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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: RobMcF on Friday 13 July 12 06:13 BST (UK)
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I know that my great-great-grandmother was Kate Slyman, born in Liverpool around 1870 and of Irish descent. I have a birth record and an 1871 census record that I'm hoping are her, but can't prove just yet. The birth record is for a Kate Slyman born in September 1870, parents listed as James Slyman (laborer) and Anne Troy, living on Milton Street. The census record lists James (laborer) and Johanna Sleaman, both born in Ireland, with a baby Catherine and a 3-year-old Mary, both born in Liverpool. They are living on Johnson Street, which is just a few blocks from Milton. As James and Johanna are listed at 24 and 22 years old and have a 3-year-old, their marriage would likely be around 1867 and likely in Liverpool.
However, I've looked everywhere I know for both civil and church records and haven't been able to find a marriage record. I've searched all of England, I've searched Irish records, nothing.
Any ideas?
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www.freebmd.org.uk has
Dec Qtr 1870 Catherine Slyman Liverpool
this would suggest born oct / nov /dec birth - but if she was born the last week in September , she could have been registered Dec Qtr ....
checked lan-opc and for Slyman - Slimond is also listed , going to check now for a James Slyman / Sleman / Sleaman / Slimond marriage
allan
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www.freebmd.org.uk has
Dec Qtr 1870 Catherine Slyman Liverpool
this would suggest born oct / nov /dec birth - but if she was born the last week in September , she could have been registered Dec Qtr ....
checked lan-opc and for Slyman - Slimond is also listed , going to check now for a James Slyman / Sleman / Sleaman / Slimond marriage
allan
This is the cert I have. She was born in September, registered in October. Sorry, should have mentioned that.
She was actually born on Sept. 8 and not registered until Oct. 14.
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searched England / Ireland / Scotland /Northern Ireland
1868 in Northern Ireland there is a James Sleman to Ann ???...but no surname for Ann ....and if Mary is born 1867 Liverpool , - a marriage in N.I. seems unlikely a year after ....
on the 1901 census aged 34 she is down as MARY J SLYMAN - daughter in St Columbo parish Liverpool..... don`t know what the J stands for ?
1867 june qtr James Slimond marriage - but not to an Anne
Sarah Lloyd or Jane Davies in Liverpool
so
sorry - had a real good look , but can`t find that marriage of
James Slyman to Anne Troy
for the record there is a James Slyman aged 16 b Liverpool in the 1891 census in St Martin in the Fields parish - so b 1874/75....could be a sibling of Mary and Catherine ?
he is in an Institution
allan
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searched England / Ireland / Scotland /Northern Ireland
1868 in Northern Ireland there is a James Sleman to Ann ???...but no surname for Ann ....and if Mary is born 1867 Liverpool , - a marriage in N.I. seems unlikely a year after ....
on the 1901 census aged 34 she is down as MARY J SLYMAN - daughter in St Columbo parish Liverpool..... don`t know what the J stands for ?
1867 june qtr James Slimond marriage - but not to an Anne
Sarah Lloyd or Jane Davies in Liverpool
so
sorry - had a real good look , but can`t find that marriage of
James Slyman to Anne Troy
for the record there is a James Slyman aged 16 b Liverpool in the 1891 census in St Martin in the Fields parish - so b 1874/75....could be a sibling of Mary and Catherine ?
he is in an Institution
allan
Thanks for checking. Always good to have another pair of eyes to make sure nothing obvious was missed.
Where did you find the 1868 marriage listed? I don't think I came across that one. Worth checking out.
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1861 census
2 Howard street
Liverpool
ANNIE TROY aged 14 born 1847 Ireland .
checking freebmd for ANNIE and not Anne
1868 marriage in Northern Ireland was
www.familysearch.org
james slyman
marriage
northern Ireland
spouse Anne Troy
search
regards
allan...
I suppose that they could have come to Liverpool ...had Mary ...gone back to Northern Ireland to marry and then came back to Liverpool after the marriage ..many Irish girls came to Liverpool to have their babies ....so they wouldn`t shame their parents....in fact ...they still do ...have you found a Liverpool birth for Mary Slyman in 1867 ?...or...is she Mary Troy ??
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1861 census
2 Howard street
Liverpool
ANNIE TROY aged 14 born 1847 Ireland .
checking freebmd for ANNIE and not Anne
1868 marriage in Northern Ireland was
www.familysearch.org
james slyman
marriage
northern Ireland
spouse Anne Troy
search
regards
allan...
I suppose that they could have come to Liverpool ...had Mary ...gone back to Northern Ireland to marry and then came back to Liverpool after the marriage ..many Irish girls came to Liverpool to have their babies ....so they wouldn`t shame their parents....in fact ...they still do ...have you found a Liverpool birth for Mary Slyman in 1867 ?...or...is she Mary Troy ??
I was just thinking that the census could easily be wrong and Mary could be two instead of three in 1871. I tend to view all info on census forms as suspect anyway.
I'm not seeing the marriage. I see a James Slamen in 1868 in Maghera, Derry, but it's to a Catherine McTamny.
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I can`t find a birth in Liverpool for a Mary Slyman or a Mary Troy around 1867 ...?
Let me check that James Slamen record again...with putting in Anne Troy as spouse , it came up with James Slamen , but I didn`t see the name Catherine McTamny...I`ll double check
allan
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Ha Ha ..just checked
James Slamen
1868
marriage
Northern Ireland
result
Magherafelt - no name for his spouse.......that`s sods law...
so why when I put in James Slyman - marriage - Northern Ireland 1860-1870 Anne Troy for spouse - would it come up James Slamen in Maghera...I am a little confused now ...
maybe it came up with the nearest spelling to James Slyman....even though the brides name wasn`t Anne ?...anyway, sorry to mislead you ...that was familysearch - not me ...much preferred the old site
allan
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Hi
There is a marriage for
James Slamen and Catharine McTamny in Maghera Londonderry on 30th October 1868.
His father is given as Michael Slamen.
Familysearch
Heather
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I know that my great-great-grandmother was Kate Slyman, born in Liverpool around 1870 and of Irish descent.
I have a birth record and an 1871 census record that I'm hoping are her, but can't prove just yet.
The birth record is for a Kate Slyman born in September 1870, parents listed as James Slyman (laborer) and Anne Troy, living on Milton Street.
The census record lists James (laborer) and Johanna Sleaman, both born in Ireland, with a baby Catherine and a 3-year-old Mary, both born in Liverpool. They are living on Johnson Street, which is just a few blocks from Milton.
Sorry can't help with the marriage of James Sleaman & Johanna (Anne)
Do you have a marriage for your great-great-grandmother Kate Slyman?
Looking at the 1871 census you mention with James , Johannah, Mary & Catherine Sleaman RG10; Piece: 3771; Folio: 26; Page: 45 there’s also a lodger in the same Butler household named Edward Troy 21 (1850) Ireland Labourer
Could be Johannah’s brother
this may be Edward & Johannah (Anne) Troy with their parents & siblings
1861 RG 9; Piece: 2660; Folio: 66; Page: 14
42 Milton Street Liverpool
Christopher TROY 36 Shoemaker
Mary 34
Bridget 16
Annie 14
Edward 12
All born Ireland
1881 RG11; Piece: 3630; Folio: 137; Page: 15;
31 Circus Street Liverpool
Edward Troy 30 Ireland Sugar House Labourer married Mary Anne
Children Mary Agnes, Rose Anne, Edward John & Elizabeth
All others born Liverpool
1891 census RG12; Piece: 2902; Folio: 24; Page: 42
61 Raymond Street
Edward’s pob Waterford Ireland Gen. Labourer, 2 more children Catherine & Christopher
1901 RG13; Piece: 3413; Folio: 35; Page: 17
Edward & Mary have 2 more children Isabella & Christina
If that is Annie on the 1861 census looks more than likely they married in England and possibly it was a Roman Catholic marriage
here's an RC bapt for one of Edward's children
Isabella Troy born 19 Jan 1892 Bapt 3 Feb 1892 Parish: St Anthony´s
Father's Name: Eduardi Troy Mother's name: Mariae Annae Blake
On FreeBMD & Lancashire BMD/OPC - I couldn't see Edward & Mary Ann's marriage entry either ??? but their daughter Mary Troy married 25/2/1895 St Alban Bevington Liverpool
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Good work Ladyhawk...now you have given us that info ...if you go to
www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk
click on Liverpool Roman Catholic Marriages
put in surname Troy
1837 - 1901 ...there are 14 marriages registered ...one of them is Rose Anne who you mentioned in the 1881 census....
there is also a Baptism for Roman Catholic in Liverpool link as well on that site...it will take a while to go through the marriages and baptisms , but it will be very interesting and maybe there is some family for Rob to research
allan
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Sorry can't help with the marriage of James Sleaman & Johanna (Anne)
Do you have a marriage for your great-great-grandmother Kate Slyman?
Looking at the 1871 census you mention with James , Johannah, Mary & Catherine Sleaman RG10; Piece: 3771; Folio: 26; Page: 45 there’s also a lodger in the same Butler household named Edward Troy 21 (1850) Ireland Labourer
Could be Johannah’s brother
Great stuff, thank you. When I first viewed that census record, I hadn't yet known of the surname Troy and it hadn't occurred to me to look at the other members of that household since. We should call you Ladyhawk-eye.
I have a RC church record for the marriage of Kate Slyman in 1903 in Co. Mayo. For reasons unknown, there is no civil record. I checked with the GRO on that because I had the date and district and everything, and they said they checked the original registers and didn't have the record. Seems to be a trend with this family...
In the 1901 Irish census, Kate Slyman was living with her cousin Thomas Concannon in Mayo (written "Slymon"). In 1911, she is Kate Corcoran and has three kids with her husband Michael (DED of Kilcommon, townland of Annefield). Thomas Concannon is living with her in 1911. The 1911 census gives her birthplace as Liverpool and family sources told me she was from England.
So, really, my primary objective at this point is to somehow connect the Kate Slyman in Mayo, Ireland in 1901 with the Kate Slyman who was born to James and Anne/Johannah in Liverpool. The original hope was that Anne's maiden name would be Concannon, how nice would that have been? But Troy is completely new to me.
Other than Concannon, the only other surnames I have associated with Kate Slyman are Mullahy and Nolan, who were sponsors at the baptisms of her children.
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I have a RC church record for the marriage of Kate Slyman in 1903 in Co. Mayo.
In the 1901 Irish census, Kate Slyman was living with her cousin Thomas Concannon in Mayo (written "Slymon").
In 1911, she is Kate Corcoran and has three kids with her husband Michael (DED of Kilcommon, townland of Annefield). Thomas Concannon is living with her in 1911. The 1911 census gives her birthplace as Liverpool and family sources told me she was from England.
So, really, my primary objective at this point is to somehow connect the Kate Slyman in Mayo, Ireland in 1901 with the Kate Slyman who was born to James and Anne/Johannah in Liverpool.
Looking at the Irish census with Michael & Katherine Cororcan and their children named Mary, Patrick & Bridget - do you think one of the girls could be named after her mother?
I have found this 1871 census living Lancashire there's a Kate's Sloman age 1 although pob is dittoed as Roscommon Ireland
may just be a coincidence but mother & sisters named Bridget & Mary & brother Patrick :-\
1871 RG10; Piece: 4138; Folio: 87; Page: 8
Newhallbey Bridge Lancashire
Michael Sloman 38 Roscommon Ireland Labourer
Bridget 46
Patrick 14 Cotton operative
Thomas 8
Mary 13 Cotton spinner
Bridget 10 “ “
KATE 1 (1870)
Everyone apart from Michael has been dittoed as born Ireland Roscommon
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Looking at the Irish census with Michael & Katherine Cororcan and their children named Mary, Patrick & Bridget - do you think one of the girls could be named after her mother?
I have found this 1871 census living Lancashire there's a Kate's Sloman age 1 although pob is dittoed as Roscommon Ireland
may just be a coincidence but mother & sisters named Bridget & Mary & brother Patrick :-\
1871 RG10; Piece: 4138; Folio: 87; Page: 8
Newhallbey Bridge Lancashire
Michael Sloman 38 Roscommon Ireland Labourer
Bridget 46
Patrick 14 Cotton operative
Thomas 8
Mary 13 Cotton spinner
Bridget 10 “ “
KATE 1 (1870)
Everyone apart from Michael has been dittoed as born Ireland Roscommon
Certainly another one to consider, though I'd think Sloman would be a less likely spelling of Slyman. Sleaman and Slyman could be pronounced the same, but I don't see it with Sloman. Still, you never know. Best to take a look.
The names are all so common. Sometimes it feels like my entire family tree is made up of five or six names.
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Hi there I have mysterious Troy in my family too, they came from Ireland,and somewhere along the . line changed their name from Troy to Troy Heritage , we have Thomas Troy and Richard Troy both had heritage as their surname,there was a few that went to America, they were lacemakers and I have found the ship they went on, any other information would be greatly appreciated as I really would love to find out why . they changed their name ,thank you UP x