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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: myluck! on Friday 13 July 12 10:28 BST (UK)

Title: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: myluck! on Friday 13 July 12 10:28 BST (UK)
Can someone please help decipher this information from a medal card?

    Medal                           Roll                     Page                 Remarks
                    Restr. X   B/101B16               1212 (overwritten on top row)
     Victory                      B/101B6                   453                Deserted 2/4/16
     British                        do                              do                BW & V Med issued by RAF anity X
15 Star                            B/6b                        175
                     Restn ø B/10B8                          446                name amended anity ø AS/B/1306
Theatre of War first served in 2B Balkans
Date of entry therein 15/5/15

On the reverse it states
B104-117 d/1.12.24 ?? (15 star)
and a name and address that mean nothing to me at the moment

James was born c1881 in Dublin to Benjamin JOHNS of Cornwall and Anne RILEY of Dublin
He was one of seven children born all over the world as Benjamin was in the British Army

Any help would be great
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: km1971 on Friday 13 July 12 14:36 BST (UK)
It appears that he lost his entitlement to his first medal the 1914-15 Star due to desertion. This was overturned and the medal issued in Dec 1924. The reference before the date is an internal reference probably relating to a list of medals sent out that day. The date he 'entered theatre' of 15 May 1915, and therefore qualified for the 1914-15 Star, corresponds to the 1st Battalion of the RDF. Historically overseas service included time at sea - in the 19th Century they reduced the pay when at sea or overseas as the regiment provided the food. They would have gone aboard the evening before sailing - http://www.1914-1918.net/dubs.htm

There also appears to be confusion over his name. So the medal was returned for renaming. This probably meant that an S was added turning John into Johns, as there make be a '.' before the 's'.

The RAF is a mystery. maybe he transferred to the RAF after the war. If so his service record may be with the MOD. I could not find it Ancestry.

btw....for anity read auty, ie authority
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: myluck! on Friday 13 July 12 15:10 BST (UK)
Thank you very much for this comprehensive answer

I have not been able to find out much about this man after the 1911 census until now
By chance I found reference to him in prison in 1916 in Dublin
His sister is given as his next of kin and as her address is shown I am sure it is correct
It gave his army details and number which allowed me find the medal card

I found the RAF reference intriguing myself - what is the best way of trying to find out more about him?
I am aware of the loss of paperwork
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: mmm45 on Friday 13 July 12 21:06 BST (UK)
http://www.britishmedals.us/files/r18.html

This is the 1918 RAF nominal theres a couple of J Johns on there.
RAF records are held at Kew and not online yet

Ady
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: myluck! on Friday 13 July 12 21:39 BST (UK)
Ady
To what do the numbers and dates refer along side the names please?

Do you know if how a RAF connection would be made if he was in the RDF?
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: mmm45 on Friday 13 July 12 21:53 BST (UK)
The numbers are his RAF service number the dates are when he enlisted into either RFC/RNAS/RAF  as they all amalgamated in April 1918 to form RAF.

Lads could transfer to RAF from other services You would have to get in touch with Kew I think to find out if its your man...have never traced an RAF record so maybe others are better placed to offer RAF advice :)

Ady
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: myluck! on Saturday 14 July 12 09:30 BST (UK)
I didn't realise that army could transfer to RAF like that but I suppose in 1918 it was the early days of the RAF - I'll have to polish up some of my history to continue with this one - Thanks again
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: johnbhoy on Tuesday 05 August 14 08:09 BST (UK)
My Great Uncle was James McGinley 17608 of the 1st Batt RDF, so I guess he must have known your James Johns. James was KIA on 4/6/1915 at Galipolli, and the RDF took some heavy losses, so no wonder your James Johns thought it would be wiser to transfer to the RFC/RAF. You mentioned he was in prison in Dublin in 1916....maybe due to the Easter Rising, just a thought.
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: Tyrannosaurus on Tuesday 05 August 14 17:57 BST (UK)

The Irish Times (1874-1920) [Dublin, Ireland] 25 July 1915
DARDANELLES.
WOUNDED.
Royal Dublin Fusiliers, 1st Battalion.
Johns, 17601, Pte. J.

The Irish Times (1874-1920) [Dublin, Ireland] 20 July 1915
DARDANELLES.
WOUNDED.
Royal Dublin Fusiliers, 1st Battalion.
M'Ginley, 17608, Pte. J.

The Irish Times (1874-1920) [Dublin, Ireland] 07 Oct 1915
DARDANELLES.
Previously Reported Wounded, Now Reported Wounded and Missing.
Royal Dublin Fusiliers, 1st Batt.
McGinley, 17608, Pte. J.

Rex
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: johnbhoy on Tuesday 05 August 14 19:16 BST (UK)
Rex, thanks for that, appreciate it, that's the first time I've seen that.
James' MIC reads: Died 4.6.15
I have read other notes that mention KIA. His name is on the Helles Memorial to the missing.
I guess I'll have a wee look in The Irish Times reference what you posted. Thanks again

John
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: johnbhoy on Tuesday 05 August 14 19:22 BST (UK)
Apologies for jumping on your thread Myluck
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: auntykate on Saturday 27 September 14 23:18 BST (UK)
My greatgrandfather was Patrick Tuite Royal Dublin Fusiliers 19747.He enlisted in 27/5/1915 and died 15/7/17.I know his is buried at Bard Cottage cemetry in Belgium but often wondered why he enlisted an left a wife and 5 young children at home.
Title: Re: Understanding more about James JOHNS Royal Dublin Fusiliers 17601
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 28 September 14 02:32 BST (UK)
Even in 1915 the feeling was it would be over by Christmas.

http://tinyurl.com/p76ocoo

It is a pretty standard index card. The blue cross with dots shows that he was a Private when he went overseas - thereby qualifying for the 1914-15 Star.

And he was a Lance Corporal when he died of wounds, and this will be on his British War Medal and Victory Medal. They were issued together, hence the 'do's.

There were a number of men of that name in the RDF. So you need to make sure you have the right one. I could not find his service record on Ancestry, so all you can do is ask on the Great War Forum when his number was issued.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/441050/TUITE,%20P

He must have changed battalions at some point, as the 1st Bn were in Gallipoli/Egypt when he went to France in May 1915.

http://www.1914-1918.net/dubs.htm

The only RDF battalion in France in May 1915 appear to be the 2nd. So he must have been with them first.

Ken