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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Genny1411 on Thursday 12 July 12 23:43 BST (UK)
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Is there anyway of looking up who lived at 22 Brisbane Street, district of Kirkdale, West Derby, County of Liverpool in February, 1922 . We are wondering who lived at that address other than John Thomas Miller and Margaret Miller. My husband is looking for his family tree in England and that is the address given on his father's birth certificate. Thank you :)
Alternatively is there any way of researching further the info on his father, Albert Miller, born Feb. 14, 1922, residing at 22 Brisbane St., Liverpool at the time. Parents: Margaret Miller and John Thomas Miller. Mr. Miller( senior's) occuption was given as steamship fireman. Thanks again.
Glenda
Canada
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Hi
lookng on FreeBMD for the birth of Albert Miller 1922 there is one born March 1/4 registration district W. Derby vol 8b page 844 mother's maiden surname Barwise. However i can't see a marriage for a Barwise and Miller prior to this date yet.
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There is a marriage on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
John T Miller to Margaret Barwise in 1913 - Registry Office or Registrar attended
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Full reference from freebmd is September qtr 1913 Liverpool 8B 209
Freebmd shows 6 births between 1920-1929 surname Miller with mothers maiden name Barwise
www.freebmd.org.uk
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Hi caroleW
yes just found the details on FreeBMD Reg dist Liverpool Sept 1/4 1913 vol 8b page 209.
Snap :)
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Freebmd shows 6 births between 1920-1929 surname Miller with mothers maiden name Barwise
www.freebmd.org.uk
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The free 1911 index has an entry for a Margaret Barwise b 1891 living in Bootle cum Linacre
Births June qtr 1890
Barwise Margaret West Derby 8b 350
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1891 census shows her aged 1 b Liverpool living with her aunt & uncle Edward & Sarah Jane McNally
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Baptism at St Peters Liverpool 13.3.1890
Margaret Barwise b 21.2.1890 parents George Frederick (occ victualler) & Margaret Barwise
Deaths March qtr 1891
Barwise Margaret aged 33 West Derby 8b 328
Marriages June qtr 1880
Barwise George Frederick West Derby 8b 559
Kelly Margaret
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Margaret Barwise jnr had the following siblings - all baptised at St Peters - parents George Frederick & Margaret. George is shown as a victualler on all entries
William Henry b 10.6.1881 c 26.6.1881
Robert b 24.1.1883 c 7.2.1883
Albert Edward b 9.12.1886 c 6.1.1887
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Thank you all so very kindly, amazing the help you get on here.
I will look up each and every entry/suggestion. Hubby is thrilled.
Glenda
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13th February 1876 at St John The Baptist, Toxteth ,Liverpool
the christening of George Frederick Barwisse
parents Thomas Barwisse and Mary
abode Erith Street
occ - moulder
possibly their marriage
Thomas Barwise to Mary Williams at St Peter ,Everton ,Liverpool in 1868...
baptism of Thomas may be
Thomas Barwise christened 25th february 1846 at St Peter - parents Thomas and Elizabeth
their marriage may be
1845 Thomas Barwise to Elizabeth Eyres at Our Lady St Nicholas and St Anne ,Liverpool
allan
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Thank you again, didn't know the name Barwise was that common in Liverpool so they all may be related - will try to figure it all out. Family history can be such a labyrinth can't it. Thank you for all the help, the hubby now knows more about his family than he has ever known or thought possible to learn. For a long time it seemed like such a deadend. Your help is very much appreciated.
Glenda
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Hi Glenda
so they all may be related
They are all related. If you work backwards from the Margaret Barwise who married John T Miller these were her parents/grandparents and great grandparents
Her parents were George Frederick Barwise (1876) and Margaret Kelly
George Fredericks parents were Thomas Barwise (1846) and Mary (? Williams)
Thomas Barwise parents were Thomas Barwise and Elizabeth Eyres
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Thank you again, this is just amazing.....from not knowing anyone - except his grandmothers' name from knowing back 3 generations :) One of the problem of emigrating to another country is losing touch with family left behind.....thus hubby grew up in Canada not really knowing any of his relatives with the exception of his grandmother who visited one time in Canada. I can't wait to write it all out for him......thank you kindly for all the feedback/work on his and my behalf :)
Glenda
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Thank you again, this is just amazing.....from not knowing anyone - except his grandmothers' name from knowing back 3 generations :) One of the problem of emigrating to another country is losing touch with family left behind.....thus hubby grew up in Canada not really knowing any of his relatives with the exception of his grandmother who visited one time in Canada. I can't wait to write it all out for him......thank you kindly for all the feedback/work on his and my behalf :)
Glenda
Hiya Glenda....I live in Liverpool and I am in my 60`s....and so are quite a few Barwise..go to
www.192.com
barwise
liverpool
search
and you will be pleasantly surprised...apart from those on the phone...it lists the electoral role of the Barwise families and their ages...I have just counted around 100....now there`s a surprise for your hubby...
allan ;)
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To follow John thomas Miller's line back and be sure you have the right one you need to buy his marriage cert to Margaret Barwise Registration district Liverpool 1913 vol 8b page 209.
I have taken a look to see if I could sort him out but in 1911 there are 16 John Thomas Millers in Lancashire alone and we don't even know if he was born in Lancs. Also he could have been at sea if he was employed in the ship industry so we need to know his date of birth, place and father's name.
You can order a certificate online here using the details given but check them on FreeBMD first. :)
www.gro.gov.uk/gro/contents/certificates
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Thank you Crisane. Hubby went over all the material we had last night and he was amazed. He knew so little about his extended family. He read it over and over lol. We have ordered the marriage certificate and we'll see where that takes us vis-a-vis his family.
Freebmd does show some information but not in enough detail to know who his parents were.
Marriages Sep 1913
Miller John T. Barwise Liverpool
What a great team. Thanks again.
Glenda
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Hi Glenda
Did you check out the Miller/Barwise children on freebmd
Freebmd shows 6 births between 1920-1929 surname Miller with mothers maiden name Barwise
www.freebmd.org.uk
Just select births then input surname Miller and spouse surname Barwise
Dates - show 1920-1929 and select Lancashire from the county list
What puzzles me is the absence of births between 1913-1919.
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Possibly away in WW1 ??
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Yes, we did check out the children on freebmd and we figured the same thing , that he was away in WWI - we knew he was in the Navy so we figured that was the reason no children during that timeframe. Hubby now has a list of his aunts and uncles, some of whom he hadn't even known about lol. Am waiting on the marriage certificate for John Thomas and Margaret and then perhaps can figure out some more details. :)
Thanks :)
Glenda
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Margaret's mother Margaret Kelly died Q1/1891, maybe in childbirth. It looks like her husband passed the children off to other relatives or orphanages. Two of them went to Canada as "home children" - George Frederick Barwise 1885-1979, who eventually died in Montana, and Albert Edward Barwise 1888-1972 who died in New Hampshire. I don't think either had children. My own family of Barwises lived close by in Kirkdale/Bootle - we are distant relatives - you can see the ancestors on the Barwise Rootsweb site. I think George senior and his brother Robert were both killed in an air raid in Bootle in 1940. My own family's house in the next street in Bootle was also destroyed, and some of my father's family in the same street were killed.
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Here is the entry for Robert Barwise but there is no entry for George on www.cwgc.org
http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/3116987/BARWISE,%20ROBERT
The only George F Barwise death was in 1933 but he is shown as b 1870
There is a George W Barwise death in 1934 b 1876 but middle initial is wrong
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Well how exciting to get to know you and than you for your response :) George will be thrilled (hubby's name lol) It seems to run through the family. He met his uncle Albert when he was a toddler and I believe one had offspring. He kind of knew his grandfather died during the war but wasn't sure...so this is very interesting news.
OK here's what we have thanks to a relative of mine who also did some digging : You may already have some of this info but if not maybe it'll be good for your records as well.
Luella Edith Campfield Barwise married George F. Barwise in 1923, St. Clair County, Michigan USA. She is buried in the Greenwood Cemetery, Wolf Point, Roosevelt County, Montana, USA. They had no children. George is buried in the same cemetery as Luella.
From the Home Children's Records (Canada)
Albert E. Barwise, 7 years old, male, came on the ship Parisian left from Liverpool in 1893 with Miss Birt's children to Knowlton, Quebec.
George F. Barwise, 8 years old, male, on the ship Parisian left from Liverpool, March 23, 1893, arrival port: Halifax, destination Knowlton, Quebec also with Miss Birt's children.
Both Albert Edward and George Frederick Barwise were in the Liverpool Sheltering Home (I believe the records are now with Barnardo's and they require 65 pounds to release them).
Will PM you a problem we are having re. a baptism.
By the way Mrs. Birt or Miss Birt brought many many orphans over from England to Canada. They became known as Mrs. Birt's children. I'm not sure its the same person but Louisa Birt set up and ran the Liverpool Sheltering Home....evidently she also accompanied adoptees to Canada.
A little more on Albert
In 1922 he was 32 y.o., married, a garageman. Foster father: Art Buchanan, Dunham Quebec. He married a Hazel who was also a foster child of Art Buchanan, Dunham Quebec, Canada. Albert became an American citizen on 17 March 1944. George said he also met children but maybe we can do some more digging and find out who they were.
Thank you, take care,
Glenda
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George lived in Bianca st Bootle in 1940 (the next street to my father's, Othello st) when he died, and that's given as the place where Robert died, although Robert's address was given as Carolina st). So I just assumed they were both killed by the bombs (they both died in 1940).
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Thank you CaroleW - will take a look at that record as well lol. IBarwise, have sent you a PM. Have to go out for a bit, but will be back on later :)
Glenda
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Hi Ibarwise, I think you may be referring to a different George than the one that came to Canada with Mrs. Birt's children. I do know my husband's mother was Margaret Barwise and her brothers George and Albert were placed in foster care - I assume when her mother passed away. Her mother was Margaret Kelly. Her father was George Frederick Barwise. They were married in June qtr 1880. In 1890 they were living in Bootle cum Linacre when Margaret (junior) was a baby. However at 1 year old she is shown in the 1891 census as living with her aunt and uncle in Liverpool.
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The George who died in 1940 in Bianca street was the father of Robert who also died in Bianca st, the father of George and Albert who went to Canada, and the father of your husband's grandmother Margaret. So he would have been about 82 (and maybe he died of old age just before the bomb - I'm not sure). George's wife Margaret (Kelly) died in Q1 1891, so in the 1891 census George senior is shown as a lodger with his brother William.
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Thanks IBarwise :) Again we appreciate it.
We received the marriage certificate today from John Thomas Miller and Margaret Barwise. We need a little help now with the Miller line.
24 Aug. 1913 the marriage took place. The father of John Thomas Miller is shown as Henry Miller, Dock Labourer. John Thomas was 24 y.o. at the time, bachelor, stoker Royal Navy living at 51a Skirving St., Liverpool. Margaret Barwise was shown as 22 y.o., spinster, Labeller in Bottling Stores, living at 8 Skirving St., Liverpool, George Barwise (Publician) was her father and is shown as deceased. They were married at St. Anthony's Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Roman Catholics. St. Anthony's Church is shown as Scotland Road, Liverpool, county of Liverpool.
Is there any way of tracing the great grandfather Henry Miller??? That's the first we've heard of that name.
Thanks,
Glenda
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That's strange - as I understand it, George didn't die till 1940.
I think now you need to search the censuses and birth/marriages. Many of these sites you have to pay for. I'd try these two first:
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/
and
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk
BTW, the only other brother/sister I know of who didn't die young was Robert, who was killed by the bomb, and appears to have had no family. There's a possibility that George senior married again about 1902, and had a son Henry, but I'm not really sure.
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Will try those 2 sites as well IBarwise. Very interesting this research business, takes us all over the place lol.
Seems to me its easier in the UK than Canada though, one province here Saskatchewan has strict Privacy laws which are preventing us from researching George's mum any further but we're going to persist lol.
Take care and thank you.
Glenda
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I think this is probably John Thomas Miller's navy records http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/D7076056?uri=D7076056-details.
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We received the marriage certificate today from John Thomas Miller and Margaret Barwise
Who were the witnesses?
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Just a possibility in the 1891 census:
26 Howley Street Kirkdale
Henry Miller 37 Dock labourer - Germany, Dantzic
Mary A - wife 24 Gloucester
Harriet - daur 9 Liverpool
Marie - daur 8 do
Thomas - son 2 do
William H - son 5 months do
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and the same family in 1901 at 19 Doncaster Street:
Henry Muller - 48 Dock labourer - Germany British Subject
Mary Muller wife 39 Gloucester, Duseley (?)
Maria Muller daur 18 Fuze Light maker Liverpool
John Muller son 13 Liverpool
William Muller son 11 Liverpool
Catherine Muller daur 8 do
Charles Muller son 4 do
Harriet Muller daur 20 packer if fuze light works do
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Catholic baptisms to Henry (Henrici) Muller and Mary Ann (Mariae Annae) Reeves:
Maria - St Peter's Priory -1883
Maria Anna - St Sylvester - 1886
Catherina - St Alphonsus - 1893
Carolus Julius - St Anthony's - 1897
Christophorus - St Sylvester - 1900
Jacobus Eduardus - St Alphonsus - 1903
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Possible marriage in q/e March 1879, Liverpool 8b 81:
Müller, Heinrich
Reeves, Mary Ann
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Liverpool History Projects has a catholic baptism at St Anthony's in 1888:
John Thomas Miller
Father: Henry
Mother: Mary Ann Greaves
http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms/
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Findmypast has a 1920 merchant navy seaman's record for John Thomas Miller of Liverpool born 21 September 1888. It has a photo of him.
The birthdate of 21 September ties in with the RN stoker's papers at the national archives (though that apparently shows 1891 as the birth year)
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Thank you all very very much. Will check all this new information out when I return from work today as time is short atm. Am very interested in seeing the photo. There just might be a family resemblance - one never knows lololol.
Take care, will get back to you later on.
Glenda
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Hi ShaunJ - here are the witnesses to the marriage of John Thomas Miller and Margaret Barwise.
Thomas Harding
Annie Macfarlane
Edmond Keohan (not sure of the spelling of this one)
Thomas T Littlar (Registrar)
Glenda
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Findmypast has a 1920 merchant navy seaman's record for John Thomas Miller of Liverpool born 21 September 1888. It has a photo of him.
The birthdate of 21 September ties in with the RN stoker's papers at the national archives (though that apparently shows 1891 as the birth year)
SeanJ - how do you do this? I'm on FindMyPast but its a labyrinth. Can you PM me instructions for seeing the merchant navy record as well as the picture :) Thank you so much.
Glenda
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On findmypast.co.uk just search for John Thomas Miller on the "Search Our Records "page
On the results page tab down to the Education and Work section, and then to Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941. Check out the first one on the list, born 1888.
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I'd like to thank everyone on here for their help. I just discovered I could print the whole thing out and I've done that. Amazing work!!!
Take care, wishing you all the best.
Glenda
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Glenda - the story of George and Albert and their departure from Liverpool is a sad one. The plan was for all 4 children to be sent to Canada and their father told them that he would come out and live there with them. Their sister Margaret and brother were effectively rescued from the departure docks under the pettycoats of their aunty (when she went back for them it was too late). Margaret lived on in Liverpool and travelled out to America many years later and spent some time with her brothers - in fact I think that your husband's dad facilitated the meeting. They told Margaret that though they had subsequently had a good life they would never forgive their father for abandoning them. Margaret had a great time over there - so much so that she outstayed her visa and I think the FBI were looking for her! They caught up with her when she was back in Liverpool.