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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Flintshire => Wales => Flintshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: EJ on Wednesday 04 July 12 12:21 BST (UK)
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Looking for the baptismal record of Charles GRIFFITHS b abt 1857 in Connah's Quay. He may also have been named Charles William GRIFFITHS as a correction was made to his marriage certificate in 1881 adding the William.
His father was John GRIFFITHS who was involved with the New Methodist Connexion in Connah's Quay. His mother was either Mary or Elizabeth (or perhaps Mary Elizabeth or vice versa).
He may also have a sister, Mary Elizabeth b about 1854 in Connah's Quay.
The family is believed to have lived at Nine Houses, Shotton.
Grateful for any help.
Lizzie
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Free BMD gives his birth to have been in the Great Boughton District of Cheshire in the Oct/Nov/Dec quarter of 1956,Volume 8a,Page 333.Regardless perhaps of how he may have been recorded in census entries he is named as Charles William Griffiths.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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This is from the IGI
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X11J-NMZ
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X11J-NMZ
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X11N-24D
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My thanks to both of you for such quick responses :)
I should have mentioned that I had already sent off for a b/c for a Charles William GRIFFITHS (reg Gt Boughton, Cheshire). He was born 18 Nov 1856 at Shotton and gave his father as John GRIFFITHS - Guard on Railway and his mother as Mary GRIFFITHS (nee HEWITT). That b/c ties in with the IGI baptismal record too.
However, my gut feeling is that this is NOT the Charles I am looking for and suspect his would have been a Holywell registered birth, possibly without the William.
Thanks again
Lizzie
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1861 for Shotton - Nine Houses
John Griffiths 29 butcher b Shrewsbury Shropshire
Mary 28 b Hawarden
Mary E 7 b Heywood Lancs
Charles W 4 b Hawarden
Caroline 2 ditto
Stephen Hewitt 24 lodger b Hawarden
RG9 Piece 2633 Folio 108 Page 21
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John & Mary married in 1852 in Lancashire as per freebmd
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJTH-J8W
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Well Lizzie,whilst I can accept that you should want these matters of a direct relative to be correct,let me say first of all that someone born in Connahs Quay/Shotton at that time would not have been registered in the Holywell District.I'm not offering that as perhaps my considered opinion but rather that of the co-ordinator of the North Wales BMD,Dafydd Hayes who I have just spoken to about the matter.He has forgotten more than I will ever know about Genealogy!
Of course I can accept the apparent difficulties that you face,given that Charles William died in 1882 and that you have no further Census evidence to connect with the earlier birth.One vital fact perhaps you didn't give,seeing that you have the 1856 Birth Certificate is the actual place of birth which would have been given?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The family is believed to have lived at Nine Houses, Shotton
And that is where they were in 1861 - see above
However, my gut feeling is that this is NOT the Charles I am looking for
So tell us about the Charles you are looking for. You mention a marriage certificate in 1881 - what is his fathers actual occupation as shown on the marriage cert
Who were the witnesses?
What address is shown for Charles on that cert
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It may be difficult to understand,someone born in Connahs Quay at that time would indeed come under the Holywell Registraton District.However someone born in Shotton as was the case with Charles William as we see was registered in the Great Boughton Registration District under Cheshire.The birth of Charles William does show up on Cheshire BMD as within the Hawarden Sub District.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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There is a baptism record for a Charles William Griffiths in hawarden flints in 1857 but i don't have a subscription to look for you and don't know if i can say the site on here but starts with f and ends with past
Wendy
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That baptism is the same one as found on the IGI and shown above in my reply above
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X11J-NMZ
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William and others, thank you for your input which I really appreciate.
If you will bear with me, I'll list the information I have and perhaps you can help me decide where to start looking for various certificates.
In the time honoured way of family historians, I will start by working backwards and apologise in advance for the length of this note:
1881 Charles GRIFFITHS married Matilda WILLIAMS on 21 June 1881 in Acton, Cheshire. His age was given as 24, hers as 22. The marriage record was corrected by the Curate on 23 Dec 1881 to include the name "William" after Charles. Charles' place of residence was Hawarden (Flintshire), and his father was John GRIFFITHS, Ship broker. Matilda came from Acton and her father was Daniel WILLIAMS, farmer. Witnesses were Thomas ELLIS and Fanny WILLIAMS.
Family lore told of Charles drowning young (confirmed by maritime record as a "supposed drowning" whilst Master of the Accrington Lass in November 1882, aged 24).
His father, John GRIFFITHS was very involved with the Sabbath School at Connah's Quay run by the New Methodist Connexion.
Censuses
I found John GRIFFITHS in 1881 at Nine Houses, Shotton
John GRIFFITHS (60) Ship broker's clerk, b Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Elizabeth GRIFFITHS (63) b Shotton, Flint
Elizabeth ELLIS (12) g/dau b Hawarden
John died in 1897 as his Probate record indicated he lived at Nine Houses, and was a Shipper at the time of his death.
His widow, Elizabeth, appears in 1901 census (aged 73), still at Nine Houses, together with her g/dau Elizabeth ELLIS (22) and Charles ELLIS (10 months), gt/grandson.
In 1911 Elizabeth is still at Nine Houses (84), together with her g/dau Elizabeth ROBERTS (nee ELLIS) (32), widow, Charles ROBERTS (prev ELLIS) (10), Mary ROBERTS (7), , Thomas John ROBERTS (5)
Elizabeth died in 1916 and probate was granted to Thomas ELLIS (plumber).
However, in 1871 the only John GRIFFITHS I can find in Nine Houses is
John GRIFFITHS (40) b Shrewsbury, Shropshire, butcher and local preacher.
Mary (38) b Shotton together with Charles William (14), Caroline (12), John (9), Thomas (7)
1861 Nine Houses
John GRIFFITHS (29) butcher b Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Mary (28), Mary E (7), Charles W (4), Caroline (2)
Stephen HEWITT (24) lodger
The birth certificate I have received for Charles William GRIFFITHS
Born: 18 Nov 1856 Shotton, Hawarden.
Father, John GRIFFITHS, Guard on Railway
Mother: Mary formerly HEWITT
Registration: Great Boughton
Subdistrict - Hawarden
Counties: Chester & Flint
Questions:
1. Do you think I have the right family for Charles William GRIFFITHS?
2. I am puzzled by John GRIFFITHS' occupations: 1856 guard on railway, 1861, 1871 butcher, 1881 commercial clerk, 1891 Ship broker's clerk, Shipper. However, being the local preacher does seem to fit with the family stories.
3. I was also puzzled as to the change in the names and slight change in ages of John GRIFFITHS' wife but have had an "Aha" moment whilst writing all this out!
a) Mary must have died between 1871 and 1881 (which registration area would I look for her death?)
b) Then John remarried to Elizabeth HEWITT late in 1872 (reg Holywell) - perhaps she was Mary's sister, which seems to be borne out by Carole W's suggestion of an 1852 marriage in Lancashire (Manchester) to Mary HEWITT.
Thank you all for your patience!
Lizzie