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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: DeanneandTony on Tuesday 26 June 12 05:03 BST (UK)
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Hi
Does anyone have any suggestions on where to start looking for a possible illegitimate baby?
Agnes Faulds Wilson Brown was born in Govan, Glasgow in 1918. It seems possible that she had an illegitmate baby born sometime prior to 1944 but where to look?
Scotsland People throws up SO many possibilities that it would cost far too much to explore especially when this is only a guess on our part, albeit a guess by a number of family members independently.
If anyone has any suggestions we'd love to hear them. There is definitely a 'family secret' and it seems it was probably a child from what hasn't been said.
Nothing like being sure about things is there? ;)
Deanne
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When did she marry?
Why do you think she may have had a child before her marriage?
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Visiting the <a href="http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/BirthDeathMarriage_Citizenship/GenealogyCentre/">Genealogy Centre</a> in Glasgow or <a href="http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/">ScotlandsPeople Centre</a> in Edinburgh may be the best option for this search
I imagine such a random search may take the best part of a visit to complete
At least you would be able to check out all the ones you found online
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Unfortunately we are in Australia so we can't visit the Centres otherwise that's exactly what we would do.
Deanne
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We believe that there was a child because there is a 'family secret'. We have looked at all sorts of possibilities for this ie an intellectually disabled brother but that is well known.
Her sister in law (who was quite upfront) didn't know anything that might be hidden but she was surprised that when we went back to Glasgow in 2002 that Agnes had told us she didn't remember lots of addresses (and there was nothing wrong with her memory) and that there was no one left there, even though we found out later there were some cousins she was in contact with near to one of the only two addresses she did give us.
Further, her 1st cousin and great friend also indicated to her daughters that there was a 'secret' and seemed to indicate that it centred around Agnes and would not be drawn. The daughters now in their 70's believed more from what wasn't said that it was a child.
So, we could all be wrong BUT we arrived at this conclusion from a number of little things and therefore would like to have a go at proving or disproving it.
She married in 1942 (I think, certainly early 40's and my mother in law was the only child born in 1945)
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Hi ,
Scotlandspeople has a marriage for an Agnes Faulds W Brown 1943 , Lanark
ev
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Hi
Someone with more experience of scotlandspeople than me might tell me I am wrong.
If you go into the births section put Faulds into the surname leave christian name blank search for dates 1930- 1944 put Lanark into county. go into advanced search type agnes into the box click search you only get 4 hits might be worth a look.
Keep in mind that you will not get images to look at you would have to order certs (100 year rule)
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thank you Bruce and Ev.
Yes, 1943 would be the right marriage.
I'll try look at those births Bruce, happy to order some certs if they will help solve this.
Deanne
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Hi
If Agnes did have a child prior to marriage the said child might have been fostered out to someone and still have the surname Brown.
About three years ago we found out that my mother in law had a daughter born in 1944 in Glasgow (from what we can gather my mother in law was forced by her family to give my sister in law away). My sister in law was raised by another lady but her surname was never changed.
I noticed on GRU that you and one other person have a tree which has an Agnes Brown born 1918 in Glasgow, I dont know if the other person is related to you but if they are not, it is worth getting in contact with them to see if it is the same Agnes.
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Hi Nettie
Interesting about that surname not being changed, hence my wanting to look at Brown's to start with as we have no other clues.
The other person on GRU would be one of my husband's cousins.
We have often wondered if someone will one day track down the family and announce themselves but it might be difficult since they immigrated to Australia in 1950.
Will keep searching.
Thanks all.
Any other suggestions gratefully accepted.
Deanne
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I do know that if Agnes had a child prior to marriage then Agnes name would be on the birth certficate, but if said child has been adopted then the records would probably be sealed.
If the records are sealed I,m not 100 per sure but I think someone like an intermediate has to look at them.
If you do look on scotlands people I would look for births from 1936 to 1942 as Agnes would have been 18 in 1936 and I would start with Govan first.
Its funny how families know things as my husband and his brother were never told anything about thier sister by my mother in law and then out of the blue we got a phone call from my husbands cousin in NZ who we had never met or spoke to (she had managed to track us down after doing family research) about 5 years ago and she mentioned that there was something about my mother in law having a daughter when she was younger.
As I said we found out three years ago that this was correct. :)
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Deanne ,
There are 1400 Brown births in Lanark 1940 - 1943
You might want to keep that in mind before ordering any certificates
Also nothing to say that any possible child may have been born before 1940 and born outside Lanark
ev
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If the father accepted responsibility for an illegitimate child would the birth be registered in the father's surname c1940s?
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The 1943 marriage took place in Govan
The child may have been raised by paternal grandparents
Any relatives still in Scotland who could check for possible births at a genealogy centre?
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No, unfortunately there are no relatives left in Scotland now (well that we know of anyway).
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Do you have her marriage record to see her address?
When and where did her parents die?
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If the father accepted responsibility for an illegitimate child would the birth be registered in the father's surname c1940s?
Yes but ...
.... the father's name would only be on the birth certificate if either (a) he accompanied the mother to the registrar's and signed the certificate alongside her when she went to register the birth or (b) he was subsequently found to be the father in a court action for paternity. It is quite possible that the entire parish knew who the father of an illegitimate child was, but only in these circumstances will he be named on the birth certificate.
There is no restriction on naming putative fathers on the marriage and death certificates of illegitimate children.
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So in effect there is a possibility that the child's surname may not be Brown and this makes searching even more difficult
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So in effect there is a possibility that the child's surname may not be Brown and this makes searching even more difficult
Not necessarily, because even if the child's father did accompany the mother and sign the certificate, the child should still be indexed under the mother's surname as well as the father's.
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For some reason there was an increase in illegitimate births in the years 1939 - 1945 ;)
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Yes we do have the details of her parents deaths and where she was living when she married. That was one of the addresses she couldn't remember (despite the fact that we found later that she did have her marriage certificate with those details on).
The only addresses she gave us were where she was born and where she and her husband lived immediately prior to immigrating. Again, this added to our suspicions about her not wanting us to have contact with people that may have known her as a young woman.
Thinking about it I need to check when her brother Gavin married as his wife didn't know anything about a family secret so it would have to be prior to their getting together which will narrow the time frame down a bit more.
Deanne
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Thank you for everyone's help on this. We have purchased a couple of birth certificates we thought likely but to no avail.
One day we might be able to find some living relatives of her husband's family the Landers and maybe someone there might have heard the story.
And if we ever get back to Scotland we'll put some time aside to search the records properly for ourselves.
Or maybe someday someone will be trying to find their mother and find this string of queries...... We live in hope.
Deanne
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Hi, This might be something or nothing, but there is (girl) Brown , born Govan, 1943. Perhaps someone going to genalogy centre might just look this one up for you. I have sometimes found that illegitimate girl babies were often given their mothers christian name(s).
Moderator Comment: Birth details too recent to include here on the open forum.
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Hi
Yes we tried that one - really thought we had something there but no, very firmly with both parents on certificate :-(
Deanne
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Sorry Mod :( Forgot!!
Deanne, something may turn up in the future.