RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: sistera on Wednesday 20 June 12 04:24 BST (UK)
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Hi there, I'm searching for the father of Jacob Miller:
his name was Henry Miller.
Jacob was Brn:abt: 1810 in Wexford Ireland.
Married a Sarah Rynhart abt: 1824 in Enniscorthy Ireland.
appreciate and feed back :)
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You usually need a more detailed location, i.e. the town, townland parish, to start a search for records before the start of civil records, particularly one as early as Henry's baptism. You also need to know the denomination of your Miller and Rynhart families...
Few parishes, particularly in rural areas, have records back as far as 1810.
see: Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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Thanks for your reply shane, The birth cert Of Matthew Miller only came into my hands the other day
Matthew was the survivor of a twin at birth
Brn:28/03/1858 Illawong NSW Australia,Died abt:1917
Father:Jacob Miller
Brn:1810 Wexford Ireland & was a grazier
age: 48
married: 1842 in Enniscorthy
mother:Sarah formally Rynhart
age:34
Brn:abt 1824 in Enniscorthy
Died: 1892
The informant of the birth cert is Jacob Miller of iIllalong
I'm not sure when he came to australia
I was told jacobs father was Henry Miller
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....
birth cert Of Matthew Miller.....
Brn:28/03/1858 Illawong NSW Australia,Died abt:1917
Father:Jacob Miller
Brn:1810 Wexford Ireland & was a grazier / age: 48
married: 1842 in Enniscorthy
mother:Sarah formally Rynhart / age:34
Brn:abt 1824 in Enniscorthy / Died: 1892
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you didn't mention the denomination for your Rynhart or Miller familes... if they were RC then the main parish for the town of Enniscorthy is St. Mary's and records go back to the late 1790s. The Church of Ireland records for Enniscorthy town also appear to back to the 1790s.
Neither of these are online on RootsIreland (pay-website) at the moment, but presumably will be added at some stage.
You need a more detailed location for your Miller family to start a search for them... County Wexford has about 50 parishes (assuming RC), and many dont have records back before 1830...
Shane
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Thanks again Shane,i don't know the denomination of the family..but the family member who sent me the birth cert of matthew miller,has sent me a doc of MARRIED FEMALE IMMIGRANT : Sarah miller/ rynehart.A native of : Inniscorthy,daughter of john & mary Rynehart a farmer. Calling:Dairy woman;age 19,I know this probably does:nt help, I'll get back to the family member and ask her if she knows. cheers
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There are some Rynehart entries on Griffith's valuation in Co. Wexford, including one for a John Rynehart in Templeshannon Civil parish, which is part of Enniscorthy town. This John is listed with about 5 acres of land in Drumgold townland .. so possibly a farmer... His residence must be located somewhere else, as there doesn't seem to be a house listed for him on the property.
Griffith's was a land taxation survey carried out between the mid 1840s and about 1864.
This entry is dated 1853, so could possibly be little late for Sarah's father, but possibly a relation - maybe her brother ?
see : Rynehart, Wexford (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=18&Submit.y=16&familyname=rynehart&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=WEXFORD&unionname=&parishname=)
Shane
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This's the death index of jacob miller,father Henry. A doc stating
New South Wales,Australia Immigrant passenger list 1828-1896
sarah Miller
birth yr:1823
age 19
arrived date:29 jan 1842
vessel name: Hope
I presume jacob may have been on this ship as well
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thanks so much shane at least I've got sarah's side to go with and sorry about the last message posted,did'nt relize ??? :-[
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:) hi shane,The burial place for Jacob & wife Sarah miller is at"the Young General Cemetery NSW. The denomination of jacobs father & mother is Anglican
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I've come across a couple of Miller marriages to Rynhart and variations. It's quite likely that these Millers were Palatine settlers from early 1700's - an Ann Miller (Muller) and prob a John Muller came over - Ann Miller was recorded on Abel Ram's lands at Old Ross in 1720. See Henry Jones book - Palatine Families of Ireland. Many Palatines seemed to move on after a period, sometimes a few generations, though some stayed. Trust this helps
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:) Thankyou so much for a reply, I was'nt expecting any,I'll check out your info,cheers
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You're welcome. I'm trying to sort out the various Rynhart families of Wexford at present, so came across them. I can't be certain yet where this Sarah's parents lived but I suspect it was Clonhasten, just outside Enniscorthy. What I thought curious about the shipping record for this couple is that Jacob Miller's parents were stated also to be living in Enniscorthy, so must have moved north from Old Ross.
What I know of the other Miller/ Rynhart marriages (assuming same Miller families) is that the Rynharts seemed to move south from Ferns- Enniscorthy area to the Ross district e.g. Stephen Rynhart who married a Mary Miller and settled at Listerlin etc.
Perhaps you can help me? What happened to this Sarah R & Jacob Miller in Australia? Did they settle and have children etc., any surviving generations? thx
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:)Hi there nice to know there's someone else out there searching for the same family.Jacob & Sarah died in Young New South Wales,Jacob:1897- Sarah:1892
Jacob & sarah had a son[not sure if anymore] Matthew Miller
Brn:28.3.1858 Illalong NSW Australia
Marr:23.7.1878 to Mary Annie Spliet in Young NSW
Died:24.9.1917 Yong NSW
They had 10 children :possibly 2 more
There are heaps of Millers living in Aussie land
In the 1930 Australian Electroll of Young NSW there were arnd 32 Miller families living there. My husbands mother is from the Miller family: John R W Miller was his Great Grandad Brn: 1880
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:-[so sorry Scollagh,I've made a mistake,the 10 poss 12 children are from Jacob & sarah,Their daughter was buried with them as you can see in the pic I sent.I've a birth cert of Matthew Miller brn:1858 elder born of twins other not present, Father:Jacob Miller- Grazier age 48 wexford Ireland
d.o.place marr:1842 Enniscorthy
mothers name: Sarah formerly Rynhart age 34.Enniscorthy
Children:Bedellia 14yrs
Henry W 7yrs
sarah 4yrs
george 2yrs
2 females & 1 male dead.these are the only children at this time, Im not sure if i'm aloud to post a copy of birth cert for you,once again sorry for the mistake. cheers
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Full certs are not permitted in posts, just sections of them to help with deciphering any difficult to read sections.
Now that you both have three or more posts you can use to Personal Message system, and use this to share your emails addresses, and then share certs etc in private by email.
Leinster Moderator
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Thanks Sistera, I'll add them to Rynhart records and let you know when we figure out just how her parents relate to the earlier Rynharts. I think it's almost certain these were Palatine families - even though they arrived in Ireland in 1709/10, they seemed to have a hunger to move on. Of course there was lots of emigration from Ireland during the 1800s which also encouraged the desire to get to 'the promised land'. That's a fine headstone :)
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:)Thats ok glad to help out, the writing on the birth cert is a bit hard to read the old writing,Jacob's occupation was an Oversee not grazier. Any chance of you finding a [henry miller] jacobs father in your travells for the Rynharts it would be much appreciated.cheers
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Thanks, I will keep an eye on the Millers of that period. I thought it said Grazier, but I haven't checked, on Jacob's shipping form. I presume another word of the time for a farm labourer? What's an Oversee - steward or manager of some sort?
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Hi there, an overseer is some one who's incharge etc:[foreman, supervisor] I thought it read grazier for jacobs [occupation]on his son matthews b,cert.but I had it checked out & it was overseer, thanks I would really appeciate it if you send me any info on the early years of the miller family :) Good luck in your search for the Rynharts, you never know you maybe related to the famous rynhart billionair family ;D
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Millionaires!, I don't think so.. small farmers and artisans are more the run of my families ;) What I have found is, what I thought, as quite a high rate of multiple marraiages between families. I suppose between the fact of the Palatine heritage and also a mostly Protestant heritage, people chose from within a small enough pool. But then, maybe this features generally in rural areas before the 1800's. People were limited by travel in how far they might reach in terms of a spouse, never mind protecting family assets etc.
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;D Wow multiple marriages, good luck with that.While I was searching for a glady's miller I came across 3 of them all had same parents different husbands and born same year, different months,I asked a family member about this and was told they were half sister's. my mind boggles ::)
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I am looking for information about a Miller/Rynhart marriage in Wexford too.
Stephen Rinehart/Rynhart married Mary Miller in 1839 in the Diocese of Ferns. but we know nothing else about them except Stephen was born about 1799 and Mary about 1814 and they moved to County Kilkenny where they both died in Listerlin Parish.
They had 5 children all of whom moved to North America. I am descended from their daughter Margaret Jane Rinehart (1860-1924).
Any advice about trying to learn more about Stephen Rinehart/Rynhart and Mary Miller would be most appreciated.
Rich
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the same combination of surnames but the other way 'round than sistera. Neither surname is very common, most Miller households were in Ulster, whilst the Rinehart/Rynhart was much rarer..
Where did the marriage reference originate ? It sounds like something from a marriage license or bond index.
Unfortunately you usually require a more detailed location like the town, townland or parish to start a search - Ferns is a diocese and in these indexes relates to the Church of Ireland Diocese of that name, which covered parts of counties Laois and Wicklow as well as Wexford.
Basically most of the same answers apply to your search as above - see reply #2 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,603168.msg4527057.html#msg4527057) onward.
Listerlin, or Listerling as it's sometimes listed, is the name of a civil and Church of Ireland parish - which suggests this family may be CofI..
Shane
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In the Index civil registrations there's just one reference to the death of Stephen Rinhard in 1872, age 72 - which I presume is your Stephen ?
What's interesting about it is the registration district, which is New Ross, based in the Co. Wexford town of the same name, which suggests that Listerlin is quite close to the town. A quick look at the map show that the parish is just 9km to the west of New Ross.
Shane
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you probably already have this - but just in case....
Your Stephen is listed on Griffith's valuation in the the townland of Listerlin, in Listerlin civil parish. Listerlin is quite a large townland consisting of just over 1,400 acres. Most of the townland seems to be owned by a Wellesley Prendergast esq., who is also the landlord for the Rynhart property.
Stephen is shown as occupying 'House, offices, and Land' of just over 12 acres. Offices is the term used on the valuation for farm buildings, workshops etc. The entry is dated 1850.
Shane
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:)Hi there Roke, I'm not sure if the Stephen Rhnehart your looking for is related my tree but you never know could be related to our Sarah Rynehart,who married Jacob Miller [reply 1],I've not started the Rynharts side yet as I;m looking for Henry Miller,Jacobs father,gets to confusing as I'm also searching my fathers side Roberts in [Denbigshire] in Wales, sorry i can't help you at this time but will do if i hear or find some info for you,cheers
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Thank you all for your responses!
Yes, Stephen Rinehart is the one who died 7 Feb 1872 in Listerlin as was reported in New Ross.
Attached is the letter from a researcher in the 1990s that lists the Rinehart marriages in Wexford including my Stephen Rynhart and Mary Miller.
There is a group of Palantine Rynehart researchers around the world that have been great at providing more information (like the letter listing marriages). They seem pretty sure most are descended from Heinrich Rhinehart who came from Germany to Ireland with the Palantines about 1709 but records are scarce in connecting all the families.
I have been directed by the Diocese of Ferns to the RCB Library (http://www.ireland.anglican.org/about/42) and am waiting to hear back from them.
Thanks again!
Rich
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>:( Im so annoyed my pc has been down & out for 4days and only just recieved it,so sorry I could'nt reply to you, thanks so much for this info Roke, I hope Schollagh gets to read this it could be of help to him as well,he also is sorting out the rynehart family. I noticed Jacob and sarah on the form as well, we did'nt know the date of their marriage. Once again cheers to you ;)
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Yes, I've been in touch with 'Roke' - not quite sure how your Sarah R, born to John R if I recall correctly, fits in yet - needs investigation of Enniscorthy parish records.
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:) Hi scollagh,good to know your still following this family,a family member sent this doc to me after i sent the info I received from Roke. Sarah Miller daughter of John [a farmer]& Mary Rynhart[a dairy woman]at 19 on the vessel: Hope age 19 jan 1842, so maybe with more investagation. cheers, sorry the files to big to send:doc says:
Sarah Miller
Married Female Immigrant
A native of Enniscorthy,daughter of John & Mary Rynhart
Farmer
Calling: Dairy Maid
age 19
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Hi there,
I've recieved this document from a related member of jacob miller it seems jacob was brn abt: 1818 not 1810 & the parents of jacob{HenryMiller and now we have his wifes name as Elisa[no maiden name].I do'nt understand what the [REL: Epis age 24yrs RW: yes.] on this doc means,it also reads that a Margaret Crofts & Jane Ligo,under his protection.does this mean that Jacob miller being a [Farm svt]was working for them on their property.I hope this sheds some light in helping me to find Henry & Elisa Miller & John & mary Rynehart :)
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Hi Sistera,
I think this is a transcription of the original shipping and immigration record of 1842. You can view these originals via the Ancestry site. Jacob Miller is son of Henry & Eliza(beth) Miller of Enniscorthy. Sarah Rynhart is daughter of John & Mary Rynhart of Clonhasten, Enniscorthy - farming family. It looks that Margt. Crofts and Jane Ligo are minors, neighbours of Jacob Miller and travelling under his charge - responsibility. That's way the original reads to me, at any rate!
If you had time, you could search through all the other passengers and see if there are any other relatives of above on board. I see in adjacent family on register that both parents died on board and an 11 year old boy was presumably left orphaned. I'd guess in those situations, other passengers sometimes took minors into their charge as well.
Hope to find out more about these people in due course.
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I have only now come across this thread.
I have a hand written transcript of Miller baptismal records from the Church of Ireland parish of Inistioge, Co Kilkenny (which is close to New Ross and Co Wexford). These include Jacob, baptised 3 April 1814. He is shown as the son of Henry and Elizabeth. (Actually the transcript shows "Mary" not "Henry" but as Henry and Elizabeth were having children before and after 1814, I think it safe to make the assumption that a mistake has been made.)
I believe that Elizabeth's maiden name was Flood.
I am descended from Henry's brother, Matthew, whose wife was Elizabeth's sister, Mary, and would be interested in following up a Palatinate connection if there is more information to be had.
As to sistera's query about the words in square brackets, this means: Religion - Episcopalian; age - 24 years; can read and write.
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This is most intriguing - the plot thickens!! There's a Stephen Rynhart married 1839 to a Mary Miller and who lived at Listerlin, near Inistioge. In same year a Mary Anne Rynhart married a William Miller.
I had at first thought the Millers came from the New Ross/ Inistioge area but then shifted moer to thinking they came from near Enniscorthy as that's where Henry & Eliza Miller are recorded in 1842 - there are also Millers on Abel Ram estate near Gorey in 1813 and 1836.
But it seems from your info, that this Jacob Miller was born Inistioge area and that his parents then must have subsequently moved up to Enniscorthy - a good distance in those days. I wonder could Mary Miller above and possibly William be related to Henry & Elizabeth or to your Matthew Miller?? If she was, it would help explain why Stephen Rynhart moved down (as I think) to that area to live. As an aside, there's also an Eliza Leach or Leech, father Matthew Leach, I think from Killeen near Inistioge who marries a John Rinehart same period, lived at Listerlin and emigrated also to Aus in 1854 - definitely the place to go at the time!!
I've also been in touch with another Miller in Australia, who is descended from a Joseph Miller born 1789 in Wexford who left for England and whose son, Jabez Miller emigrated to Australia. This Joseph would be contemporaneous with Henry Miller and Matthew Miller, I think?
Any insights appreciated - with a bit of collective effort, we might yet unravel!
Barry D
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I am afraid that my Miller knowledge is sketchy. I know that my Millers farmed between New Ross and Inistioge and the male descendant is recorded at Ballycocksoost in the 1901 census.
As to Henry (the father of Jacob baptised at Inistioge), I had thought that he might have been the Henry recorded in the Griffith's valuation in the townland of Killeen but he would have been getting on a bit in age.
As regards Enniscorthy, it would be about 20 miles away from where the Millers were farming, well within possible social distance even in the early 1800s.
My oldest known Miller, the father of Matthew and Henry (and grandfather of Jacob) was probably Henry Miller. I have no date for him but believe that his sons, Matthew and Henry both married in January 1799.
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Just to add to the Miller/Rinehart connection, the children of Stephen Rinehart and Mary Miller moved to Saint John, New Brunswick in Canada in the early 1870s. Two of the Rinehart sons married two Miller girls related to a William Miller who was born about 1805 in County Kilkenny, Ireland and moved to Canada in the 1820s and established a family at Caverhill, New Brunswick, Canada.
There is some curiosity as to whether this William Miller who moved to Canada is related to Mary Miller (about 1816-1885, wife of Stephen Rinehart) and might have influenced the Rinehart children's choice of New Brunswick when they left Ireland.
I have no documentary evidence of any relationship other than William (1805-1881) was born in County Kilkenny and Mary Miller & Stephen Rinehart's family lived in Listerlin Parish, County Kilkenny and then both families ended up in New Brunswick, Canada where they inter-married.
Rich
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Thanks for info, Camlin. If the Jacob Miller that you have born to Henry & Eliza Miller is the same Jacob Miller that married Sarah Rynhart and emigrated to Australia in 1842, it looks fairly clear that Henry & Eliza Miller were living in Enniscorthy at that time (according to shipping forms), so unlikely perhaps to be back in Killeen in 1850s.
Enniscorthy would be about 30 miles - 50 km from Inistioge. Yes, you'd travel between them in the 1880s on foot or trap but not really on a regular basis, I think. Consider that the Rynhart families seem to start around 1710 near Gorey - and 150 years later, most are still farming within a 15 mile radius. So my sense, is that people tended to stay closer to their immediate relations if they could. If they didn't stay locally, they tended to move much further afield - Dublin, England, USA, Canada, Australia.
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You were asking re possible Palatine connections - this I posted on Ancestry messages recently but will copy here:
There were Palatine Mueller/ Miller families who came in 1710. According to Henry Jones book, Palatine Families of Ireland, a John (Johann) Jost Miller is recorded in 1715 as head of one family likely settled in Wexford. His wife was possibly Ann Miller and she is listed as head of family in 1720 on Old Ross estate run by Abel Ram family, which estate was near what is New Ross now. There are possible children/ descendants - John Miller, Henry Miller, Thomas Miller and James Miller. These were made freemen at various dates ranging from 1748-1759.
There's a pretty good survey of the Old Ross estate, in National Library Ireland, dated 1818 but there's no mention of Millers there then. This survey is very detailed with description of farms, land, tenants & leases. So the Millers above had either died out by abt 1800 or moved out. If they moved, they could easily have relocated to the Tighe estate around Inistioge, I guess.
I can also tell you that in same NLI papers, there's an 1836 rental list for Abel Ram estate near Gorey, north Wexford – on this a John Miller is leasing land at Clonattin nr Gorey, Wexford. In 1813, there’s similar list for same estate containing a Lewis Miller, Esq – i.e. a gentleman, also leasing at Clonattin.
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I am grateful for this information and leads to follow up.
I only quite recently learned (and not from family sources) that my Millers might have a Palatine connection. Sadly the Miller surname is not, in itself, diagnostic as it has English and Scots sources as well.
The family Christian names, although anglicized, would, I think, be consistent with a Palatine background. I have in mind Matthew and Jacob and later a Hubert.
(PS If I don't respond quickly to further comments, it is because I am away from my computer for a few days.)
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:) wow,this's great thanks so much for this info, and jacob baptized 3/4/1814,i presume he must've been brn early1814 as the info I got was 1818 then 1810. I'm not on ancestry, im in touch with a miller decendant who's on ancestry and has a family tree going, i also have a cousin who was on ancestry.This's such alot to take in,any chance of copying that shipping list record for me. Thanks again,good to know we have a possible maiden name for elisabeth [flood] they were certainly hard times back then, cheers keep me posted on any more info, :)
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Hi there Scollagh, I went on to the New South Wales Shipping records and found the document, i'd also would like to clarify the birth date of Jacob as I was told 1810 then 1818 as he was 24yrs when he sailed to Australia, but if Camlin has a written transcript of jacob baptized on the 3-4-1814 would it have his b,date on it also, for our records here in aussie land :-\
Family search has him est:1818.I also googled Old Ship Picture Galleries, clicked on :old ships-H & found 9 pics of a ship [Hope] not sure if this could be the one they sailed on but worth a look. I'll also see if i can find some info on willam & mary miller,cheers
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I don't know - I guess it hinges on whether it's the same Jacob Miller. I know it was common back in the 1800s for people to be a little uncertain of their ages, particularly as they got older. Your Jacob Miller does indicate age 24 when emigrating in 1842. I see that Sarah has age 20 written on form, then crossed off and 19 inserted. You'd think that Jacob might know if he was 24 or 28 but maybe not? Or perhaps there was good reason to underestimate a little?
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I had a Robyn who's on ancestry and is also following miller tree and wants to know if this's our Henry Miller in 1881 Henry Miller Ennistiogue,kilkenny farmer a prisoner at NAAS Prison,no other info as to why he would be there if this's our henry miller. :-\ any info woud be appreciated,sorry my pc has been out of action and had to change everthing including new email address,it's been a headache.
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trying to send this document on henry miller protection of property and privacy act 1881
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/countrywide/xmisc/prison-1881.txt
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I've been looking more closely at the Rynhart records around Enniscorthy and district recently and whilst I can't be certain I think that this Sarah Rynhart was born in 1823 to John Rynhart & Mary Daly who marry 1803 in St.Mary's Enniscorthy and farm at nearby Clonhasten, Enniscorthy. So, if the case, she was likely a later child of this couple.
According to parish records, they're both 'of this parish' at time of marriage and there is another Daly record in same time period, a Jane born to James and Mary Daly in 1804.
As regards this John Rynhart, I think he was born in 1782 to John Rinehart & Anne Shaw at Ballymore, Ferns. I have reason to think this family moved to Enniscorthy area in 1790s and this John Snr is the man recorded in 1798 at Clonhasten.
There's a certain amount of 'educated guesswork' in this, but it seems the most likely at present. I've added in Sarah & Jacob into my provisional family tree on Ancestry for the Wexford Rynharts. I think they had a child Elisabeth in NSW who married a Charles Doring but if anyone can fill me after that, I'd be grateful to add in rest of line. If you contact me by message, I'll send my email. thx Barry D.
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Thankyou for this info barry, Yes there's a daughter Elizabeth M Miller to Jacob & sarah she was born abt 1862. Theres a person on ancestry doing the rynhart /miller tree and I'm on as a guest,I will email her and ask if it's ok to let you on as well as she's appreciating the info I send on from you cheers
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Hi there barry, This's the elizabeth you mentioned, I already have your email. will message you soon.
The Australia Marriage Index shows Elisabeth Miller marrying Charles Doring in 1881, registered at Young New South Wales, registration no 6238
cheers