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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: suds on Tuesday 26 June 12 19:22 BST (UK)
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Hello
I have just received, from the National Archive in Dublin, a record of a grant of probate for an ancestor of mine. It has raised a couple of questions that, hopefully, someone here will be able to help with.
Under the heading “Name of the court, Date of Administration and by whom extracted” is written - Cork 2 April 1831.
Under the heading “Name and Description of Intestate” is written - Sam’l A Hobbs unbodied 24 December 1829.
I have not come across the term unbodied before. Would I be right in thinking that was the date of his death?
The adminitratrix is given as Sarah Hobbs. I know that his wife was called Sarah so I take this to be her. It says that her residence is Sarahville, Cork. Can any one tell me, is this an area of Cork, or would this be the name of the house she lived in?
Many thanks in advance
Suds
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Hello.The meaning of unbodied is "not having a material body",so that can be taken as deceased.As to Sarahville;there are a number of Sarahville in Cork.There is a Sarahville in Pouladuff and Ballyphehane.The time that you are looking at though I would recommend taking a look at an old map of Cork,the Local Studies in the Library, Grand Parade are very helpful.If you had an idea of the area of the city they were living in you could narrow it down as many places went through a name change,e.g. King St. became MacCurtain St,etc.Good luck with your search.
PS. corkcitypastandpresent.ie is a good site to look at old maps of Cork.
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Marriage for Samuel Andrew Hobbs to Sarah Prittie
1796 Diocese of Cork & Ross (from an Irish database)
Tithe Applotment books 1828 following entries:
Samuel A Hobbs. County Cork.Parish St Finbars
Townland Reigh & Vican Aare
Sarah A Hobbs. County Cork. Parish St Finbars, Townland Mahon
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Many thanks for your responses.
Ballydw
You have provided new information for which I'm very grateful. I didn't know the marriage date.
I have Samuels full name as Samuel Andrew Hobbs.
His daughter Annie married John Sudlow in Liverpool in 1839. On the marriage certificate Samuel is described Gentleman (deceased). One of the witnesses is William Hobbs who I presume is a brother.
It is not clear to me what the Tithe Applotment records are telling. Is that where they lived or perhaps where they owned land?
The reference to Sarah A Hobbs and Townland Mahon is possibly interesting. John Sudlow's stepdaughter Josephine Martindale married Richard Harris of Blackrock and he owned lands in Mahon. Perhaps there is a connection.
See, the information that you have provided has led me off in to new areas. As said above, I'm very grateful.
Regards
Suds
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Glad to help if I can. You could take a look at www.nli.ie and you will find all information on the Tithe Applotment.
The records might at least provide a "lead" in your hunt for Sarahville!!
Regards
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There is a listing in American Directory for William Hobbs 1801-1825
Address: Patrick Street, Cork, Attorney.
Griffiths Valuation 1852
Williams Hobbs Tenant - Landlord Sarah Hobbs. Parish Holy Trinity, Townland Marlboro St. House & Yard. Must have been a substantial House as he was paying a high rent for the time.
Did the Hobbs family originate in UK?
Regards
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Blimey ballydw
You are finding some really good stuff.
There is an archive in the Cork archives called the Exham papers. There is an online index. I think it is the records of a local solicitor. In the index there are several references to Sarah Hobbs that indicate that she must have been quite wealthy.
From that archive I was able to purchase copies of the Wills of Richard Harris and his father William Prittie Harris. It was quite an involved process and quite expensive. I'd like to get a look at the archive one day (I'm in England by the way). Anyway you can see that it looks like these families were intermingled with this reference to another Prittie. There seems to have been a group of families local to Blackrock - Harris, Prittie, Hall, Crofts, McNamara - who seem to have intermarried.
Samuel A Hobbs appears as a Freeman of Cork in this 1826 poll. I don't know if that implies wealth and/os status:
http://www.corkrecords.com/ProtMenOfCork.htm
The William Hobbs of Patrick Street, attorney is not the brother of Annie Hobbs, he was dead too soon. I guess he was related though. I think the William Hobbs of Marlboro Street was probably the brother and renting off his mother. Just to muddy the water further, Annie Hobbs married John Sudlow on 1 January 1839 in Liverpool. Four days later 5 January 1839 William Hobbs marries another of John Sudlow's stepdaughters, Mary Martindale, in Liverpool. It gets very complicated.
It's an interesting question as to whether the Hobbs came from England. The farthest back that I have been able to take my Hobbs line is Samuel Andrew Hobbs (? - 1829 as I now know)) I guess if you go back far enough the answer is yes, but how far is enough? By coincidence, I now live in Somerset, where there are a lot of Hobbs. From what I have read it seems possible that the Hobbs were involved in the Munster plantations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Ireland
The Munster plantation seems to have involved quite a number of people from Somerset. However, I have no real evidence one way or the other about the Hobbs.
Regards
Suds
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1801-1825 listing in Directory for Wm Hobbs is the year of publication.
Speaking to a friend tonight who knows Cork City quiet well she knew Sarahville, as mentioned by Somme, it is Pouladuff & near The Lough Cork City.
She seemed to think in St Finbars parish, so this ties in with previous land records for St Finbarrs Parish.
Regards
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ballydw
Aaah, I see what you mean about the dates - they were not the dates of his life.
I can only have a guess at William Hobbs dates although more informed with the information you provided.
Parents marriage date 1796, birth of sister Annie 1814 (based on age on death certificate), so I'd guess between those dates. He gets married in 1839 to Mary Martindale born 1821.
Looking at Google maps I can see that there is a Sarahville Road off Pouladuff Road, confirming that that is probably the area that Sarah Hobbs lived and Samuel A Hobbs before he died, presumably.
Many thanks for your input, it's most welcome.
Regards
Suds
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Hi Suds, have you looked at www.irishgenealogy.ie for diocese of Cork & Ross it has numerous baptism/marriage entries for Hobbs.
Do you know the denomination of your Hobbs? There seemed to be several families of this name in Cork some were Roman Catholic & some Church of Ireland.
The above site is Roman Catholic records
Regards
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ballydw
The only clues I have to their religion are the marriages of Annie and William which both took place in Church of England churches.
Marriage: 1 Jan 1839 St Catherine Abercromby Square, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Sudlow - Full Accountant Widower of Exchange St. East
Ann Hobbs - Full Spinster of Bidston, Cheshire
Groom's Father: Thomas Sudlow, Accountant
Bride's Father: Samuel Hobbs, Gentleman
Witness: Wm. Hobbs; J Boyes
Married by Licence by: Charles Gladwin Offg. Minr.
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1859, Page 17, Entry 33
Source: LDS Film 1655552
From Genuki
St Catherine, Liverpool- Church of England
The Northern Standard and Monaghan, Cavan, and Armagh Advertiser.
January 12, 1839
Monaghan, County Monaghan
5 January
At St. Bride’s, Liverpool, William Hobbs, Esq. of Cork, to Mary, eldest daughter, of the late Captain Joseph Martindale, of Northumberland.
From Genuki
St Bride, Liverpool - Church of England
Regards
Suds
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Hi Colin, if you would like to PM me your email address I will scan the marriage record & forward to you. Regards, Frances
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Hi Suds,
I have a few entries from newspapers which might help or hinder your search!!!
I know I have given you some info and photos before.
Cork Mercantile Chronicle M 11 Aug 1817 on Sat morning last at St. Barry's church by the Rev. Alexander kennedy, William Stamers Esq. of Passage to Mary eldest dau
of Samuel A. Hobbs Esq., of Pleasantview Blackrock.
Hibernian chronicle M 26 april 1784 last Saturday Mr. William Flaherty an eminent builder to Miss Hobbs dau of Mr. Samuel Hobbs, architect of Crosses Green ( MLB
Margaret Hobbs)
Hibernian chronicle M 19 April 1790 yesterday Mr. Murray to Miss Hobbs, dau of Mr.
Samuel Hobbs Architect (MLB Elizabeth Hobbs married at St. Finbarrs 17 Feb)
Above from Rosemary Ffoilliot's newspaper index
The following item I found in a book "Portrait of Cork " by T. F. Mc Namara ( Cork City Architect)
"Clarkes Bridge,
The bridge was built under the superintendence of a Samuel Hobbs, carpenter, who undertook many other works for the Cork Corporation. The earliest catholic church in the city is the South Chapel , which also dates 1766. It has not been possible to establish who built it, but it is likely undertaken by this gentleman.On 23rd Feb 1790 Hobbs had the freedom of the City bestowed on him"
I might have sent you this before??
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Hello Mary
Yes, you have given me some information and photographs in the past for which I was very grateful. However, you’ve given me a bit of a conundrum with this latest information.
I’m aware from “© Cork City and County Archives 2007 List of Freemen of Cork City 1710-1841” that there were two Samuel A Hobbs in Cork. I’m pretty certain that the one relevant to me was Samuel Andrew Hobbs, and then there was Samuel Aug. (August?) Hobbs:
Hobart Rt. Hon. Robert (afterwards Earl of Buckinghamshire).
Principal Secretary to Lord Lieut. (1790). S.B. 23/1/1790
Hobbs Samuel A. Esquire
Hobbs Samuel Aug. Gentleman
Hobbs Thomas Captain 92nd Regt. “for his gallant Condu
There are no associated dates so they could be living 100 years apart. What’s the difference between an Esquire and a Gentleman, I wonder?
Your reference to Samuel A Hobbs Esq. of Pleasantview, Blackrock looks good because my family seems to have lots of connections to Blackrock.
I have been aware of the Samuel Hobbs, architect, but haven’t been able to take the step backwards. I wonder if he was Samuel Aug. Hobbs since your reference notes that he was a freeman and there are only the two Samuels. “My” Samuel A Hobbs married in 1796 (as given by ballydw), I guess he can’t have been born much later than 1775. From your references Sam the architect had two girls marrying in 1784 and 1790 so “my” Sam could be a sibling. If we ever found a baptism that said Sam son of Sam I think I’d be convinced that Samuel Aug. Hobbs (the architect) was the father of Samuel Andrew Hobbs (“my” Sam).
It’s all food for thought and I appreciate, very much, you taking the time and trouble to look up the references on my behalf.
Regards
Suds
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There is some info here on Samuel Hobbs, carpenter/architect.
http://www.dia.ie/architects/view/2606/HOBBS-SAMUEL#tab_biography
Then if you search this website, it lists a Samuel Andrew Hobbs, tallow chandler, and wife Sarah as parties to a deed in 1800. Some other Hobbs listings as well
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~registryofdeeds/
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Hi again,
I had another look at "The Portrait of Cork" book by T. F. McNamara and there
is another item on Samuel A Hobbs with a reference to the Council book of the
Corporation of Cork includes years 1710-1841 listing several Freemen of Cork and
Samuel A. Hobbs Esq. listed with a date after his name of 23/11/1700 so this
is definately not your Samuel as you say possibly his father, hard to say for sure.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Hello
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply, I've been out all day.
Thanks once again for taking the trouble to look up these references for me.
I have noted in my records that Samuel Andrew Hobbs was a tallow chandler. To my ears this doesn't sound like a very lofty position. Would he have been made a freeman? On the other hand when his daughter Annie marries John Sudlow he is described as a gentleman. I'm not sure what you have to do to be described as a gentleman. It's not much of a job description.
John Sudlow had, in a small way, some influence. He was a commissioner for Birkenhead at the time of his marriage to Annie, He, and his father before him, had been the clerk to the treasurer of Liverpool City Council.
One of his stepdaughters married Richard Harris of Lakeview, Blackrock, another married William Hobbs. A full daughter from his previous marriage married Henry Hewitt O'Bryen, Harbourmaster of Queenstown. I'm not sure what that all adds up to, I guess I'm thinking that it would be in keeping for Samuel Andrew Hobbs to have some wealth and/or influence.
This is an index to the O'Flynn Exham archive in Cork. It has several references to Hobbs in connection with the Harris family of Lakeview.
http://www.corkarchives.ie/media/U229web.pdf
Anyway, I'll keep looking and say once again that the kind people here on rootchat have helped me make forward progress, for which I'm grateful.
Regards
Suds
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Hi Suds,
I have a family tree dating back to 'Samuel A Hobbs' (architect & freeman). My own surname is Hobbs and I'm a descendant - family history always had Sam building Clarks Bridge....- have a look at Irish census 1901 and 1911 under Hobbs, Cork and you will find a John Hobbs listed with sons William and Daniel etc.
Regards
Marbil
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Suds
see your post on hobbs harris - seems we may well be related.
Bill
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Hi, by chance I just came across your posts. I have done some local history research on the area of Blackrock, Cork. Samuel Andrew Hobbs rented Pleasantview(later Lakeview) on a lease dated 4th Feb 1807. A Samuel A. Hobbs appears in the local tithe list dated 1827. This house i.e. Lakeview, appears on the 1840 Ordnance Survey Map on the below link - just toggle down to Cork city and find Blackrock Castle to the east of the city on the edge of the river Lee. Lakeview is just to the south of the Castle. Rgds
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,599997,749998,1,10
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Bren C
Thanks for your response to an old thread. The age is relevant because my memory fades and it takes me a while to get back up to speed and sme of it moght have fallen down the back of the sofa.
Anyway, your linkage of a house owned by the Hobbs family (Pleasantview) to Lakeview is interesting, I've not come across that before. I had some discussion about the house here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=541486.msg3972072#msg3972072
You may have already seen it.
There may be questions that you can ask that would trigger memories so fire away.
Suds
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suds
I think we are both researching the same families. The links are there - lawyers, christian names, Marlborough St., etc. My great grandfather Commander Edward Hicks RN was married on 17 October 1867 to Mary Jones (could also be Jane) Hobbs born 1844 died 1936 daughter of William Hobbs, born 1803 died 1883, Solicitor of Cork, and is shown as an executor of his will. Probate was 29 January 1884? to her and Catherine Hobbs, spinster, of South Terrace, Cork - I think it was No.6 South Terrace.
I can send you a photograph which came into my possession last year of the Hobbs family. I have had no luck in getting more information on any of the family in the photo, except I know of some of the life of my great grandmother, Mary Jones Hobbs.
Prittie also rings a bell - I think a Col. Prittie was thrown from the ramparts of a castle and survived! I will look up what I have.
Best wishes, Musca
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marbil
re.yourmessages to suds 14 Dec 2015. I can confirm that William Hobbs died at 6 South Terrace, Cork, on 19 Dec 1883 and was buried at St.Finbarrs' two days later. Colonel Henry Prittie is mentioned in my grandmother's scrapbook and she thought she was related to him.
Thanks, Francis
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My great grandfather Commander Edward Hicks RN was Inspecting Officer at Kinsale Coastguard and met his future wife Mary Jones Hobbs around the time of this posting. He went on to serve on HMS Northumberland and then became Captain of HMS Akbar a reformatory ship on the Mersey for naughty Liverpool lads. The conditions on this hulk were contributory to his death in 1902. He is buried at Bebington Cemetery on the Wirral.
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.........William Hobbs died at 6 South Terrace, Cork, on 19 Dec 1883.........
His death record
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06330/4815303.pdf
The informant was his daughter Henrietta, also of 6 South Terrace, Cork.
She died on 29th August 1939, aged 85 at 6 South Terrace.
#177
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1939/04738/4267747.pdf
KG
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KG Thanks for your response.
Francis
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William Hobbs brother of Danny Hobbs was my Grandfather..
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
William Hobbs brother of Danny Hobbs was my Grandfather..
Is this your grandfather with his siblings in the 1911 census?
Residents of a house 14 in Lough Road (Cork No. 5 Urban, Cork)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban/Lough_Road/395762/
KG
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Yes
William Augustus Hobbs.
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Yes
William Augustus Hobbs.
So, for others, this was his marriage to Annie Cregan in Limerick in 1922.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09203/5329352.pdf
Timothy Hobbs, also of 14 Lough Road, Cork was his brother's witness.
....and your grandfather was a twin. Hannah also born in 1885.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1886/1959276b.pdf
KG
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Hi
Yes this is correct. William Hobbs married to Anna Cregan. They had two daughters Shelia and Monica (Mona) (my mother) 3 sons Sean Eddie and Liam.
It must've have been very challenging times then as Tim Hobbs was interred in Cork jail for his involvement in an Active Service unit of the Anti Treaty side of the Civil War. My Grandmother Anna Cregans brother Eddie Cregan was a Commandant in the regular army and was killed in an ambush by an Anti Treaty Irregulars in 1922.
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Dobwhite, was your grandmother known as Anastasia in her younger days?
Her sister Kathleen was the informant at her wedding.
Residents of a house 1 in Dungeeha (Newcastle, Limerick)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Newcastle/Dungeeha/1510682/
KG
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Hi
Yes in her younger days.. My mum always called her Mater and her father Pater. I have very fond memories of her, as I would stay in Cork on Glasheen Road. Great sense of humor, and a very quick and sharp tongue at times.. Sharp card player I recall as she thought me how to play poker.
DOB
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Thanks both of you for the new info. I have not yet established a link, but the Lough Road may be instrumental. See the previous information re. Lakewiew, etc. Keep me in the picture. Francis
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Hi.
On my family tree on the Hobbs side I have a link to the Hobbs of Lough Rd and Samuel Hobbs Cork City Architect..
My Great-grandfather 5 generations was a Samuel Hobbs b. ca.1760 who was married to Mary Sullivan at St Finbars Church 18th Aug 1791 . From what I have my GGfather 5 generation uncle was Samuel Hobbs Architect of Cork City.
DOB
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So, for others, this was his marriage to Annie Cregan in Limerick in 1922.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09203/5329352.pdf
Timothy Hobbs, also of 14 Lough Road, Cork was his brother's witness.
Timothy Hobbs died in 1924 aged 37 years.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1924/05022/4372515.pdf
KG
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Residents of a house 14 in Lough Road (Cork No. 5 Urban, Cork)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__5_Urban/Lough_Road/395762/
Monica Hobbs died in 1964 aged 72 years.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1964/04259/4093271.pdf
KG
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Yes.. My mother also Monica was named after her.
DOB
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William Hobbs brother of Danny Hobbs was my Grandfather..
Daniel Hobbs married Julia Josephine O'Leary in 1928. He was a merchant, she was a national school teacher. John Hobbs, an elder brother was a witness.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1928/09088/5287677.pdf
Daniel Joseph Hobbs died in 1962 aged 79 years.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1962/04297/4106927.pdf
Julia Josephine Hobbs (a widow) died in 1968 aged 76 years. Her daughter Sheila Maire Hobbs was the informant.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1968/04190/4069084.pdf
KG
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Danny was a bit more than a merchant in Cork. Quite a celebrity and sports personality in the GAA. He had a menswear shop in Patrick Street.. Appeared on stage as a comedian & entertainer .
Danny in the center. Jack Lynch former Taoiseach (PM Ireland) Left and Hurling legend Christy Ring on the right
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Julia Josephine Hobbs (a widow) died in 1968 aged 76 years. Her daughter Sheila Maire Hobbs was the informant.
S***** M Hobbs born in 1930. MMN O'Leary
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F131-5Y9
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Daniel Joseph Hobbs died in 1962 aged 79 years.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1962/04297/4106927.pdf
The informant at his father's death was J*** K Hobbs.
Here's his birth.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F13V-KYP
KG