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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: findem on Wednesday 30 June 04 00:25 BST (UK)
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Anyone researching the Essex Warner name?
My focus at the moment is around the Great Wakering, Leigh on Sea and Southend areas but I would be interested in hearing from anyone researching the Warner name.
I'm looking for a Robert Warner (born circa 1744) who married Mary Cornwall in 1769 at Great Wakering. Robert & Mary moved to Sandon where I found nine children baptised 1772 to 1790, no children named Robert or Mary were found. I have searched Gt Wakering & Sandon but no Robert Warner (senior) found.
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Hi Findem,
My Warners are all from the Dunmow- Hatfield Broad Oak area, if you have any from that area we may be able to help each other,
Regards
Alistair McCormick.
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Hi Alistair,
My Warner line is one of only a few that I haven't made much headway with, I have only found two Warner families at the moment. Here is a brief outline of my Warner line: -
Robert Warner married Mary Cornwall 1769 Gt Wakering.
Their son John married Elizabeth Sewell 1803 at Sandon.
John & Elizabeth's daughter Sarah married John Card 1836 at Sandon.
That unfortunately is as far as I go, I am hoping to check Leigh on Sea in the near future, I understand some Warners were spotted there around the 1720s.
I'll keep you in mind should my research head towards Dunmow or HBO areas.
What Warner name and date are you looking for at the moment?
Regards
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Hi Findem,
I can safely go back to Joseph Warner b.1819 who married Mary Tyler in 1839 at Great Dunmow, further back there are too many John Warner's to be sure!
Regards
Alistair McCormick
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Hi Alistair,
Have you looked in the Takeley PRs for Warners? There are quite a few and date from 1692 to 1794, including a John baptised 24 Sept 1774. Also noted was the marriage of John Warner to Ann Cavill 17 Nov 1818. In case you haven't checked Takeley there is a link to them on the first page that comes up on the Essex board. Takeley is close to the HBO, Gt Dunmow area so it could be useful sometime.
Regards.
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Hi Findem,
Many thanks for the tip on Takeley , it certainly helped, some of my Warners were from Hatfield Broad Oak, I have yet to tie them up but you have been a great help. Now if someone could only do a similar job with Great Dunmow Church records !
Regards and Many Thanks,
Alistair
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Hi Alistair,
It appears that the Takeley PR transcriber may have omitted some entries, someone who has some Takeley fiche found a few Fewells, spelt ffewell, that the transcriber had missed. Whether or not he missed any from other surnames is not known but I suppose as with all transcriptions it's best to follow up by checking the originals/fiche.
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My 5 x great grandmother is a Warner from Leigh on Sea. I have information from parish registers in late 1700s, If anyone has a connection to Leigh - which I research all the families from, I would be happy to exchange information.
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Hi Palmtree,
If you get back to the early 1700s and come across a Robert Warner born circa 1744 I would be grateful for the info.
I can't say for sure I have a connection to Leigh on Sea but as I mentioned in my original post on this subject, Robert & Mary married at Gt Wakering which is close to Leigh on Sea.
Robert & Mary Warner named sons William, John, James & Henry so I would also be intested in any of those names born say 1700 to 1750, I would expect that Robert's father's name if not Robert, would be one of those four christian names. I would also expect a brother or two to have those names.
I am happy to share my Warner info on Robert & Mary's descendants.
Come to think of it I do have a slight connection to Leigh on Sea, an aunt, uncle and cousin lived there for a while. ;D
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No Robert and Mary but I start with a John married to Elizabeth (name unknown) having children in Leigh from 1729 onwards. This John died in 1754 in Leigh - I have not found a death for Elizabeth. The name is shown as Walner but my ancester who is their daughter Ann was married as Warner
Their children were
Elizabeth 1729
Peter Wyngrave Warner 1730-1734
Anna Maria 1732-1734
William 1734
Sarah 1741
Mary born and died 1745
John 1747
Ann no baptism found
Thomas died 1750
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Hi Palmtree,
Looks as though if we link it's going to be a bit further back in time, my two families do share some christian names with yours, hard to say if that is significant. Any way here are are mine, all are baptisms except Harriet, haven't found her baptism yet, the date and place are gleaned from a census.
Robert Warner married Mary Cornwall 1769 at Gt Wakering, all known children baptised at Sandon, Essex.
William 1772, Sarah 1774, John 1776, Elizabeth 1778, James 1780, Frances 1782, Susanna 1784, Henry 1788 & Ann 1790, strange no Robert or Mary ???
John Warner married Elizabeth Sewell at Sandon, except for Harriet all known children baptised in Sandon.
Harriet born about 1803 in Springfield, Essex, Charles 1808, Sarah 1810, William 1813, Thomas 1814, Henry 1818 & Edward 1819. Again no children found who were named after their parents.
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Hello, my name is Barry Warner from the north west. eldest relative is Harry 86. Just started to try and trace family history, looking for any Warners who might be related. Also had relatives in the south west.
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Hi Barry,
Nice to hear from you.
You have probably read that my most recent born Warner is Sarah who was born 1810. At the stage you are currently at I will not, unfortunately, have any info of help to you.
I hope you have milked dry of info those relatives still alive, it's amazing how much family lore they can recall once they get started. Also amazing how much turns out to be vital info, e.g. gt gt grandfather Jack's real name was Ernest.
My Warners movements were from Gt Wakering to Sandon but where they were located before Gt Wakering is anyone's guess. So at the moment I can't rule out linking up with anyone's Warners. During my next trip to the UK and the ERO I am hoping to find a generation or two before the Gt Wakering family. If I make headway I'll post the results on here sometime during November this year.
Good luck with your research, if you feel there is anything at all I can help you with please let me know.
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Hello
My Warners are from Colchester in Essex.
GGG Grandfather James Warner
married Eleanor (Ellen) Gallerfing in 1855.
Their children: James, Eleanor (Ellen), Charles, Arthur, Susan (Annie), Alice, Walter, Frederick, William and Frank.
GG Grandmother - Ellen Warner
Grandfather - Thomas Charles Warner (b 1881) newspaper compositor
Mother - Marjorie Frances Warner
Anyone tracing the same line?
All the best
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If you find any Warner / Worner's in South Wales (particularly Swansea) let me know I have these in my distant line.
:D
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Hi Jen,
Just noticed your reply to my post, sorry I didn't reply to it sooner but from the 1st of Oct to 5th Nov I was over in the UK, Essex, with no computer access. There was no email awaiting me on my return to Oz advising of your post, I just on an impulse decided to check out some of my posts and noticed your reply.
At this stage I have no Welsh connection with my Warners and quite frankly would rather not have one ;D. I can only get to the UK every second year and travelling to Wales from Essex would rob me of time in the Essex Records office.
Having said that I do have a Mary JONES who married Jonathon Cornwall in 1720 at Kelvedon, Essex, whom I haven't found yet, she is linked to my Warners via the Cornwalls.
As far as my Warners go I achieved nothing this trip except that I now know that Robert was not baptised in Leigh On Sea or Gt Wakering.
Regards
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Ok, watch yourself I'm Welsh ;)
With regards to your Warner's If you should find welsh connections let me know as I may be able to help you with the resources I have at home.
Kindest Regards and all the very best in your research
Jen :D
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OK Jen I'll watch out.
Thanks for the offer, there was a time when I would have dismissed any thought of ancestors outside Essex. Now I have Sturdy from Yorkshire, Harris & Clarke from Suffolk and Dalton & Beales from Norfolk. So I'll keep your offer in mind because you never know where the trail will go. One thing I do know for sure is that I do have some Celtic blood but whether it is Welsh, Scots or Irish I wouldn't have a clue, maybe one day I'll find out.
Regards and good luck with your research.
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Hi Findem,
Just seen your conversation with the Taffy girl in which you say you might have some Celtic blood in you. You might be lucky, my mother was a a Warner from the Great Dunmow- Hatfield Broad Oak mob, I was born in Scotland and am as Scots in attitude As the Black Watch. My ancestors on that side were Ulster Scots who can go back to the Border Rievers. This makes Ancestor hunting intriguing, confusing, exhilarating when there is a little success, and lots of fun. Not only that but I have met some very fine fellow genealogists in my cyber travels. Now, I am still chasing Warners from Essex and am particularly keen to find the parents and siblings of John Warner who married Martha Perry in 1771, anyone chasing these or any other Gt. Dunmow Warners would make welcome contacts,
Regards
Alistair
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Hi Alistair,
My next search will be Little Wakering for my Robert Warner although at this stage I suppose anywhere in Essex is a likely location. Hopefully I'll be at the ERO around February 2006, all being well, my mother will be 100 come mid February 2006 so we will be in the UK to celebrate.
I think your Border Rievers will lead you a fine dance (hotfoot pursuit?), a lot of the English and Scots border rievers had related families on both sides of the border.
Good luck with your Warners.
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Thanks Findem,
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Thanks Findem,
Give my regards to your mother, that is quite an achievement in this day and era. I feel decidedly youthful at seventy-six.. have a good trip to the UK , I hope you can sort out those pesky Warners. As for the Border Reivers, if you read a bit try ' The Steel Bonnets' they would have a hard job making a film about them.
All the best
Alistair
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Will pass on your regards Alistair.
Who wrote Steel Bonnets? sounds like my kind of book.
I've read a lot of Nigel Tranter's books, there is mention of the Border Riever families in several of his books, he sometime uses the term "Moss Troopers" to describe them. I suppose you know that in the battles against the English the Moss Troopers were used as a light cavalry, I have loads more "useless info" like that ;D
Regards.
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Good morning Findem,
George Macdonald-Fraser wrote ' The Steel Bonnets'. he used to be a newspaper editor and also wrote the Flashman series. It really is a great insight into border history in the sixteenth century.
One reviewer described the reivers as 'back-stabbing, double-crossing, treacherous, thieving......' . I think he must have met them on their best behaviour. There is nothing surer than that they could easily be mistaken for modern politicians. Anyone with Armstrong, Graham, Douglas or other border blood in them might learn a bit from the book.
Regards
Alistair
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Thanks for that Alistair, I'll have a look for the book.
I am an avid reader and have read quite a few of the Flashman books.
There is another book entitled "The General Danced at Dawn?" (think that's right) which I believe is by the same author and hilarious, it is centred around a Highland Regiment. I'm not 100% sure it's by George MacDonald-Fraser so I had a quick look but couldn't find it, I'll look again when I get off the net.
Back-stabbing, double-crossing, treacherous, thieving, certainly describes politicians over here, especially the current mob, what is most worrying is that they appear to consider it's acceptable to behave that way.
Regards
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Hi Alistair,
Thought it was about time that I posted something on here!
Have you got a definite connection now with the John Warners? I'm just confused with them all!
Still haven't sent the letter off to the church to find out about who they might be but I'll list them here and see if anyone knows...
In the churchyard of the United Reformed Church in Great Dunmow there is a family memorial to Warners that includes:
Mary Warner d. 184?
John Warner b.1802
John Josolyne Warner d.11/04/1857 aged 38 - "For some years past an active and indefatigable partner in the commercial academy in this town".
Catherine Hannah Warner - 6th Daughter of John & Mary Warner d.26/1/1840? aged 27
Joseph Robert Warner - 3rd son of John & Mary Warner d.19/08/1844 aged 18.
So, at this moment in time they remain a mystery and as to whether we are connected to them remains to be seen. Hopefully there is someone out there who knows who they are!
Ooh, and also think I've found the Great Granddaughter of Edward Warner b.1882 d.21/03/1918 (he's on the third page in from the right hand side on the tree I think)
I'll keep you posted!
Regards, Emma ???
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Thank You Emma,
There is certainly a lot of confusion over the myriads of John Warners. I have the John born in 1802 as the first child of John b.1774 and Sarah Joyce. The earlier ones might be related to John and Mary Scrivener who married in 1732. I will have another check. As you say there may be others hunting members of this tree. 'Findem' and Bob Woods perhaps may be able to help (hint hint!)
All the best
Alistair
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Hi Alistair,
:o So, if John Warner b.1802 - the one at the Reformed Church is the eldest son of John Warner and Sarah Joyce, then that will answer the questions as to who he was...
Maybe?! Let me know!!
I've written the letter to the church today so hopefully they will come up with something!
Regards, Emma
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Hello Emma,
The records I made during my quick trip to Chelmsford in May show a John Warner baptised June 6 1802, aged 10 weeks, son of John and Sarah. ... labourer...Green Church. I also have John Warner marrying Sarah Joyce on 11 Oct. 1798 in presence of Stephen Warner and John Gunn. These are the only two I found who could be John b.1802's parents, however, there may be others.
The Green Church bit is interesting, I wonder if that was the United Reform Church,
Regards
Alistair.
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Hi Alistair
Just a bit of useless information, but, the United Reformed Church I think was formed in 1972 by the union of the Congregational Church in England and Wales and the Presbyterian Church of England.
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Thanks for that info. I'm just scouring the net looking for more info on the URC. Must have been a church there before though...I can feel a long hard slog coming on!
Regards, Emma :)
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And yes Sue, it was formed in 1972. So who were there before them?! ::)
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I have an ERO Handlist of Parish and Non-Conformist Registers held by the ERO.
They list Registers of the Great Dunmow Independents:-
Births & Baptisms 1733-1837.
Deaths & Burials 1783-1856.
The Handlist is dated 1982-3 so it might be worthwhile checking to see if they have added to the Handlist.
I've found that Non-Conformists were prepared to travel to other parishes for worship, baptism etc. Some of mine were born in Great Leighs but baptised in Braintree, caused quite a problem finding them which in the end came down to a goodly slice of luck.
Regarding Alistair's earlier reply to Emma, 9/12/04, I'm afraid I'm not likely to be able help with your Warner problem (or mine) until the year 2006 :( However if you get your Joyce family back to the period of mid 1600 to 1777, I have quite a few of them from Shalford.
Regards.
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Good morning Findem,
Alistair here, sorry I cant get the Joyce family back as far as 1700 yet but I will try. I agree those Warners are a problem back about 1700-1750 but with so many of us chasing them we might be able to use the American industry method of problem solving... trample it to death!
Anyway have a good and safe Christmas, I look forward to much more contact in the future,
All the best
Alistair in Australia
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Hello Sue,
Thank you Sue, I am never very sure which religion is what these days and this may help sort out the Warners, I know some were registered as 'Independent' but 'Independent of what?' becomes the question.
Regards
Alistair
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HI All
This has been interesting, and at least given me a break from looking for my names.
It's looking like there were a lot of Independent's in Essex which later went on to be other churches. (a lot are now URC)
These are some areas that I found that had Independent churches:
Halstead, Kelvedon, Tollesbury, Henham, Finchingfield, Stansted, Stebbing, Clavering, Wethersfield, Newport, Billericay, Colchester, Thaxted, Abess Roding, Ockendon.
Then I found that Seax has a 'Lithograph of the interior view of the new sunday school, Independent chapel, Dunmow', which is recorded under Dunmow Congregational, which later became URC.
So looks like that's what it was before.
Sue
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Hi All,
There are quite a heap of Non-Conformist etc Chapel/Church Registers in the ERO.
Here are a few more which are not too far from the Dunmow area.
Bocking 1738-1838.
Braintree 1813-1837.
Felsted 1826-1837.
Stanstead Mountfitchet (2) 1812-1837 & 1822-1837.
Terling 1784-1837.
Wethersfield 1787-1837.
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Morning All!
Looks like I'm going to have to go and visit the ERO!! It's really not that far away but I think it'll be the new year before I get the time.
I sent an email to the Reverend at the URC in Dunmow to see if he knows any more so I will let you know should I receive a reply.
Lovely gloomy day today - ideal for staying in and doing a bit of family research!
See you soon,
Emma
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Have you tried the National burial index or british vital records, to see if any of these Warner's are on there.
Sue
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Thank you Sue,
I will give them a try,
Regards
Alistair
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Hi Findem,
I tried to post a reply on the other message board (re: John Josolyne Warner)but my local server keeps crashing, so while it still works I will write it now. (and I hope I have the right person!)
I have found Josolyne's in the Gt Dunmow area going back to about 1760. Also just to confuse myself even more I have found a Sophia Josolyne who married an unknown Warner c. 1780-1790 somewhere in Essex.
I could be such a good politician with all my unknowns, possibles and maybes!! ;D
Anna
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Hi Anna,
Emsworthy is the person on this topic who expressed an interest in John Josolyne Warner circa 1819. Let's hope she has the notification facility turned on for this topic, if you don't receive a reply to your post here send her a personal message.
Also Alistair has expressed an interest in John Warner as you have probably noticed.
I am still stuck on the same person that I started this topic with, Robert Warner who married Mary Cornwall 1769 at Gt Wakering and raised a family at Sandon Essex. I do have a John Warner ancestor who was born 1776 in Sandon, he is the son of Robert and Mary.
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Hi Anna,
I posted a reply on Ancestry (yes, me again!)...hope you got it!
I have absolutely no idea to this day as to where John Josolyne Warner and family fit into my tree (Alistair and I are researching the same line...think we worked out we are fourth cousins once removed!) Once again, it's the time and money involved that is stopping me from sorting this one out...and also the fact that everyone seems to be called John!
I'm sure though that they will have to fit in somewhere - they were Warners and from Great Dunmow after all!
Regards, Emma ;)
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Hi,
It's really bugging me as to where he came from, so, as I'm stuck on my direct Josolynes I shall branch off in a different direction and see how exactly John Josolyne Warner fits in. With luck it shouldn't be too difficult (as long as they kept to this spelling of the name) as the Josolyne variation is very rare. Also, as I have a least 2 Warner's married in there somewhere I might, if I'm lucky, find what I am missing in my own direct line.
Even though Josolyne as a surname died out in my family 100 years ago subsequent children have Josolyne as a middle name (much to my annoyance as a child!!). So you see where my obsession with it comes from ;D
Anna
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Maybe this is your Robert or maybe you or someone can help me with this
I believe they lived aroud Sandam and Great Baddow
When (8)William got married he was a minor and his father had to sign for him
Marriage of William and Sarah
Marriage Register kept for the Parish of Sandon in the County of
Essex Film #1472660, item 26
Marriage
#83 - William Warner of the parish of •Sutton in the county of Essex, Batchelor, a minor, and Sarah Smith of this Pairish of Sandon in the said county of Essex, Spinster, were married in this church by licence, by and with the consent of Robert Warner, the natural and lawful father of the said William Warner the minor, this eighteenth day of December in the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety by me, John Lewis Jun.r, Curate
Parliamentary duty chargeable hereon 3
This marriage was soleminized between us, the mark of William Warner, the mark of Sarah Smith in the presence of T.L.Tweed, John Rolf. The mark of Robert Warner, the father.
(a) Thomas Warner b 1790 d June 02 1843 m(1)Cathrine Bond d. in the West Indies d/o Capt.Thomas Bond m (2) Patience
Thomas Warner (a) was a band sgt of an English regiment stationed in the Channel Island; he married Catherine Bond daughter of Capt. Thomas Bond who left property to heirs of disinherited daughter Catherine. Capt Bond was drowned by the capsizing of a brig off the coast of Newfoundland about 1834. Thomas Warner (a) was a school-master at the time of his death.
Children (1)Thomas b1814 England d 1881 Port Hawkesbury m(1) Harriot King (2) Lavinia LeBlanc
(2)William Edmund b April 1 1818 or 1819 d Feb 27 or 28 1861 m Jan. 08 1843 to ,Mary Ann Price (see William info)
(3)Catherine b. In the West Indies m William Dedman ( a London Police man)
See letters to and from the above and see Thomas' military
Note of interest
From 'Births, Deaths and marriages in Newfoundland Newspapers 1825 - 1850
BOND Capt Bond drowned Dec 14th on passage from Alicant to Nfld. Dec 14/35 on board 'Selina'. Jan l2/16T(imes) from letters it is believed Capt.Thomas Bond had a son who resided in Nfld,
b)William wife was also a Sarah
Their children from the letter
My elder daughter, Sarah married to a man at Woodamwater but
she is dead. She has left two boys. She died Oct 12, 184?, aged
26.
Martha, my next daughter, married a man from Danbury and died
Sept 5, 1846, aged 21 years.. Left no family.
Elizabeth is living in Springfield, aged 26. Elizabeth is living in Springfield, aged 26. b ca 1835 d Jan. 02, 1864 m George Bishop > On the 2nd inst, Eliza, aged 29 years, second daughter of Mr William Warner, and wife of Mr George Bishop. (From the Halifax Citizen, Tuesday, January 5, 1864
Thomas living at home, 23.
John died July 18, 1841, aged 9,
Ellen, aged 1? is at home.
Henry died Sept 4, 1843, aged 5.
Joseph, aged 13, at home.
Mary Ann died April 11, 1843, aged 6 years.
My eldest son, William is 24 years old. He is
in the army, the 68th Light Infantry at Malta. He enlisted Nov 12,
1843 and in 2 years he got in the band and now is full musician. We
have not seen him since he went away. This is five years.
c)Robert There is not a mention of Robert's wife but he does mention his children in a letter and and seeing there are only 3 his wife may have died. They are:
The youngest is 13 years of age
Mary, the oldest, is married and has 5 children
Sophia is married and has two children
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Is this snippet of any use?
Ardleigh D/P 263/1/5 fiche 1 of 1
1796 John son of Mary WARNER by a fall from his horse (or house?) Nov 10 burial
I didn't notice any/many WARNER baptisms round that year
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Hi
This is probably of no relevance whatsoever, but I thought I'd add it anyway: ;D
I'm originally from Southend-on-Sea. Close to the airport is an old bridge over the railway line: Warner's Bridge. I have no idea where the name came from - maybe it was named after a local landowner/celebrity/etc.
Near the bridge is a sportsground; I believe it is home to the Southend rugby club.
Regards from Germany,
Karen
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Not far from Southend is a village called Barling. I looked at some transcripts (Essex Record Office ref TS 709/2) of Barling baptisms and found these WARNER baptisms:
1715 18 Dec William son of John and Sarah WARNER
1718 9 Sep Sarah dau of John WARNER (no mention of mother's name)
1720 4 Sep John son of John and Mary WARNER
1722/3 8 Apr Mary dau of John and Mary WARNER
1726 20 Nov Henry son of John and Eliz WARNER
1727 31 Dec James son of John and Eliz WARNER
The transcript covered the period from 1695-1812 and I'm pretty sure there were no other WARNER baptisms - but I did all of this in 15 mins before closing time ::
Are these Johns the same fellow and where did they all go?
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Thanks for everyting I think most of us are chasing the same Warner's just different branchs. The John's William's Robert's .When we get enough to piece it together I think it will fit
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Hi,
Was wondering if any of you have a Laura Warner 1872-1965 who married a William Nobbs. Laura's father was Thomas Warner 1834-1927.
Sharon
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Sorry sharona no Lauras in my lot.
My latest date ancestor is Sarah Warner baptised 1811 at Sandon, she did have a brother Thomas but he was baptised at Sandon in 1814, a bit too early to be your Thomas.
If you post the locations of your Warners it might help someone to offer clues or ideas, with a big portion of luck perhaps even the Thomas and/or Laura you're looking for. :)
Regards.