?  Have you found Thomas Morgan MATTHEWS on the previous census in the area?  I can only find a Thomas Morgan MATTHEWS born Wales.  Gosh a twenty year age gap if his age at death is correct :o

Australian Electoral Roll
WA 1910
MATTHEWS Antoinetta  486 Hay Street, Subiaco  HD
MATTHEWS Thomas Morgan  486 Hay Street, Subiaco  Bootmaker

Western Australian Postal Directories
1909, 1910
MATTHEWS Thos  bootmaker  43 Peel Street, Jolimont
1949
MATTHEWS T M  Narrogin

Cando
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 25 July 12 04:51 BST (UK)
This death notice for Thomas gives son, daughter-in-law and their child

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46331128

regards,
   Ros

(edited to correct grammar  ;D )
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 25 July 12 05:06 BST (UK)
Antoinette's death notice
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article47841154

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 25 July 12 05:10 BST (UK)
I think Clifford was married twice
http://www.wamarriage.info/

I think he was Clifford Gerald Matthews and fought in second world war
MATTHEWS Clifford Gerald : Service Number - WX31973 : DOB - 26 Jul 1911 : POB - SUBIACO WA : Place of enlistment - KARRAKATTA WA : NOK - MATTHEWS PHYLLIS

Can request a copy of record from naa.gov.au (costs money)

Clifford Gerald Matthews is buried at Northam http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00072478  he died 28/12/1982

regards,
   Ros

adding military link http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=766071
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 25 July 12 05:23 BST (UK)
W.A.  Electoral Rolls in Northam (as per Antoinette's death notice)

1954
MATTHEWS Clifford Gerald 160? Duke St Northam , postal employee
MATTHEWS Norma May same address HD

pair still in Northam in 1980 and he is now a PMG official.

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 25 July 12 05:29 BST (UK)
Description of first marriage says
Clifford Gerald Matthews late of Narrogin
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article41679579

regards,
   Ros

Adding : Divorce from first wife

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article78472206
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 25 July 12 05:39 BST (UK)
Full story of his indiscretion   :o
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article76014666

regards,
   Ros
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: cando on Wednesday 25 July 12 05:59 BST (UK)
 ::) ::) ::) :P

Birth
MATTHEWS Clifford G    
District Subiaco  Reg#240  1911

Antoinette would have been c44 years old.

Cando         
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: cando on Wednesday 25 July 12 06:01 BST (UK)
WW2 service summary...little more info than entry at NAA posted by Ros
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=766071

Cando
Title: Re: Help Please - WA Marriage 1917 of Antonietta Welsh
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 25 July 12 14:10 BST (UK)
Hi Cando and Rosball,

I really appreciate all the trouble you've gone to in finding that information for me, thank you both.

I said in a pm to rosball that I did search Trove but didn't find anything like you both have done.
I'll follow up those links carefully tomorrow - getting late now.

I might still contact the Narrogin Family History Centre and ask for some information and will definitely
give them all the details I have.

Antoniette was living in Lancashire and to the best of our knowledge she has taken off twice, leaving
her families behind her. We can't find anything on her there after the 1901 UK Census and I think they
must have come to WA in between 1901 and 1909/10.

I'll keep checking, but to further compound the issue, I've found marriage details on a website for Clifford Gerald Matthews in 1938
- parents Thomas MOYAN (Morgan?) Matthews and mother Antoniette Williams! I'm sure this is her, and given her history,
she seems quite devious, if that's the correct word, and given she was much older than Thomas, I'm fairly
positive she would have fibbed about her age to him also.

Given the info about Clifford and his ways, seems as though he is definitely his mother's son! Guess I'll be getting a few more WA
certificates, but you've given me a lot to work with.

Cheers and sincere thanks,

Phil