RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Opal on Tuesday 17 July 12 13:40 BST (UK)
-
Lucy Cant b.1803, christened 23 Oct 1803 at White Colne married Richard Fish Underwood. Lucy is in the 1851,61 and 71 census with Wickham St. Paul as her birthplace. She dies in 1877. The family live in Castle Hedingham. I believe her parents were William Cant and Susanna Berring married 10 Feb 1802 at White Colne. Lucy has 2 brothers, William christened in White Colne 6 June 1802 and John. John is in the 1881 census as the brother in law to Richard Underwood but his birth/place is 1799 and at Wickham St Paul before the parent's marriage. Does anyone know anymore of this Cant family of White Colne/Wickham St Paul? Thankyou.
-
Are you sure you have the right family as found the following baptisms.
Wickham St. Paul, All Saints
Daniel and Mary Cant
Robert = October 15th, 1795
John = February 5th, 1797
Daniel = February 17th, 1799
William = October 5th, 1800
Lucy = April 10th, 1803
Harriett = June 1st, 1806
Letty = August 14th, 1808
There was also this one
Lucy Cant
April 20th, 1806
dau of Robert and Mitchel
Daniel Cant
Mary Hibble
both single and of the parish
by banns
16th October, 1792
witnesses
Jonathan Walford
Ann Yeldham
-
Thankyou. I have kept going back to this family on and off for the last 3 years trying to tie John into Lucy as her brother and thought today I would give up and ask on Rootschat. Because Wickham St Paul is always stated as John and Lucy's birthplace I had not been happy with the White Colne family connection but it made some sense. Your input has given me the info that confirms that the line from Daniel and Mary of Wickham St Paul to be correct. I shall now continue to find their ancestors!
-
1871 he is born c 1797, Wickham St Pauls, Lodger, Ag Lab, Widower.
1861 c 1799 same place. Wife Saunders Cant
1841 they may have a Daug-Grand/Daug Lucy age 8
HO107/332/1/Gesthingthorpe
Marriage is difficult to find.
There is a John Cant Marriage 1821, Kelveden, Essex to a Berridge, no 1st name given.
No much help I'm sorry.
Trish :)
EDIT 1851 they are under Count
-
Excellent work suffolk-sue :)
-
Thankyou. John's wife was Saunders nee Johnson. I had used them to try and work backwards to no avail but today with Rootschat help I have a breakthrough!
-
Marriages at Wickham St. Paul
William Cant, bach
Charlotte Candler, no status given
by banns
20th November, 1823
witnesses
John Walford, parish clerk
Saunders Johnson
Johns and Lucys marriages are there as well, but presume you have those details.
The other Lucy Cant also married an Underwood.
-
In fact I don't have their marriages as I had been unable to find them originally and so used the census info. Would you mind sending those? Thankyou as I have advanced further this afternoon then I have done in my attempts previously.
-
John Cant
Saunders Johnson
both single and of the parish
by banns
27th january, 1826
witnesses
John Walford, parish clerk
Isaac johnson
Sarah Golding
Richard Underwood
Lucy Cant
both single and of the parish
by banns
26th February, 1824
witnesses
John Walford, church clerk
Saunders Johnson
and this other
Henry Underwood
Lucy Cant
both single and of the parish
by banns
30th March, 1831
witnesses
George Cant
Mary Ann Johnson
-
Thankyou again, if I recall I think I got sidetracked by the Henry and Lucy Underwood on the census's when I first started out!
-
Hi Opal, I have a Lucy Cant in my tree. Re; Lucy Cant, Wickham St Paul, Born 20 April 1806, father- Robert Cant 1780-1867, mother- Sarah Anne Mitchell Cant (Johnson) 1783-1850, Her father- Edward Johnson 1752-1802, mother- Sarah Mitchell 1750-1824. Married Richard Underwood, Wickham St Paul, 13 March 1831. Four children. Hope that is of help to you. Paul
-
Thankyou. Daniel and Mary Cant are the parents of my Lucy and her brother, John, but I do think there is a connection between these two Cant families. An earlier post on my question on page 1 gives the christening years and further info on the Cant's.
-
Hello Opal And Paul,
Wickham St Paul is one of the Essex villages I have been researching. The parish records seem to be a little haphazard but there are a lot of Cant entries. Some forenames occur quite a lot (eg Robert,John,Daniel and Lucy). If you hit any specific brick walls let me know and I will see if I can help. There are Cant families in the 1700 and 1800's in other nearby villages so linking them all is no easy task.
Kind regards
Mike
-
Thankyou for your offer. If you had time I would be interested to know if there were any baptism entries for Daniel Cant and Mary Hibble. They were married 16th October 1792 but other than that I know no more about them. It would be good to be able to go back another generation maybe or possibly further and have their parents etc. I keep meaning to go onto the Essex RO page and subscribe so that I can view the Parish Register for Wickham St. Paul as I have been unable to find it elsewhere online. It took me a long while to sort out which family Lucy Cant was from and it was finding her brother in the census that helped this. Their marriage I only learnt of thanks to an earlier reply on this thread.
-
Hi Opal,
The information I have is -
Daniel & Mary's children in chronological order-
Sarah
Robert
John
Daniel
William
Lucy
Harriet
Letitia
Going back-
John Cant married a Mary (believed to be Mary Joslin)
Children including perhaps a couple of illegitimates -
Robert c1754
married Sarah Spink c1755
John bapt 6.11.1756 - married Sarah Balls 27.5.1779
Sarah baptised 24.4.1759 -married Samual Corder 10.6.1778
Daniel baptised 6.8.1761 (this would seem a little early for your Daniel - but maybe he died young and another was born a bit later)
William baptised 20.8.1763
Mary baptised 25.3.1770
Thomas baptised 30.12.1772
There is a big gap between 1763 & 1770 which leads me to believe that there were more children born (or lost) in that period including Your Daniel
Robert & Sarah Spink had a son Robert born 1780 who were the likely parents of Robert who married Sarah Mitchel Johnson - see message from Paul. They had several children
It is complex and subject to logical thinking which may be incorrect.
I have a baptism for Mary Joslin of 29.6.1735
Nothing concrete on John Cant senior altough there was one born 1719 - I have many examples of old chaps fathering children into fairly old age - so it is not impossible.
Let me know if anything needs expanding.
Believe me reseaching villages is far easier than researching towns!
My own particular research names from Wickham St Paul are Pilgrim,Partridge,Warren and Smith
Kind regards
Mike
-
Thankyou for the info given, it has given me more than I had to work on. When I know I can concentrate for a few days I shall subscribe and search the burials as that might give a clue to Daniel.
I notice that you have the Hedinghams as of interest. I have Underwood and Finch's in Sible and Castle Hedingham - Lucy Cant marries an Underwood.
-
Just realised on looking at my tree that Daniel and Mary Cant, aged 75 and 70 are in the 1841 census and so Daniel has an approx. birth year of 1766 at Wickham St. Paul.
-
Opal,
1841 census could be up to 5 years wrong on dates of birth so he could be the one born 1761 or could be one not in the Parish Register in the gap. Every two years is a fairly common birth cycle in those times.
Finch is a very common name and I have lots from the Hedinghams in my tree - actually there is one in my direct line . I believe I have some limited Underwood information as well but could be Wickham St Pauls although I know there were some Underwood families in Hedingham.
Give me a Finch name and approx date and I will see if I have a match in my records -meanwhile I will look at Underwoods.
Regards
Mike
-
The Underwood of Wickham St Paul information I have-
William Underwood c1829 married Charlotte Tokeley
children Harriet c1852 married James Warren
James c1856
Louisa c1859
Mary Underwood c1824 married Robert Ridgwell
I believe William and Mary were brother and sister - parents John & Elizabeth
Mike
-
Hi Mike, thank you for the offer. It will be a big breakthrough for me as I have only started this family research recently. I will sort out the best questions and get back to you. I am in NZ so all help is very much appreciated. Thanks again, Paul
-
In my paternal line, my gr.gr.grandmother was Elizabeth Finch. Born on 27th Jan 1827 at CH and christened at the Independent Church, CH on 15th April 1827. Her siblings were Mary b.1827, Ann b.1821, William b.1822-1902 and Sarah b.1825-1905 at CH.
Parents - Edward Finch bapt.14 April 1786 Sible H. married Sarah Bland b.1785 Belchamp St. Paul on 9th May 1809 at Bel. St. Paul.
Edward Finch b.1743 SH married Mary Druery on 29th July 1783 at SH.
Joseph Finch b.1713 SH married Elizabeth.
Edward Finch b.1688 SH married Frances.
Edward Finch b.1656 SH married Rachel.
Edward Finch b.1627 SH married Phillipa.
Christopher Finch died 1667 SH married Elizabeth.
I believe I have all of their siblings. Taken from the Parish Records. The Underwood line is from Birdbrook, Essex.
There is another Finch family in CH, an Edward Finch married to Sarah Pool and there does sometimes appear to be confusion on some trees online as their children have the same names as Elizabeth and her siblings in the 1820s. I used the site where the CH Parish Registers are online to sort my Finch's out!
-
The Birdbrook Underwoods I have are
Solomon Underwood married Mary Simpson 1769 daughter Hannah Underwood born c 1780 (baptised 21/1/1781 at Birdbrook.
Your Finch line is interesting to me.
There were so many Finches in the area it is difficult to be sure but I believe that Edward and Mary also had a daughter Hannah baptised 3/3/1784.
Do you have an earlier marriage for Edward ?
I have an Edward Finch married to Susan Chalice in 1772 with children Susan 1773,Sarah 1775, Ann 1777 and Eleanor 1779. Wife Susan died 1780. I am wondering if it is the same Edward - he would have been looking for a new wife with four young children to look after.
It would be interesting if it was as Sarah 1775 was my 4xgreatgrandmother !
Maybe we are very distant half cousins
Mike
-
I used www.castlehedingham.org/index.html to view the transcribed Parish Records for CH. I think it is of interest that the Finch's don't appear in them consistently till mid/late 18th century so I think their base is Sible Hedingham.
I have just spent an hour looking again to try and answer your question! I have found this - Edward Finch m Susan Chalice 6th Sept 1772 at CH. Witnesses William Richardson and William Davie.
Their daughter, Eleanor is buried 2 June 1782 at CH.
In the christenings there is Eleanor on 7th March 1790 and Rhoda on 5th January 1794 both with Edward Finch and Mary as their parents. So did your Edward marry a Mary from a neighbouring village?
In the burials there is Susan Finch buried 9th July 1780 - presumably nee Chalice. Then Mary, wife of Edward Finch buried 25th January 1807. Followed by Mary Ann (an infant) buried 22nd Feb 1807 but unfortunately no parents names but possibly the cause of Mary's death.
My Edward Finch m Mary Druery had Hannah bap.1784 and she was a sister to Edward Finch b.1786 at Sible Hed. and Henry Finch b.1794 d.1859 of SH. Given as the birthplace on the census.
My thinking is that there is one Edward F and Mary in CH and one in SH at the same time.
If you want to send me your email as a personal message I could invite you to see my tree on Ancestry.
-
thanks for your message. I have sent you a pm.
I have looked at the Castle Hedingham parish on line site again and also find christened to Edward and Mary Finch - Edward 29.6.1784 and Mary 11.12.1785 - these dates would seem to conclude that there were two Edward Finches as the dates are too close to your Edward and Hannah born in Sible. As you suggest my Edward may have remarried to a Mary - unless there were 3 Edward Finches about !
I think they could certainly be called a charm of finches.
Mike
-
Opal,
I have found a possibility -
23.5.1784 Edward Finch widower married Mary Dyson of Cavendish at St Peters Sudbury
Sudbury is about halfway between Cavendish and Castle Hedingham.
Mike
-
Another piece of the jigsaw solved!
I wonder if the following are connected from the Burial Register for CH - Mary w of Edward Finch buried 25 Jan 1807, Mary Ann (an infant) buried 22 Feb 1807 and William son of Edward Finch buried 16 Jan 1809. Could they be the children and wife of your Edward?
There is also an Edward Finch 34 yrs buried 20th May 1821 - born 1787 approx - could he have been a son to your Edward and Mary in CH?
I would think it likely that a generation or earlier the two families were connected which between our research might come to light.
-
Dear Mike, I am trying to find a link further back in Wickham St Paul and Gestingthorpe. Re : Ambrose Cant B1829 Wickham, father- Robert Cant B1780 Wickham / D1867 Wickham, mother- Sarah Anne Mitchell (Johnson) B1783 Gestingthorpe / D1850 Gestingthorpe. Robert Cant was the son of Robert Cant B1760? and wife Sarah (Spink) b1760?of Wickham (?). Sarah Anne Mitchell Johnson 1783-1850 was the daughter of Edward Johnson B1752 Gestingthorpe, D1802 Gestingthorpe and wife Sarah Mitchell B1750 /Death 21 Apr. 1824 1663863, Essex. Have you come across any Cant, Mitchell, Spink or Johnson links in your studies of Wickham St Paul or Gestingthorpe ? Cheers Paul
-
Opal,
Maybe another piece of the jigsaw solved. I am not sure where my Edward came from. Finch is a common name in the area - Hedinghams and the villages across the fields.
Are you sure that you have all the siblings for your Edward and Sarah ? They married in 1809 and the first child you gave me in your earlier post was Ann b.1821. The only possible extra one I could find was Susannah parents Edward and Sarah baptised in Belchamp St Paul 10.9.1809. First child born at Sarah's parents home ??
I will be in contact if I find any more
Coming back to the Cant family - there were a number of them in the 1700's in the little village of Alphamstone which is not far from Wickham St Pauls - including several Daniel Cants which seems to be a passed on family name
Mike
-
Paul,
Se my reply no 14 earlier re the Cants - it is far from complete or certain.
The extra information I have on your branch is -
Baptisms in Wickham St Paul to parents Robert and Mitchel Cant - I assume that Mitchel was in fact the name that Sarah was know by.
Lucy 20.6.1806
George 4.9.1808
Charles 8.4.1814
John 5.5.1818
Samuel 30.7.1820
Danzie 18.8.1822
Ambrose 15.6.1828
There was a gap in the parish records between about 1810 and 1813 but the census records indicate that Daniel was born about 1812
I have some more information on Charles - he married Mary Binks and had children - Lucy, Susan, Daniel,Eliza, Ambrose, Walter, Catherine and Hannah
I have a little bit of information on the Spink family but have not been able to link it up. Sarah Spink had a possible brother Stephen Spink who married a Mary Warren
I know I have information on the Johnsons of Gestingthorpe but will have to dig it out.
So Ambrose 1828 is your direct link?
Kind regards
Mike
Kind regards
-
Dear Mike, Yes Ambrose came straight to NZ and had 5 children with wife Esther (Marshall) here. Their daughter Emma Anne Cant married Samuel Caron Bruce in 1892 in Christchurch NZ. Samuel Caron Bruces Father was Jonathan Bruce B1838, from either Kinnitty Ireland or Glasgow, Scotland and his mother was Johanna (McGrath) B1839. Alot of work to go on that one I think. Thank you for your help on the Cants, I will join seax and look in Alphamstone. Cheers, Paul
-
Hi Paul,
Go to familysearch.org type in cant click birth and type in Alphamstone in the place box.
Unfortunately neither familysearch nor seax have Alphamstone marriages for the period needed
Kind regards
Mike
-
Paul,
You may find Alphamstone marriages on Free Parish Register site.
-
Paul,
Reference your post on 7th October ( Have you come across any Cant, Mitchell, Spink or Johnson links in your studies of Wickham St Paul or Gestingthorpe ? )
The only Johnson information I have relates to William Johnson who married Elizabeth Potter in Gestingthorpe on 16th June 1771. They had at least eleven children all born in Gestingthorpe - in date order William, Elizabeth, James,Judith Joseph 1780 (died 1 day old), Ruth, Phoebe, Hetty, Bathsheba, Milly and Potter.
I think the one with the most interest to you is Hetty who married James Cant of Wickham St Paul at Gestingthorpe on 19th May 1812 - witnesses were William Cant and Amelia Johnson.
It appears that James and Hetty went to live in nearby Pebmarsh. The 1851 census shows Hetty as a widow and described as a schoolmistress -they had at least two children Josiah and James.
Hope this is of interest
Mike
-
Thanks Mike, will follow it up. Cheers from the South Pacific.
-
Hi
I am also researching Robert Cant as mentioned by Paul.
My grandmother was grand daughter of Danzie Cant who came to New Zealand in 1865. I have traced back to Robert Cant who married Sarah Ann Mitchell Johnson at Wickham St Pauls. I am just having trouble finding any information about Robert's birth and his parents etc.
Any help appreciated
-
Hi,
A Robert Cant was baptised in Wickham St Paul 21/05/1780 parents Robert & Sarah.
A Robert Cant married Sarah Spink 24/04/1778 in Wickham St Paul.
I believe these to be the parents and grandparents of your Robert as the dates are logical.
Best regards
Mike
-
That is fantastic! Thank you so much for your help