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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: polly88 on Wednesday 11 July 12 20:28 BST (UK)
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I have been searching for the death record of my great grandfather Peter Pendleton for many years. He was born in Huyton in 1853. I have his baptism, his marriage, every census to 1911, addresses for him in 1918, 1920 and 1922 (taken from son's army records). My father, who was born in 1911, remembered him well. So... I know he died after 1922. I know he went to live with his daughter Jane, who married Henry Barton. They lived in St Helens (they had a china shop). Jane Barton died in 1934. I am guessing that he probably died between 1922 and 1934.
I sent for a death certificate of a Peter Pendleton who died in 1926 but it wasn't him. I know that there were three Peter Pendletons born around 1853 (one was his brother who died as a baby). I have followed the other one, and I am sure it is his death certificate I have.
Now... I have just found a record I haven't found before! But I don't understand it. Can anyone help? It is from FindMyPast, and it is a death of a Pendleton on a ship. It doesn't give the first name, so it could be a complete red herring. These are the details:
Name:PENDLETON
Date of death:July 1923
Age:
Place of death:
Place of birth:
Belonging to service:
Ship's name:San Gil
Series:BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box:0078
What is the ship, and does it mean this person worked on the ship, or was a passenger.
I am not sure if I've posted this on the right forum but given he is from Lancashire!!
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FreeBMD records the following death:-
PENDLETON, Peter d.1926 Prescot 8b 831 Jun Qtr (aged 75).
Looks a good possibility?
Victor
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Sorry, no Victor. As I said in my rambling post, I sent for that certificate years ago, and it's not him. There were 3 Peter Pendletons born around the same time and all in the same area!! It took a bit of unravelling but I know where I'm up to now!!
I always knew that my Peter went missing, it was a family legend. My father even wrote a poem about the missing PP!
But thanks for your interest.
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Hi
Boston Passenger and Crew List June 1923 San Gil
The chap that died on the San Gil was Fred L Pendleton b America he was a crew member
Margp
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Thank you Margp. What a shame. Back to the drawing board then. I am never going to find him I am afraid. My dad always said he went missing and no-one ever heard anything again. It was rumoured that he'd been killed, and body never found. Possible I suppose.
Thanks anyway.
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Sorry, no Victor. As I said in my rambling post, I sent for that certificate years ago, and it's not him. There were 3 Peter Pendletons born around the same time and all in the same area!! It took a bit of unravelling but I know where I'm up to now!!
I always knew that my Peter went missing, it was a family legend. My father even wrote a poem about the missing PP!
But thanks for your interest.
Hi Polly, can you tell us the reason why you have discounted this DC
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A number of reasons really. The death certificate I have states he was a general labourer, whereas my PP was always down as a joiner. The address is Moss Lane, Windle, Whiston (that's what it says) whereas I know that my PP was living in Argyle St, St Helens in the 1920s. And it says the informant was his son William Pendleton, present at death, and my PP didn't have a son called William. My PP had 7 girls and one son John Wales Pendleton (known as Jack) and he died in the war, in 1918. It was devastating for the family, as he was the only boy; my father (who was born in 1911) talked about it in detail, and the upset of his mother (PP's sister) at losing her only brother.
I was so excited when I sent off for the certificate in 2009, and so disappointed when I opened it!
Thank you for your help and interested though!
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Hi Polly
When he was living in Argle St was he still with the family or had he left?
I notice he was a Journeyman Joiner, and this a long shot, I wonder if he had another family else where and left to be with them, this only a suggestion and as you have explored most avenues on this, it may be worth checking the informant on the DC, it seems odd that a man of his years would up and leave his family and never return, unless he had somewhere to go, and I hope you are not offended by my suggestion.
Margp
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Just throwing this one in the mix ::)
In the National Probate Calendar Index of wills there is a record for
Peter Pendleton, 7 Peak Street, Oldham died Dec. 29 1937. Birth about 1860.
Administration Manchester. Effects left to John Pendleton, machinist and Jane Elizabeth Pendleton spinster.
Deb
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Have you discounted the Peter S Pendleton that died in Prestwich aged 70 in 1921?
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Margp - yes, in 1911 he was living with his wife Esther Jane, and his son John Wales Pendleton, and his daughter Edith. He was still a Journeyman Joiner. And no, Margp, I'm not offended by your suggestions!! It is possible, people did and do live double lives. But my dad does remember him very well and knows that he lived with his other daughter Jane who had married Henry Barton, following the death of his wife Esther Jane in 1917. The Bartons lived in Gwyndey Moss Lane, Windle in 1935 when she died.
Also, I have followed the other Peter Pendleton from Windle all through the censuses, and he had a son William, and was a Labourer; so my death certificate is almost certainly his.
Deb - I don't know! I don't think it is him; there's no connection at all to Oldham, and I don't know the name Jane Elizabeth Pendleton; there are John Pendletons in previous generations. The problem is there is a whole other lot of Pendletons from Manchester (Blackley) and they have almost exactly the same names and similar birthdates. I think there must be a connection somewhere but I've never been able to find it.
Jinks - yes I have discounted that Peter P, as my PP was still alive in 1922 and living in Argyle St, St Helens. Also, in each census search there are three Peter Pendletons, two from Prescot and one Peter S Pendleton from Prestwich (sort of near Manchester?!) - in 1911 he is down as Peter Smith Pendleton.
Thanks all of you for your help on this one.
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Thank you Margp. What a shame. Back to the drawing board then. I am never going to find him I am afraid. My dad always said he went missing and no-one ever heard anything again. It was rumoured that he'd been killed, and body never found. Possible I suppose.
Thanks anyway.
Hi Polly have you check the Newspaper to see if there were any reports of when he went missing
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Well Margp I have had cursory looks and not found anything. I've looked at the British Newspaper Archive but I find it really difficult to navigate, and it seems to come up with gobbledygook on initial search, and is a bit of a long shot to pay to look at the full report.
What do you think is the best way to search newspapers? I suppose the best thing would be to go to Liverpool and laboriously search through. I am in Yorkshire and don't often get to Liverpool.
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Hi Polly
I would contact the Archives, if he was killed and nobody knew who he was, there may be Coroner's Records that you could look at
Marg
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Hi Marg
I have looked at National Archives online but find it hard to navigate. Can one search for coroner's reports online? And if so, do you know the best way to do it?
Thanks for your help.
Polly
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Hi Polly -- I am just poking my nose in here!
Sadly, not all Coroner's reports were retained - but there is general information about them on the National Archives site at;
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/coroners-inquests.htm
It would be a bit of a nightmare searching papers - you don't know a date. The British Library ones on line are searchable BUT -- may not yet have details for the period you are interested in. They do cover SOME early 20th century dates though - (as well as 19th century of course).
How about putting an appeal in the local newspaper for information?
Regards June
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Hi Polly
I think that it would advisable to check at the local Archives in Liverpool they may be able to point you in the right direction on the Coroner's Records and the local newspapers
Marg
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Do you know where the wife was buried? If you do have you checked who else is in the grave?
I would suggest you need St Helens area newspaper copies of which would be held at St Helens Library.
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June - I think that's worth a shot!! I'd never thought of putting an ad in the local paper. You never know, some distant relative might know something. I know he lived with his daughter and husband towards the end of his life, and they were the Bartons, and I know there are Bartons still living in St Helens. Thanks.
Marg and Gibel - I really will have to pay another visit to St Helens. I've been a few times but couldn't find anything but then I was flailing around a lot, and didn't really know what I was looking for.
Gibel - Esther Jane, his wife, died following a fall in Stanhope St, St Helens 16.12.16. Inquest held 20.1.17. Information I've got from death certificate. She is buried in St Helens Cemetery:
Grave Section: 46; Grave Number: 414; Not recorded; Purchased: Yes
Lease Details: Lease Type: Fixed period
Lease First: 21 / 01 / 1917
Lease Start Date: 21 / 01 / 1917
Lease End Date: 20 / 01 / 2017: Lease PD, 100
In the grave with her are her daughter Edith Whitaker (nee Pendleton) (1969) and her husband John Thomas Whitaker (1941).
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Good luck Polly I hope you have better luck than me, I have been searching 10 years for my Grandmothers DC and never found anything on her
Margp
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Thanks Marg. That's the way it goes sometimes, isn't it?
Best of luck!
Polly
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I think it is seven years before you can declare someone dead that went missing but has that always been the case - if it was twenty years at this point in time you may have another possible
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How do you mean Jinks? What would I have to do, and how would it help me know what happened to him? I would just love to resolve this, it has been nagging at me (and my extended family!) for so many years.
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Found one that was 76 Prescot but about twenty years too late.....you could try tracing this individual backwards to see if he existed OR could he be yours declared dead twenty years after he had gone missing?
The Details are Death 1944 March Quarter from freebmd
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Hello Jinks (I was going to write Hi Jinks, but thought better of it!)
I don't know for sure, but if a person is only 'assumed' to be dead (and I agree with you about the 7 years) -- a court order is necessary to obtain a death certificate.
I don't think it has ever been as long as 20 years before that assumption will be made, although it may depend upon when a family member applies to the court.
There is some information on;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_absentia
Regards June
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Thanks Jinks. I have found the PP you have found the death for. He is from the Pendletons of Prescot who were watchmakers and repairers. I keep coming across them, as they seem to use the same first names as my Pendletons (as do the Manchester/Blackley Pendletons)! I know that there wasn't the same range of first names in Victorian times as now, but it does seem to be a big coincidence (and I don't believe in them!).
I have never been able to make a link between the three separate Pendleton families but bet they are connected in some way!
Thanks for looking though.
Polly