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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: philnash on Friday 06 July 12 18:08 BST (UK)
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I'm stuck here, as I don't have a library card and can't use online searches that need one.
WL Nash was born 25th May 1897 in Sydney, the son of Sidney Herbert Nash and Ellen May nee Kernohan. At some point he married a Sylvia Marie, and they are buried in Emerald Cemetery, indexed here http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausgbc/emerald%20a%20to%20z.htm.
Having been through records such as I can find for NSW and VIC, I can't trace a marriage, or in announcements in trove.nla.au newspaper archive. It seems to me that this grave must have been at least updated in 1986 to include Sylvia by a child, but as yet I've no trace of any.
Can anyone help please?
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As Sylvia Marie doesn't appear on the electoral rolls until 1954 with William Leonard it's possible that he could have either married late in life (after 1942 in VIC) or possibly a second marriage.
Your best option would be to purchase his death certificate to find the correct information.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Death:
NASH William Leonard age 81yrs d. 1978 EMER #26434
Father: Sidney Herbe
Mother: Ellen May KERNOHAN
Death Place: EMER
On the burial of Sylvia Marie it shows she was born in 1902.
So this is probably her birth in Victoria:
FERGUSON Marie Sylvia b. 1902 HOTH W #26999
Father: Fran Thos
Mother: Angelina BARDI
Found to be deceased in 1904 :(
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In 1919 WILLIAM LEONARD was with his parents at-
69 Williams St. Brighton, Vic
Sue
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My thanks to both of you for such a quick response- this will give me something to work on tomorrow. Once I have a marriage, I think any children will be easier to find.
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I was having a look on NSW BDM and I can't see any birth for a Nash to a Sidney and Ellen from 1860 to 1911. Am I missing it, or isn't it there?
Jamjar
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I was having a look on NSW BDM and I can't see any birth for a Nash to a Sidney and Ellen from 1860 to 1911. Am I missing it, or isn't it there?
Jamjar
I've had to piece this together from press cuttings. It's probably in the BMD index for VIC as they were married there in 1896. I think the North Brighton in the birth notice refers to Brighton-Le-Sands, Sydney, rather than the similarly named place in Adelaide, SA, because I have no evidence that Sidney Herbert ever lived there.
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WL Nash was born 25th May 1897 in Sydney, the son of Sidney Herbert Nash and Ellen May nee Kernohan.
I don't know where you got your information from but he was born in Victoria:
NASH Wm Leonard b. 1897 BRIGHTON #16969
Father: Sidney Herbt
Mother: Ellen May KERNOHAN
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Or, could he have been born in NSW, and not registered until they got to VIC, as they may have thought it was touch and go with him being premmie.
What year was the newspaper clipping?
Jamjar
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Parents marriage in VIC:
NASH Sidney Herbert (born ENG) m. KERNOHAN Mary Ellen (born MELB P)1896 #6385
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Thanks, I obviously don't have access to the online data and have done what I can to piece things together. However, I'll take your comments on board.
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He was born in BRIGHTON, Victoria as per the newspaper notice, birth reg & parents marriage I have listed above.
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Thanks Merlin, I'm somewhat new at this and always keen to take advice from experts. If you ever need anything from Liverpool, I'll happily oblige.
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Here is ELLEN's death
NASH Ellen May
Father: Kernohan Wm John
Mother: Joanna POWER
Death Place: FROY
Age: 76
Year: 1950
Reg Number: 11097
This may be her birth I think. She had siblings.
KERNOHAN Ellen
Father: William John
Mother: Johanna POWER
Birth Place: STH MELB
Year: 1874
Reg Number: 10679
Sue
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Having a bad day are we Merlin?
Phil, if you got the notices from Trove you can tell what paper it is in by looking at the very top of the page.
Sorry I didn't see the nth Brighton, really must wear my glasses. Brighton-le-Sands doesn't have a 'north'.
You can check here for New South Wales BDM:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
Jamjar
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When he died (13th May 1893) ELLEN's father WILLIAM JOHN KERNOHAN left a will.
He was a broker of East Melbourne.
You can view it digitised at
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
Sue
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Having a bad day are we Merlin?
Nope, ;D 8)
How's your back Jamjar :-*
Sorry Phil, didn't realise you were o/s :)
I actually have very close ties with Liverpool & surrounding areas via my 4xg-grandfather & his brothers who were very well known over there.
What information do you need regards this NASH family?
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1903 Victorian Electoral Rolls:
NASH Sydney Herbert, Manager & Helen May, Home Duties living at Middle Crescent, Brighton.
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William John married twice.
KERNOHAN William John (Birth Place ANTRIM)
WELLDON Catherine Bertha
Year: 1866
Reg Number: 4201
He and Bertha were divorced.
Kernohan William John & Kernohan Catherine Bertha
Corespondent King Thomas L [1861-84/128]
Kernohan William John & Kernohan Catherine Bertha
Corespondent Meachan A P [1861-84/128]
KERNOHAN William John (Birth Place: ANTRIM)
POWER Johannah
Year: 1873
Reg Number: 582
Some newspaper details in 1868
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5827467?searchTerm="kernohan v kernohan"&searchLimits=
Sue
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Sidney's death:
NASH Sidney Herbt age 78yrs d. 1948 BRIGHTON #4384
Father: Nash Wm Hy
Mother: Maria UNKNOWN
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NASH-KERNOHAN 1896 marriage in the newspaper:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9186218
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Sidney's death notice in the newspaper:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22541229
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On the burial of Sylvia Marie it shows she was born in 1902.
So this is probably her birth in Victoria:
FERGUSON Marie Sylvia b. 1902 HOTH W #26999
Father: Fran Thos
Mother: Angelina BARDI
MERLIN
This child died when she was two.
FERGUSON Marie
Father: Ferguson Fran
Mother: Angelia BARDI
Age 2
Death Place Melb E
Year 1904
Reg. Number 9780
Sue
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I have edited my previous post to reflect the above.
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Sylvia Marie NASH died 21 Feb 1986
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Thanks to all for putting this work in; it's enabled me to clarify and verify some details, not least that the reported birth of a dau to Mrs Wm John Kernohan in 1976 was not Ellen May but her younger sister Florence Kate (1876 - 1934). Yes she had other siblings, Walter H (died young) and William John (jnr), who died in October 1967.
So we still don't have a surname for Sylvia Marie- and, believe me, I've spent hours going through Trove with all the combinations I can think of, l but the OCR is somewhat capricious and occasionally throws up some howlers (e.g. "the oily daughter of..." and "sadly missed by his roving wife"). There's a stand-up routine in there somewhere!
This also leaves whether William Leonard and Sylvia Marie had either previously married, and whether they had children other than step-children. Clearly their grave was updated on her death in 1986 by someone, and that would be interesting to know.
As for Liverpool, my interests are mostly confined to my own tree, which includes Cornish (originally from Frome, Somerset), Piggott, Gaffney, Heap, Sandilands and Parkes, plus Waddington of Cotham, Lincolnshire and Nash of Wandsworth/Clapham.
Cheers!
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So we still don't have a surname for Sylvia Marie- and, believe me, I've spent hours going through Trove with all the combinations I can think of.
This also leaves whether William Leonard and Sylvia Marie had either previously married, and whether they had children other than step-children. Clearly their grave was updated on her death in 1986 by someone, and that would be interesting to know.
As privacy laws are very strict in AUS your best & probably only option would be to purchase William's death certificate from the information I gave you in my reply #1. Victorian death certificates are a wealth of information nothing like the UK ones that have very little. It costs $20 to pay online & download the certificate instantly to your computer, there is no waiting for it to arrive via email or post.
This is the information available on Victorian death certificates:
Name
Date of death
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents names
Spouse(s) names
Marriage details
Age at marriage
Children's names
No of children
Birthplace
Residency
Burial place
Informant
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Thanks Merlin, that seems to be a good place to start.
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There is another possibility - a birth in 1902 in Victoria with a variation on the spelling of her given name.
WATTS Silvia Marie
Father James Salter Mother Henrietta Gertrude FARRELY
At Caulfied 1902 Reg#25081
On the electoral rolls her name is Sylvia Marie WATTS. Her father was an architect. Sylvia is on the electoral rolls in Elsternwick to 1943 and Malvern to 1954 with occupation clerk, and if she is the wife of Wm L, at Main road, Emerald until 1977 and in 1980 Belgrave-Gembrook Road, Clematis.
Thos WATTS, architect - mention of James Salter WATTS.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0olh/
Parents marriage in Western Australia
WATTS James Salter
FARRELLY Henrietta Gertrude
District Perth 1896 Reg#775
Deaths
WATTS James Salter
Father Thomas Mother Martha SALTER
At Malvern 84 years 1951 Reg#4266
WATTS Henrietta Gertrude
Father FARRELLY Terence Mother Caroline GRESWELL
At East St Kilda 85 years 1950 Reg#341
The deaths of Sylvia's siblings
WALKER Sheila Mary [born Caulfied 1904]
Father Watts James Sa Mother Henrietta G FARRELLY
At Olinda 54 years 1958 Reg#4508
PALLAS Mary Genesta [Born Western Australia 1897]
Father Watts James Sa Mother Henrietta G FARRELLY
At Caulfied 64 years 1962 Reg#5632
Sylvia Marie NASH had a will lodged for probate
http://scvprobate.com.au/probate/Search/ApplicationIndex.aspx
Cando
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Thanks for the details of Sylvia Marie- checking through press cuttings etc, this is a good place to start, and her will should indicate whether there were any surviving rellies. I think also that William Leonard's death certificate will assist with the date of the marriage, because so far it is eluding me! Cheers.