RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: cannonhill on Sunday 01 July 12 13:03 BST (UK)
-
I am trying to determine the exact names and details about the parents of Thomas Henry Hall who was born on 5 April 1824 in Leeds and hopefully earlier generations. I note from some records that his parents were William and Mary Hall, but there are more than one couple with these christian names. I would like to get some steer on how to determine his mother's maiden name and the birth details of both of his parents and hopefully earlier generations, and once I have these, whether he had siblings. If someone could assist me with where to go for records that could help me determine this, it would be most welcomed. On Thomas' baptism certificate it states that his father was a Wool Stapler. My guess at this stage is that quite possibly both his parents were from Leeds too, but that is a guess.
Many thanks
Bill
-
I cant help much here but for others trying to help;
Thomas was born 05 April 1824 but not christened til 26 May 1844, Birstall St Peter, Parents William/Mary, Fathers Occp Wool Stapler
Mother Mary appears on the 1851 Census with Thos as born c 1788 Cotterick, Yorks.
HO107/2308/47/7
-
Trish, could Cotterick not be Catterick?
Catterick being home to the famous Catterick Garrison (millitary camp)
Brian
-
Yes that is quite possible just misheard by enumerator :)
-
Thank you to those who provided information. I suspect the baptism some 20 years later in 1844 after his birth in 1824 could be a transcription error. Shame his parents had such common christian names.
-
Adult Baptisms are not as uncommon as you would think.
Do you have his M/C to confirm his Fathers name/occp ?
Trish :)
-
I do have the marriage certificate for Thomas Henry Hall to Eliza Milner (both of Bradford). They were married on 19 January 1853 at the Parish Church in the Parish of Bradford. On the certificate it states that Thomas' father was William Hall, who was a Wool Stapler. Eliza's father was William Milner, Cloth Manufacturer. No mention of either father being deceased at the time of the wedding but that may not mean a great deal.
-
I have just noticed the 1851c Mary Hall widow with son Tom Henry
If the Birtstall late adult baptism is correct 1844 of Thomas Henry Hall parents Willaim and Mary Hall
Father William dead by 1851c and poss could have been alive 1844, also being a trades man in Wool, this could mean he may have left a Will/probate between 1844 and say probate date up to 1853
-
2 possible bapts
William Hall
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 25 Dec 1790 BIRSTALL,YORK,ENGLAND
parents: Mary Hall
William Hall
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 02 Dec 1792 BIRSTALL,YORK,ENGLAND
parents: William Hall
-
Another possible but different to Birtsall, line you could follow up is in link
If this is your William then remarried before 1817 to Mrs Mary Hall
Listed in the 1817 Baines Directory of Leeds is William HALL, hatter and woolstapler and agent to the London Union Fire Office, at 91 Briggate. There is also Mary HALL,straw hat maker, of the same address.
Would it have been necessary for William to have to undertake an apprenticeship as a hatter or woolstapler in order to trade? If so, where would I be likely to find records of these apprenticeships?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-YKS-LEEDS/2009-01/1232572673
-
Goodness me, that is some amount of information to digest!
Unless he was living elsewhere, I believe that William Hall (father of Thomas Henry) was already deceased by the time of the 1851 Census. As someone pointed out earlier, Mary is shown as living with her son Thomas Henry at 9 Victoria Street, Bradford at this time, with Mary as head of the house.
-
Hi
I'm going to our library, as they have Birstall PR's and have a look at this baptism 1844 of Thomas Henry Hall son of William & Mary- There maybe an index book as for William's death year and age at death before 1851c Also look for other siblings that may have been baptised at the same time as Tom Henry.
Birstall mother church St Peter with chapelries of other village parish's that have abodes near or cross border close to Leeds hamlets of Morley, Pudsey (between Bradford and Leeds) and a few others.
As to William and Mary's Hall nee maiden name unknown~ Marriage~~~ Born/bapt Catterick ? Tall order that one!!! being pre GRO 1837 or 1841c nothing as a clue only Catterick birth place for Mary.
We'll see what turns up.
-
Baptism, St Peter, Birstall
26 May 1844
Thomas Henry, born April 5 1824, son of William (a wool stapler) and Mary HALL, of Leeds.
This is very clearly entered in the register of baptisms, in the proper chronological place for May 1844, and there is no reason to think there is an error. There are no siblings baptised at the same time.
-
Beginning to wish my surname was something a little more unusual than HALL! Thank you for help and offers of help. I know that about 50 years ago a relative of mine tried to do the family tree and from what I am told, hit the brick wall on William Hall too.
-
Hi
Just to add to the above Tom Henry born 1824 Bapt 1844 info Page 26 ~entry 201 ~St Peter Birstall
~vicar~WM Heald
.....................................................................................................................
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,447837.10.html
...............................................................................................................
St Bartholomew ~Leeds Chapelry of Armley Burials 1877~page 3 ~entry 23
Thomas Henry Hall ~ age 53 ~ Feb 24 th 1877 ~Abode Manchester ~ curate:- Upton Wooler or Woolar
.....................................................................................................................
1841 c Kirgate Otley
Thomas Henry Hall age 15 apprentice (grocer ?)born Yorkshire
Living in same building as William Foster age 50 (5 year rounf off)
Soppie Foster age 50 (5 year rounf off)
Plus silbling as other post.
.....................................................................................................................
1851c ( Victoria St Manningham Bradford
Mary Hall widow age 53 born Cotterick
Thomas Henry son age 26 unmarried ~Cashier in Timber Hall born Leeds (Thomas Henry was a Cashier on his
marriage register 1853)
.....................................................................................................................
1861c
5 Back Province st Leeds
Mary Hall widow (Head) age 73 House keeper born Ireland
Family lodging with her
Robert Slinger aged 29 married
Elizabeth Slinger aged 32 married
Plus their siblings
......................................................................................................................
-
EITHER
HALL William 1829 1796 Leeds Yorkshire
HALL William 1830 1784 Leeds
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/parish-records/results?event=D&recordCount=-1&forenames=william&includeForenamesVariants=true&_includeForenamesVariants=on&surname=HALL&_includeSurnameVariants=on&eventYear=&eventYearTolerance=5&birthYear=1788&birthYearTolerance=10&county=WRY&place=
Deaths Sep 1866
HALL Mary AGE 76 Bradford, Yk. 9b 49
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
-
Just spotted this
1861c 14 Salem Street
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
HALL Thomas Hy Head M M 36 Wholesale Teas,Oils Emp 1 Man Yorkshire - Leeds
HALL Eliza Wife M F 32 Yorkshire - Armley
HALL Charles Hy Son - M 7 Scholar Yorkshire - Bradford
HALL Emily Dau - F 4 Scholar Yorkshire - Bradford
HALL Fredrick Wm Son - M 2 Yorkshire - Bradford
WALKER Mary Ann Servnt U F 18 House Servant Yorkshire - Pateley Bridge
~~~~~~~~
1861c 8 Salem Street
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
TAYLOR George Head M M 29 Joiner Yorkshire - Bradford
TAYLOR Ellen Walton Wife M F 25 Yorkshire - Huddersfield
TAYLOR Thomas Son - M 6 Scholar Yorkshire - Bradford
TAYLOR Emeline Dau - F 5 Scholar Yorkshire - Bradford
Page: 51/32 TAYLOR Julia Dau - F 2 Yorkshire - Bradford
TAYLOR Herbert W Son - M 10m Yorkshire - Bradford
KAYE Sarah Ma-Law M F 60 On A Visit Lancashire - Manchester
Groom's Name: William Hall
Bride's Name: Mary Taylor
Marriage Date: 03 Jan 1812
Marriage Place: Saint Peter,Leeds,York,England
Mary Taylor
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 24 Oct 1787 Catterick, York, England
residence: Catterick, York, England
parents: Philip Taylor, Mary Taylor
-
Amazing information and thank you very much for going to so much trouble. The proximity of the Taylor and Hall families in Salem Street is definitely a vital piece of information that would appear to suggest that is source of the William and Mary union. Once again, thank you.
Bill
-
Hi
Thomas seems to follow his wife's father in in the Tea selling business, also their Armley links as his burial. ( This makes me think Thomas H was influenced by others.) Yet he moves to Lancashire after this 1861c. This Taylor family at number 8 Salem Street have links to Manchester also without odd numbers they are only 3 doors away down the street.
But keep in mind though ! both Hall and Taylor are common names ?
-
The route I would take now! is to look at the possible marriages, the possible brides fathers deaths/burials for their Wills/probate or Administration probate.(If they left one) . In their wills they mention/refer too their married daughters by their married name.
These Wills are either pre 1857/8 probate at the Borthwick institute centre at York university library just out side York in Yorkshire 5 min by bus from the city centre or railstation. ( A week hol in York maybe compared to search charges at Borthwick ;D )-The Index are easy to use and Wills found on micro film ( 20p a page copies). Post 1857/8 probate/Will you have to sent for and the post 1857/8 Wills Calendar Index are online in Ancestry.com on Free library edition public computers, or at home on subscribed Ancestry.co.uk also alot of main local studies libraries and archives have their own index. The Post 1857/8 calendar index do give a brief statement with locations and names~ free before purchasing the actual Will ( about £8)
:)
-
Ps.
Another way is to start and eliminate marriages, by occupations, Wills, eact locations in census, sibling bapt locations and tracing siblings in census. Burial info on gravestone epitaphs, family graves, sibling infant burials info can help in the broad picture and also their religion or place of worship or BMD events, some maybe poor! in poorlaw records.
Elimination is a big apart of ancestry! as ones own ancestry searching.
Mr Doyle!_Sherlock Holmes -Whatever is left! must be true! stuff~no matter! however improbable.
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=605221.msg4548378
-
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/ENG-YKS-LEEDS/2008-04/1208905712
-
Hi
Just to add to the above Tom Henry born 1824 Bapt 1844 info Page 26 ~entry 201 ~St Peter Birstall
~vicar~WM Heald
.....................................................................................................................
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,447837.10.html
...............................................................................................................
St Bartholomew ~Leeds Chapelry of Armley Burials 1877~page 3 ~entry 23
Thomas Henry Hall ~ age 53 ~ Feb 24 th 1877 ~Abode Manchester ~ curate:- Upton Wooler or Woolar
.....................................................................................................................
1841 c Kirkgate Otley
Thomas Henry Hall age 15 apprentice (grocer ?)born Yorkshire
Living in same building as William Foster age 50 (5 year rounf off)
Soppie Foster age 50 (5 year rounf off)
Plus silbling as other post.
.....................................................................................................................
1851c ( Victoria St Manningham Bradford
Mary Hall widow age 53 born Cotterick
Thomas Henry son age 26 unmarried ~Cashier in Timber Hall born Leeds (Thomas Henry was a Cashier on his
marriage register 1853)
.....................................................................................................................
1861c
5 Back Province st Leeds
Mary Hall widow (Head) age 73 House keeper born Ireland
Family lodging with her
Robert Slinger aged 29 married
Elizabeth Slinger aged 32 married
Plus their siblings
......................................................................................................................
-
William Hall married Isabella Asbridge from Cockermouth in 1799, producing 8 children before her death in 1810. He then married Mary Taylor, a spinster in 1812, their first child Phillip Taylor Hall being born about 1819 (died 1837) and second child, Thomas Henry Hall in 1824. William, the father died in 1828...I have a copy of his will mentioning all 10 of the children. William Hall was my ggg grandfather.
-
It seems 'cannonhill' as lost interest in this tread of his!! ??? thus YellowBlower! though a newbee to this website :D Welcome to Rootchat website, (Dare say you'll get hooked on it like rest of us) she has a lot of ancestry experience by sounds of. Please help her as you did with 'cannonhill' as this HALL family. :o
Dobby :)
-
Hi Dave...It is now midnight in Sydney. One of William's sons had the name James Asbridge Hall who was a brother of my gg grandfather Matthew, a surgeon in Wortley. Two of Matthew's children also had the name Asbridge as a second name, so we followed through and found William Asbridge of Cockermouth with a daughter Isabella. We have the marriage bond of William Hall, 27 to Isabella Asbridge, 21 in Cockermouth in 1799.
My gg grandfather Matthew married Mary Ann Abbey in St Peter's Leeds and their children were christened there.
This family has proved a challenge, as we know Matthew's death and have his will but have never been able to find a burial...spent a week in Leeds Library several years ago and also archives at Sheepscar with no success...found his house "Greenhill House" in Wortley and wandered through the cemetery across the road..still no success. I guess one day we'll find the missing burial and baptisms....it's a challenge!!
-
Huge thank you to those of you who have provided information. Apologies for delay in replying which was caused by family matters. Will now try and print out all the replies and make some sense of them. The revelation that William Hall was married prior to Mary Taylor is definitely a significant twist.
Regards
Bill
-
Hi Bill
Read and switch to this thread now!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=605221.new;topicseen
-
One question remains
Was William Hall hatter of Leeds Yorkshire who married 1799 Isabella in Cockermouth Cumbria a Widower or Bachelor
-
I have checked the marriage bonds that we have and there is no mention at all of his status, whether widower or batchelor...only age...27.
-
With William Hall, Hatter/Woolstapler of Leeds d 1828 age 58 Leeds Newpaper formally of Leeds burial town/city unknown! maybe York ST Olaves Marygate burial except 2 month gap between death March and burial date June? estimated year of birth 1770 could been baptised years later like his son John Henry Hall in Birstall 1844 age 20 years b 1824.
A third marriage crossed my mind as William Hall age of circa 29 years (calulated from death age) in 1799 in Cockermouth Cumberland ( now Cumbria). This could make William hall d 1828 son William Hall mentioned in his Probate Will ~birth year before 1799 to a first wife (Before Isabella)