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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: jeastead on Monday 09 July 12 03:33 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know how I can find the death record of a twin.
My late father in law William Stead b 1909 always said he was a twin. They lived in Whitehall Street Rochdale Lancashire in the 1911 census. There is reference to a child who had died and think that this may be the twin. There is no reference in the BMD records of another child being born at the same time as William.
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Hi just doing a search via Freebmd gives me a William born June 1909 Rochdale with also in June 1909, but on a different reference an Esther, in Sept 1909 an Esther Stead's death was recorded in Rochdale aged 0 but cannot be certain that this is the "twin"
Keyboard86
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thanks for your quick reply. Sorry I forgot to put the date of my late fathers birth.
It was 13th March 1909 so I don't think your find would be a match.
Thank you anyway.
Jean
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If the other twin were stillborn, there would be no entry in the birth indexes.
And if the mid march birth were not notified to the registrar until 1st of April, then it would appear in the June quarterly returns.
Pauline
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Hi
Lancashire bmds have the following 1909
Stead William Wardleworth Rochdale
Stead Esther " "
There is another William born 1909 but he was born Spotland which in the 1911 is a different family.
I see they were in Wardleworth in 1911.
Cathy
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Hi,
Having searched through the burial registers of Manchester General Cemetery (Non Conformist only) they do record still born burials. In some cases they put the parents name(sometimes only the surname) and address. As you would have an address form the birth certificate of the other child it might be traceable.
If you have an idea which Cemetery (if it was a cemetery - not sure about Crematoriums- though they possibly would keep the same kind of records) and they have burials registers it's worth a search, as you have said it was a twin. (Though when registering they may not have stated the child as a 'twin')
Do you have any information if the child was a still born or did he/she survive to a certain age?
Searching for the Burial Registers possibly at the Office or a library could help with your search. Or contacting a Crematorium if there was one in the town at that time? They may each offer a search for a fee? Or if you track them down search them for yourself or maybe someone with access would offer to do it for you?
Cancan :)
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If you can find William Stead's birth certificate and both twins were born alive, there should be a time on it. I think this is a good indication that he was a twin.
Looking at the other posts and the BMD and LancsBMD indexes, if it were my family and I had to take a guess at which certificates to order it would be the William and Esther Stead registered June qtr 1909. As PaulineJ has already said a March birth could very easily come under the June qtr which covers the months April to June.
I would order William's certificate first and take it from there though.
If the twin was still born then the burial registers might be the only way to go.
Luzzu :)
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Esther isn't a twin. She would have the preceeding or following reference to William if she were. I think the stillbirth is the answer.
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So if the twin was a still born, there wouldn't be a time on William's birth certificate then ???.
Luzzu
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Esther Stead doesn't seem to be a still born baby. Her death is registered Q/E Sep 1909, Rochdale Reg Dist.
What is odd about this is that William and Esther are NOT on the same page of the birth register - which twins would normally be.
It may be that the parents thought Esther wasn't going to survive - so decided to 'wait and see' before registering her birth.
Was the name 'Esther' in the family prior to this baby's birth I wonder?
Regards June
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What is odd about this is that William and Esther are NOT on the same page of the birth register - which twins would normally be.
My dad and his twin sister are on the same page of the birth register, but a younger sister, who had a twin who was either stillborn, or died at birth doesn't seem to be registered. I've not got my aunt's birth certificate, so don't know whether the time of her birth is shown or not. I doubt there was an official burial for any stillborn child, as my gran had all her children at home, I imagine the doctor or nurse/midwife would have just got rid of a stillbirth - this was 1917.
Lizzie
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Just checked the references for the twins in my tree and PaulineJ, Pennines and Lizzie are right. My twins have exactly the same reference, although I suppose it could be possible that one twin could be the last entry on a page, and the other twin the first entry on the next page.
Esther Stead doesn't seem to be a still born baby. Her death is registered Q/E Sep 1909, Rochdale Reg Dist.
Esther isn't a still born baby as both her birth and death were registered.
Re the burials of stillborns, Cancan and I have done a lot of research in relation to the Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project and there are many, many stillbirths recorded in the burial registers as she mentioned in her previous post. In some cases the parents names are recorded as well as the address. In one case, (which is unusual) a family have named their stillborn son and had his name inscribed on the gravestone although in the burial register he is not named.
I have just re-read the original post and Jeastead referred to a dead child being recorded on the 1911 census and wondered if this was in fact was William's twin. If the twin was indeed a stillbirth and the census was completed correctly (which wasn't always the case), this child couldn't be the twin because the census question is "Children born alive in the present marriage". Therefore a still born child shouldn't be recorded. I was wondering if Jeastead should be looking for the birth and death of another sibling in addition to the twin she is already looking for.
Luzzu :)
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Luzzu
Do you have access to the stillbirth burial register, I'd love to know if my aunt did in fact have a twin (possibly sister). The family lived in Harpurhey, so not sure if a burial would have been at Manchester General Cemetery.
Lizzie
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Hi,
Having searched through the burial registers of Manchester General Cemetery (Non Conformist only) they do record still born burials. In some cases they put the parents name(sometimes only the surname) and address. As you would have an address form the birth certificate of the other child it might be traceable.
If you have an idea which Cemetery (if it was a cemetery - not sure about Crematoriums- though they possibly would keep the same kind of records) and they have burials registers it's worth a search, as you have said it was a twin. (Though when registering they may not have stated the child as a 'twin')
Do you have any information if the child was a still born or did he/she survive to a certain age?
Searching for the Burial Registers possibly at the Office or a library could help with your search. Or contacting a Crematorium if there was one in the town at that time? They may each offer a search for a fee? Or if you track them down search them for yourself or maybe someone with access would offer to do it for you?
Cancan :)
thank you for the post - I don't have any more information I am afraid. It just was shown on the 1911 census that a child had been born and died so I assumed that this was the twin. I live in Australia but have also asked Touchstones in Rochdale for assistance too.
Thanks again
Jean
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Just checked the references for the twins in my tree and PaulineJ, Pennines and Lizzie are right. My twins have exactly the same reference, although I suppose it could be possible that one twin could be the last entry on a page, and the other twin the first entry on the next page.
Esther Stead doesn't seem to be a still born baby. Her death is registered Q/E Sep 1909, Rochdale Reg Dist.
Esther isn't a still born baby as both her birth and death were registered.
Re the burials of stillborns, Cancan and I have done a lot of research in relation to the Manchester General Cemetery Transcription Project and there are many, many stillbirths recorded in the burial registers as she mentioned in her previous post. In some cases the parents names are recorded as well as the address. In one case, (which is unusual) a family have named their stillborn son and had his name inscribed on the gravestone although in the burial register he is not named.
I have just re-read the original post and Jeastead referred to a dead child being recorded on the 1911 census and wondered if this was in fact was William's twin. If the twin was indeed a stillbirth and the census was completed correctly (which wasn't always the case), this child couldn't be the twin because the census question is "Children born alive in the present marriage". Therefore a still born child shouldn't be recorded. I was wondering if Jeastead should be looking for the birth and death of another sibling in addition to the twin she is already looking for.
Luzzu :)
Hello Luzzu, I think from what other posts have said that you may be right, I should be looking for death of the twin and not a still birth.Thank you for your time and posts. Will try searching for a birth/death but how do you search when you don't have a christian name?
Regards
jeastead
Jeastead.
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thank you all who have answered my post, you have given me more ideas as how to find the twin. Your help is much appreciated.
Regards
Jeastead
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Hi
Lancashire bmds have the following 1909
Stead William Wardleworth Rochdale
Stead Esther " "
There is another William born 1909 but he was born Spotland which in the 1911 is a different family.
I see they were in Wardleworth in 1911.
Thank you again.
Regards
Jean (jeastead)
Cathy
Hi Cathy, Thank you for your post - since receiving it and others on this subject I have had another look at BMD deaths in 1909 in Rochdale and have found a James Thomas Stead who died in the second quarter of 1909 and gives his age as 0 so I guess I will have to send for the certificate to make sure. The family were living in Whitehall St Rochdale on the 1911 census.
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Hi
Lancashire bmds have the following 1909
Stead William Wardleworth Rochdale
Stead Esther " "
There is another William born 1909 but he was born Spotland which in the 1911 is a different family.
I see they were in Wardleworth in 1911.
Thank you again.
Regards
Jean (jeastead)
Cathy
Hi Cathy, Thank you for your post - since receiving it and others on this subject I have had another look at BMD deaths in 1909 in Rochdale and have found a James Thomas Stead who died in the second quarter of 1909 and gives his age as 0 so I guess I will have to send for the certificate to make sure. The family were living in Whitehall St Rochdale on the 1911 census.
Hi again, I noted that one, the only problem I had was finding the birth in Rochdale?
Edit just found it Dec 1908!!
Keyboard86
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Hi
Did they marry in 1904?( Mary Crossley and William Stead)
These are the births and deaths that I could find for Rochdale
Are any of them family names?
Ivy Stead b1903 died 1905 this child would have been born before they married
Jack Craven Stead b1903 d1903 this child born before marriage.
William Stead b1904 d1905
Alice Stead b1905 d1905
Jack Stead b1906 d1906
Alice Stead b1907 d1907
Joseph Stead b1908 d1908
Esther Stead b1909 d1909
James Thomas b1909 d1909
Heather
added: I thought that this information would be helpful if you are looking for another child who died, not the twin.
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You would think though, that twins would be registered in the same quarter.
There are 3 Steads registered in Rochdale in Q/E Jun 1909, Esther, John and William.
Lancs BMD shows that John was from the Castleton No 1 sub district, whereas Esther and William were both in Wardleworth sub district.
No Steads are on the same page of the register as each other though.
If this was me searching, I would firstly obtain William's birth certificate (as has already been suggested) -- to see if there is a time on it.
Or you could risk sending for Esther's death certificate - just to confirm her parents - that would definitely clarify it.
Regards June
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Luzzu
Do you have access to the stillbirth burial register, I'd love to know if my aunt did in fact have a twin (possibly sister). The family lived in Harpurhey, so not sure if a burial would have been at Manchester General Cemetery.
Lizzie
Hi Lizzie,
We access it through the library so if you PM the details we'll certainly check for you.
Luzzu :)