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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: desmo11225 on Tuesday 26 June 12 13:40 BST (UK)

Title: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: desmo11225 on Tuesday 26 June 12 13:40 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone
                       I am a brand new member and I'm not asking a geneoligy question, I hope thats O.K
          I was born in Resolven Dec 1925 Worked on the surface at Glyncastle Colliery from 1940 t0 1950, I remember going to Neath Fair 1946/7/8/9 and seeing a competition between Timbermen testing their speed and skills erecting sets of timber, using norway timbers 9ft long and about 8 to 10 inches in diameter.
I am trying to find newspaper reports or photographs of this avent or maybe a film or someone else who remembers it         
                      I use the   Welsh Coal Mines Guest Book    a lot and people are baffled to know what Timbermen are doing underground.
                              I would be greatful if someone would help me with this subject as I've promised to find out more from people who have Tmberman as thier ancestors occupation.
                       I hope my request meets with your approval
                                     Des Jones
                       
Moderator comment: welcome Des - I just changed the title of the thread a little to reflect that you're specifically looking for info about the Neath Fair, as well as general information.
Title: Re: Timbermen Underground
Post by: Ruskie on Tuesday 26 June 12 14:15 BST (UK)
Hello Des.

Welcome to rootschat! I can't help much I'm afraid, but I did find another discussion about mining jobs in general.

There are rather a lot of links - some might be better than others, and I haven't checked to see if any mention "timbermen', but you may find something of interest.

I noticed on the link to Welsh Coal Mines, that they have a forum - maybe someone there will be able to help. http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/ (I see they have a page for Glyncastle  :))

Anyway, here is the link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,395713.0.html

As a wild guess I would imagine that timber was used as a method of support underground, so men skilled in working with timber must have been employed for this reason, so perhaps 'timberman' was just a general term they used?  :-\

This link mentions timber men, both above and underground:
http://www.workerseducation.org/crutch/pamphlets/coal/coal_5.html
Title: Re: Timbermen Underground
Post by: Colin D Gronow on Tuesday 26 June 12 14:30 BST (UK)
The things RootsChat get me looking at ::)

Have a look at this YouTube video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_B3XwyU63o

It's about Timbering in Underground Anthracite Mines, but I'm sure something similar happened here.
Title: Re: Timbermen Underground
Post by: RJ_Paton on Tuesday 26 June 12 14:34 BST (UK)
from http://www.geevor.com/index.php?object=368
Quote
The work of a timberman at Geevor was a skilled, varied and often challenging one.

There are many tasks underground that he could be called upon to undertake such as repair work, support work, spreaders in stopes, casings, raise hole coverings, chutes or box holes, as well as making sure that there was a good supply of timber on all the levels he was responsible for.

Although a tin mine reference I'm fairly sure the jobs in other types of mines would have been similar.

added:

Definition of a timberman from http://www.workerseducation.org/crutch/pamphlets/coal/coal_5.html

Timbermen, inside.—Cut and set timbers or supports in mines to prevent falls of slate, stone and dirt.
Title: Re: Timbermen Underground
Post by: ruchca on Tuesday 26 June 12 17:01 BST (UK)
Hi My Grandfather was at one time a timberman underground, I don't really know but I assumed that they erected the pit props and arches for support. After this,  steel supports were used. He was born and bred on a farm and in his younger days his occupation was a waggoner on a farm. (presumably fixing and looking after waggons,  which in the 1910 and 20s where wood construction) So this is where I think he must have got his experience working with wood.
Hope this is of some help.
Title: Re: Timbermen Underground
Post by: Bethan on Wednesday 27 June 12 19:00 BST (UK)
According to my hubby an ex-miner a timberman used to supply the colliers with any timber required in their workplace

Best Wishes Bethan
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: Cell on Thursday 28 June 12 15:09 BST (UK)
Hi,
my G grandfather was a timberman who worked underground. My father grew up with him. He used to work on the struts and frames underground . He also survived the  Bedwas  disaster  in 1952 doing his job ( it burnt half of his skin off)
 I've never known a timberman ( in the mines)  by anything else, but to work on the supports underground.

Kind regards
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: desmo11225 on Thursday 28 June 12 16:31 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone
                       What a wonderful welcome, Thank you very much and already plenty of people know about Timbermen Underground, I have written to the  University of Wales, Swansea, to the Manuscropt Records & Photographs Library and Information Centre, also the Audiotapes,Videotapes& Banners at the South Wales MinersLibrary. that would be something to come up with wouldn't it.
                      Also thank you for adding Neath Fair-Timbermen Under Ground.
           About Myself!!!!! I started work Jan !940 aged 14yrs 1month, working through to Jan 1950 when the Essential Works Order was removed.
                     My GG Grandfather was Silvanus Jones, I found him on the 1841 census, he was an Iron Miner in Brynmawr, G Grandfather John was killed in an explosion of gunpowder underground aged 34 yrs when my Grampa was 1 yr old, his Uncles Silvanus and Benjamin owned and managed Deep Pit and California Slope adjacent to Round House Farm, Nantyglo, the company was called   Silvanus Jones & Co, Nantyglo.
                        After GGG Sivanus they were all Johns until I arrived and I was Christened John Desmond and my Father was very proud of the fact I didn't work underground, only for about 6/8 months with the horse shoeing smith when his mate was off work injured, they had horses underground in both Glyn Castle Pit and Faldydre level.
                     Once again Thank You All
                                  desmo11225
Title: Re: Timbermen Underground
Post by: Brian T3 on Saturday 30 June 12 15:49 BST (UK)
The things RootsChat get me looking at ::)

Have a look at this YouTube video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_B3XwyU63o

It's about Timbering in Underground Anthracite Mines, but I'm sure something similar happened here.

 This demo bears NO relationship at all to the way it was done in the S.Wales mines I worked in.
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: desmo11225 on Monday 02 July 12 15:38 BST (UK)
Hello All
            I've had a look at the u tube video and yes this is sort of, roughly what I was thinking of,  the demonstration at Neath Fair I saw, would be great on a film like that
      The posts were not much different but the cross member was notched so that the post fitted in neatly, obviously there were no chain saws then,all the work done with an axe with a very wide blade as shown but not double sided but very,very sharp.
              Also the Norway timber was very straight, stripped of bark and very seasoned and light in weight, I unloaded many hundreds of tons from the rail trucks and stacked it in the sidings at Glyn Castle Colliery, we had a nice little gang of us who did this, also timber from France which had very thick bark with shrapnel in it.
                    I notice in another post that in a list of occupations in mines, Miners were first then Timbermen.
                 Thank you all who have been interested in Timbermen Underground especially, brian T3, cell,falkyrn, and colin.
                 Take Care
                           desmo11225 
                       
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: Brian T3 on Monday 02 July 12 17:36 BST (UK)
Hi Desmo,
 It was many years ago I worked in the mines (I'm 75 now.)
You mention the lightweight Norway pine, which was great
 for handling &(  firewood on block day ;D)
Where I worked in South Pit & North Rhondda in Glyncorrwg
 the timbermen or repairers were only allowed to use the heavy
French oak for their timber sets. Very heavy but much stronger.
  Regards,
     Brian
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: Mart56 on Tuesday 10 July 12 11:06 BST (UK)
Neath Library (upstairs) offers free access to their records of the Neath Guardian newspaper.  You might be interested to see if their September issues give some reports on the activities you saw at Neath Fair.
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: desmo11225 on Tuesday 10 July 12 13:01 BST (UK)
Hello Mart 56
                     Thank you for replying to my post, would you give me a bit more info on how to get in touch with Neath Library and do you remember the Timbermen showing off thier skills at Neath Fair around 1947/8/9.
                           I live in Luton Beds now, have done since Jan 1950,I visit my family in Resolven more or less every year so I'm rather far away.
                  Any help would be much appreciated
                              Regards
                                   desmo
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: Morganllan on Wednesday 18 July 12 17:42 BST (UK)
.... a bit more info on how to get in touch with Neath Library....

Here's a link to the website:

http://www.npt.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=1244

Best Wishes
Morgan
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: desmo11225 on Monday 10 December 12 20:58 GMT (UK)
Thank you Morganallan for replying to me, it's a long time since I heard from you, unfortunatly I have never found anyone who remembers the Timbermen demonstrating at Neath Fair.
                So I'm asking if you can help me with something else ?????Some years ago my friend and I stayed at a farm in Pont Neath Vaughn, the farm was as far up the valley as you could go up the side of the river over a tiny bridge and down the other side, the farm was in the trees. Do youknow the name of that farm.?????
           I'm asking because my friend and I were shown the Stained Glass Window that the Swansea University Student son had made for Christchurch Cathedral, Port Stanley, The Falkland Islands and we have a photograph of it.
           You can see a photograph of the window on Port Stanleys website, it has a sheep in it and is entirely different to all the other windows, easily spotted
            My friends Daughter-in-law [A Micro Biologist]has seen the window in Port Stanley, Can you find who made it please          Regards   Des
                             
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: Morganllan on Monday 10 December 12 23:38 GMT (UK)
Hello Des  :)

I'm sorry but I'm not sure about the farm but if you look at a satellite view map of Pontneddfechan you may be able to spot the place where you stayed. It could be Glan-yr-afon Farm?

I know that Swansea Metropolitan University has an excellent Stained Glass Department - School of Glass - so they may be able to provide information about the artist who designed the Post Liberation Memorial Window.

Kind Regards
Morgan
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: Mart56 on Tuesday 11 December 12 08:10 GMT (UK)
Virtually the last farm on the Glamorgan side of the county boundary is Ynyscymmer, but much of Pontneathvaughan lies in Breconshire.
Title: Re: Neath Fair - Timbermen Underground
Post by: desmo11225 on Tuesday 11 December 12 12:54 GMT (UK)
Thank you Gents, I have passed on your info. to  Jon and Rachel they live in Shap Cumbria, both Biologists with PhDs so I'm sure they will be skillful enough to get what they want from the Gen. you've given me.
                 Once again Thank You
             Have a Good Christmas and I'll keep in touch when I know some thing
                        All the Best
                                 Des