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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: lorna llan on Thursday 05 July 12 20:48 BST (UK)

Title: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: lorna llan on Thursday 05 July 12 20:48 BST (UK)
This is a scan of photocopies of a carte de visite, very unsatisfactory, I know. But I'm not especially interested in the photo itself, because the original can be properly duplicated later on.
I am looking to find out the approximate age of the image and if I can learn something about the uniform, that might be a clue to the sitter.
 I am hoping that someone may know something about Clayton and Co, Magnet Studios,  Bareilly, Ranikhet. I know Ranikhet was a hill station. I haven't been able to find Clayton and Co or Magnet Studios though.
 I am hope the soldier in question might  be John Alexander Sutherland born in England in 1878, who died in East Africa in the course of WW1.   He went out to S Africa in the 1890's.  Any help with dating would be much appreciated.  Does the uniform give any clues?

Another candidate for this picture is Andrew Minto who died in Lucknow in 1858 aged 34. He had been a sergeant in logistics in the Indian Army at the time of his death.  However I think the style of the artwork on the back of the picture might be later than the 1860's, but am happy to be told otherwise.
Title: Re: Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: japeflakes on Thursday 05 July 12 21:02 BST (UK)
Sorry, restoration not required so removed:
Title: Re: Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: PrueM on Thursday 05 July 12 22:51 BST (UK)
Hi lorna llan :)

What did you want doing to the photo?  Were you after restoration as well as dating? 

For a date, I'd go for the 1890s, which is suggested by the design on the back of the card.  If you want to try to identify his uniform, I can put a link on the Armed Forces board asking for the experts there to come and have a look and give their advice :)

Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: mahalia on Friday 06 July 12 01:17 BST (UK)
Something a little different but you might like it

Cheers

Maureen
Title: Re: Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: lorna llan on Friday 06 July 12 07:28 BST (UK)
Thanks to mahalia and japeflakes for producing those improvements. Straight edges and borders really do add something!   :)
However, I was really after some help with the dating of this picture; should have made that clear in the title line. The type of uniform would be a help with that, as well as the design on the back.  I don't know where to start with military uniform matters and would be glad to get some guidance on that.
Title: Re: Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: PrueM on Friday 06 July 12 08:43 BST (UK)
I've posted a message on the Armed Forces board:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,605307.0.html
 :)
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: charles w on Friday 06 July 12 12:27 BST (UK)
.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: PrueM on Friday 06 July 12 23:38 BST (UK)
Folks, please remember to respect the wishes of the poster - they have asked for a date and uniform ID only, not restoration  :)
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: philipsearching on Saturday 07 July 12 03:04 BST (UK)
Joseph Byron Clayton and Walter Clayton set up the Magnet Studio in Leicester in 1873; the partnership dissolved in 1874, Walter Clayton revived the name in 1880 and kept the studio in Leicester until 1888 when he moved premises to Portland House, retiring in 1892 and dying in 1893.  Joseph Byron Clayton was in England until he emigrated to the USA in 1888, where he lived until his death in 1923.  I can't find a reference to Clayton's Magnet Studio in India.

Going by hairstyle - I would expect muttonchop type sideburns in the Indian Mutiny period - the hairstyle and jacket collar look Edwardian to me.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: lorna llan on Saturday 07 July 12 12:51 BST (UK)
Clayton's Magnet Studios looks like an early example of franchising then, capitalising on the good brand name in England. Thanks for that.  That nifty hairstyle and moustache do look more Edwardian, as you say.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: alan o on Thursday 16 August 12 16:44 BST (UK)
The rose collar badges would make him a member of the East Lancashire Regiment.  The uniform is of the type worn in India at the turn of the century and that date ties in with the haircut and moustache.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: lorna llan on Thursday 16 August 12 20:00 BST (UK)
The East Lancashire Regiment would be about right for a person from Manchester, which is where John Sutherland lived.  I suppose that picture is of a private soldier? What are the distinguishing features of that type of uniform worn in India around then?
Thanks for your help! Now I can see if I can find him in records, or records of the movements of the regiment.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: Leah-WW on Thursday 16 August 12 21:57 BST (UK)
I too would say the closing years of the 19th century, based on his rather dandy moustache & haircut. Handsome chappy, whoever he is :)
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: alan o on Friday 17 August 12 08:03 BST (UK)
The 2nd Bn East Lancashire Regiment was in India 1897-1911.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: PicScanner on Saturday 03 August 13 12:49 BST (UK)
Jumping in late into this discussion, but hoping some of this furthers your research a bit.

Ranikhet and Bareilly were (and still are) garrison towns in colonial India. They are located 110 miles apart, so the Magnet Studios were probably two branches under common ownership.

I don't find any records of Joseph Byron Clayton or kin moving to India, so were the Indian Magnet Studios bonafide franchises or not? Doesn't really matter, but it does look like someone leveraging upon the brand back home. As philipsearching noted, Joseph Byron Clayton opened Magnet Studio in Leicester in 1873 (see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~brett/photos/eng/ntt/wclayton.html) so the Magnet studios in India must have come after it. If true, this rules out Andrew Minto who died in 1858. This leaves John Alexander Sutherland (b. 1878, left for Africa in 1890s) in the frame. The subject in your photo could be 18-22 years old, which would tie in with this.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: lorna llan on Saturday 03 August 13 14:05 BST (UK)
Thanks for that. Will look up Clayton's website.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: trullwell on Thursday 08 August 13 22:57 BST (UK)
The collar badges are not clear enough to be sure but they look very like the globe and laurel of the Royal Marines.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: alan o on Friday 09 August 13 07:22 BST (UK)
Far more likely to be an infantry regt rather than the Royal Marines in India.  Several Yorkshire and Lancashire regts wore rose design collar badges.
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: lorna llan on Friday 09 August 13 11:11 BST (UK)
Is there a website or even a book with details of uniform for Yorkshire/Lancashire regiments circa 1900?
Title: Re: Date and ID of Photo of British soldier from Ranikhet, India
Post by: alan o on Friday 09 August 13 11:31 BST (UK)
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/

This site is free and there is an unknown section which you can post your picture in.  They will know immediately.