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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: philnash on Friday 06 July 12 18:08 BST (UK)

Title: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Friday 06 July 12 18:08 BST (UK)
I'm stuck here, as I don't have a library card and can't use online searches that need one.

WL Nash was born 25th May 1897 in Sydney, the son of Sidney Herbert Nash and Ellen May nee Kernohan.  At some point he married a Sylvia Marie, and they are buried in Emerald Cemetery, indexed here http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausgbc/emerald%20a%20to%20z.htm.

Having been through records such as I can find for NSW and VIC, I can't trace a marriage, or in announcements in trove.nla.au newspaper archive. It seems to me that this grave must have been at least updated in 1986 to include Sylvia by a child, but as yet I've no trace of any.

Can anyone help please?
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 01:13 BST (UK)
As Sylvia Marie doesn't appear on the electoral rolls until 1954 with William Leonard it's possible that he could have either married late in life (after 1942 in VIC) or possibly a second marriage.

Your best option would be to purchase his death certificate to find the correct information.

https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Death:

NASH William Leonard age 81yrs d. 1978 EMER #26434
Father: Sidney Herbe
Mother: Ellen May  KERNOHAN
Death Place: EMER

On the burial of Sylvia Marie it shows she was born in 1902.
So this is probably her birth in Victoria:

FERGUSON Marie Sylvia b. 1902 HOTH W #26999
Father: Fran Thos
Mother: Angelina BARDI


Found to be deceased in 1904  :(



Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 07 July 12 01:24 BST (UK)
In 1919 WILLIAM LEONARD was with his parents at-
 
69 Williams St. Brighton, Vic

Sue
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Saturday 07 July 12 01:40 BST (UK)
My thanks to both of you for such a quick response- this will give me something to work on tomorrow. Once I have a marriage, I think any children will be easier to find.
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 07 July 12 02:10 BST (UK)
I was having a look on NSW BDM and I can't see any birth for a Nash to a Sidney and Ellen from 1860 to 1911. Am I missing it, or isn't it there?

Jamjar
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Saturday 07 July 12 02:32 BST (UK)
I was having a look on NSW BDM and I can't see any birth for a Nash to a Sidney and Ellen from 1860 to 1911. Am I missing it, or isn't it there?

Jamjar

I've had to piece this together from press cuttings. It's probably in the BMD index for VIC as they were married there in 1896. I think the North Brighton in the birth notice refers to Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney, rather than the similarly named place in Adelaide, SA, because I have no evidence that Sidney Herbert ever lived there.

Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 02:39 BST (UK)

WL Nash was born 25th May 1897 in Sydney, the son of Sidney Herbert Nash and Ellen May nee Kernohan. 


I don't know where you got your information from but he was born in Victoria:

NASH Wm Leonard b. 1897 BRIGHTON #16969
Father: Sidney Herbt
Mother: Ellen May KERNOHAN


Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 07 July 12 02:42 BST (UK)
Or, could he have been born in NSW, and not registered until they got to VIC, as they may have thought it was touch and go with him being premmie.

What year was the newspaper clipping?


Jamjar
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 02:43 BST (UK)
Parents marriage in VIC:

NASH Sidney Herbert (born ENG) m. KERNOHAN Mary Ellen (born MELB P)1896 #6385


Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Saturday 07 July 12 02:45 BST (UK)
Thanks, I obviously don't have access to the online data and have done what I can to piece things together. However, I'll take your comments on board.
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 02:46 BST (UK)
He was born in BRIGHTON, Victoria as per the newspaper notice, birth reg & parents marriage I have listed above.
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Saturday 07 July 12 02:52 BST (UK)
Thanks Merlin, I'm somewhat new at this and always keen to take advice from experts. If you ever need anything from Liverpool, I'll happily oblige.
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 07 July 12 03:17 BST (UK)
Here is ELLEN's death



  NASH Ellen May
Father: Kernohan Wm John
Mother: Joanna  POWER
Death Place: FROY
Age: 76
Year: 1950
Reg Number: 11097


This may be her birth I think.  She had siblings.

KERNOHAN Ellen
Father: William John
Mother: Johanna POWER
Birth Place: STH MELB
Year: 1874
Reg Number: 10679


Sue

Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: Jamjar on Saturday 07 July 12 03:22 BST (UK)
Having a bad day are we Merlin?

Phil, if you got the notices from Trove you can tell what paper it is in by looking at the very top of the page.

Sorry I didn't see the nth Brighton, really must wear my glasses. Brighton-le-Sands doesn't have a 'north'.

You can check here for New South Wales BDM:

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm

Jamjar
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 07 July 12 03:27 BST (UK)
When he died (13th May 1893) ELLEN's father WILLIAM JOHN KERNOHAN left a will.

He was a broker of East Melbourne.

You can view it digitised at

http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54

Sue
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 03:36 BST (UK)

Having a bad day are we Merlin?


Nope,  ;D  8)

How's your back Jamjar  :-*


Sorry Phil, didn't realise you were o/s  :)

I actually have very close ties with Liverpool & surrounding areas via my 4xg-grandfather & his brothers who were very well known over there.

What information do you need regards this NASH family?


Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 03:48 BST (UK)
1903 Victorian Electoral Rolls:

NASH Sydney Herbert, Manager & Helen May, Home Duties living at Middle Crescent, Brighton.
   
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 07 July 12 03:57 BST (UK)
William John married twice.

KERNOHAN William John (Birth Place ANTRIM)
WELLDON Catherine Bertha
Year: 1866
Reg Number: 4201

He and Bertha were divorced.
 
Kernohan   William John & Kernohan Catherine Bertha
Corespondent King Thomas L   [1861-84/128]
Kernohan   William John & Kernohan Catherine Bertha
Corespondent Meachan A P   [1861-84/128]



KERNOHAN William John (Birth Place: ANTRIM)
POWER Johannah
Year: 1873
Reg Number: 582

 Some newspaper details in 1868

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5827467?searchTerm="kernohan v kernohan"&searchLimits=

Sue
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 04:18 BST (UK)
Sidney's death:

NASH Sidney Herbt age 78yrs d. 1948 BRIGHTON #4384
Father: Nash Wm Hy
Mother: Maria  UNKNOWN

Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 04:31 BST (UK)
NASH-KERNOHAN 1896 marriage in the newspaper:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9186218
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 04:37 BST (UK)
Sidney's death notice in the newspaper:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22541229
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 07 July 12 05:41 BST (UK)
On the burial of Sylvia Marie it shows she was born in 1902.
So this is probably her birth in Victoria:

FERGUSON Marie Sylvia b. 1902 HOTH W #26999
Father: Fran Thos
Mother: Angelina BARDI


MERLIN

This child died when she was two.


FERGUSON    Marie
Father: Ferguson Fran
Mother: Angelia BARDI
Age 2
Death Place Melb E
Year 1904
Reg. Number 9780

Sue
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 08:54 BST (UK)
I have edited my previous post to reflect the above.
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 08:55 BST (UK)
Sylvia Marie NASH died 21 Feb 1986

Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Saturday 07 July 12 16:35 BST (UK)
Thanks to all for putting this work in; it's enabled me to clarify and verify some details, not least that the reported birth of a dau to Mrs Wm John Kernohan in 1976 was not Ellen May but her younger sister Florence Kate (1876 - 1934). Yes she had other siblings, Walter H (died young) and William John (jnr), who died in October 1967.

So we still don't have a surname for Sylvia Marie- and, believe me, I've spent hours going through Trove with all the combinations I can think of, l but the OCR is somewhat capricious and occasionally throws up some howlers (e.g. "the oily daughter of..." and "sadly missed by his roving wife"). There's a stand-up routine in there somewhere!

This also leaves whether William Leonard and Sylvia Marie had either previously married, and whether they had children other than step-children. Clearly their grave was updated on her death in 1986 by someone, and that would be interesting to know.

As for Liverpool, my interests are mostly confined to my own tree, which includes Cornish (originally from Frome, Somerset), Piggott, Gaffney, Heap, Sandilands and Parkes, plus Waddington of Cotham, Lincolnshire and Nash of Wandsworth/Clapham.

Cheers!
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Saturday 07 July 12 17:10 BST (UK)

So we still don't have a surname for Sylvia Marie- and, believe me, I've spent hours going through Trove with all the combinations I can think of.
This also leaves whether William Leonard and Sylvia Marie had either previously married, and whether they had children other than step-children. Clearly their grave was updated on her death in 1986 by someone, and that would be interesting to know.


As privacy laws are very strict in AUS your best & probably only option would be to purchase William's death certificate from the information I gave you in my reply #1. Victorian death certificates are a wealth of information nothing like the UK ones that have very little. It costs $20 to pay online & download the certificate instantly to your computer, there is no waiting for it to arrive via email or post.

This is the information available on Victorian death certificates:
Name    
Date of death   
Death place    
Age    
Occupation    
Cause of death    
Parents names    
Spouse(s) names    
Marriage details    
Age at marriage   
Children's names       
No of children       
Birthplace        
Residency    
Burial place    
Informant
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Tuesday 10 July 12 01:03 BST (UK)
Thanks Merlin, that seems to be a good place to start.
Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: cando on Tuesday 10 July 12 06:05 BST (UK)
There is another possibility - a birth in 1902 in Victoria with a variation on the spelling of her given name.

WATTS Silvia Marie
Father James Salter  Mother Henrietta Gertrude FARRELY
At Caulfied  1902  Reg#25081

On the electoral rolls her name is Sylvia Marie WATTS.  Her father was an architect.  Sylvia is on the electoral rolls in Elsternwick to 1943 and Malvern to 1954 with occupation clerk, and if she is the wife of Wm L, at Main road, Emerald until 1977 and in 1980 Belgrave-Gembrook Road, Clematis.

Thos WATTS, architect - mention of James Salter WATTS.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0olh/

Parents marriage in Western Australia

WATTS James Salter
FARRELLY Henrietta Gertrude
District Perth  1896  Reg#775

Deaths
WATTS James Salter
Father Thomas  Mother Martha SALTER
At Malvern  84 years  1951  Reg#4266

WATTS Henrietta Gertrude
Father FARRELLY  Terence   Mother Caroline  GRESWELL
At East St Kilda  85 years  1950  Reg#341

The deaths of Sylvia's siblings

WALKER Sheila Mary  [born Caulfied 1904]
Father Watts James Sa  Mother Henrietta G  FARRELLY
At Olinda  54 years  1958  Reg#4508

PALLAS Mary Genesta  [Born Western Australia 1897]
Father Watts James Sa  Mother Henrietta G  FARRELLY
At Caulfied  64 years  1962  Reg#5632

Sylvia Marie NASH had a will lodged for probate
http://scvprobate.com.au/probate/Search/ApplicationIndex.aspx

Cando






Title: Re: William Leonard NASH - NSW/VIC
Post by: philnash on Friday 13 July 12 00:02 BST (UK)
Thanks for the details of Sylvia Marie- checking through press cuttings etc, this is a good place to start, and her will should indicate whether there were any surviving rellies.  I think also that William Leonard's death certificate will assist with the date of the marriage, because so far it is eluding me! Cheers.