RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: Ann Baker on Wednesday 13 June 12 00:54 BST (UK)
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Hi All
The dreaded day has arrived and is time to research my Campbells. I know that my gtx2 grandmother Sarah Campbell's parents were Matthew Campbell and Jane Campbell (nee Campbell). I know via Griffiths Matthew leased land in Crowey townland, Tehallan Parish, Co Monaghan.
I have baptism details for their children so need to be following those up to see where they all went barring Sarah cos I know she married and came to Scotland- all were born between about 1815 and 1830. The baptisms were recorded as Church of Ireland but I have a sneaky feeling they were Presbyterians. I've searched all the usual sites for a marriage between Matthew and Jane but no joy.
Does anyone know where the nearest CoI and Prebyterian parish churches to Crowey townland are? - have googled and found not a thing. Am trying to get ahead of the game before I go there in August as I may need to contact said church(es) for access to records (if they'll let me) if I draw a blank at PRONI.
If anyone is familiar with the area and has any suggestions will be most welcome. (Crowey btw is north East of Monaghan town up towards the Armagh border. Roughly where the N2 meets the N12)
Any help most gratefully received cos have a feeling this is going to be a tough one to crack!
Ann :D
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MONAGHAN RESOURCES has lots of links, including this page listing many Monaghan church records- nothing listed for Tehallan Parish (Church of Ireland):
http://ahd.exis.net/monaghan/churchregisters.htm
PRONI do have some records for the Presbyterian churches in Monaghan but not sure of exact dates.
PRONI also have this in their Will Extracts-
"Probate of the Will with one Codicil of Elizabeth Campbell late of Crowey County Monaghan Spinster who died 3 June 1912 granted at Armagh to Samuel Campbell Farmer" with exact wording of the Will:
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=272442
Will mentions Tyholland Parish Church which might be worth checking (see first link in this post for dates of records and you can also check to see if PRONI has copies)
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Yes, the Campbells of Crowey attended Tyholland Church of Ireland, there is at least 1 Gravestone there with Crowey mentioned on it for your Campbells.
I have the graveyard photographed and they should be on the IGP website which is FREE. It is just a website where people submit photographs taken while visiting graveyards to help fill the vacuum on lack of on line records.
If you are visiting Ireland looking for these records for your Campbells they are in the safe in St Salvator's Church in Glaslough, the records are looked after by a church member who is extremely helpful. This church is on the Leslie estate where Paul McCartney from Beatles got married. You will need to give a few days notice if visiting to make sure this person is around!
This is one I have but Elizabeth's should be on IGP as she is buried with her sister Anne, they have a stone in Tyholland!!
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St. Sillians, Tyholland, County Monaghan is listed here with photographs!!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0nkv/ but I don't see Anne's one there. I should have it on my other PC but will need a while to get it.
Dave.
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Wow! Thanks both ever so!
I've tracked down the site that shows what PRONI holds and will be there before I head back south but will definitely be visiting the churches so I'll track down the wee lady who looks after the records.
I do remember us going to a church with a graveyard in that area which was full of Campbells last time we were there (6 years or so ago) but I remember the church was locked up and hadn't done a lot of Irish reserach then so probably didn't take as much note as I should have. I need to try and find the photos we took of the headstones on. the basis that they're Campbells and might be mine!
Am not going over til beginning of August so have a wee bit of time to dig a bit more before I go
Many thanks again!
Ann :D :D :D
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Well firstly I apologize that this has been such a tough nut to crack... ;D ;D
Now, I looked on IGP and was surprised Anne's wasn't there but can see why! The quality isn't great but am attaching it here..
You can go to PRONI but what you need is in that church safe and you can view them...there is a fee to help contribute to upkeep of the church!
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Hi Dave
My sarah's sister Ann married an Andrew McQuay over in Ahghabog (have copy of the marriage cert). Is it usual for married women in Ireland to have only their maiden name on a headstone?
I need to go to PRONI as not just these guys am looking for. Have Connollys also in Monaghan (Ematris), Torrens in Co. Tyrone and Thompson in Co. Fermanagh plus other have no idea where exactly in Ireland who'll have to wait til I find out - Carrolls, Bislands and McGoverns ???
So St Sillian's is the Tyholland parish church? but the records are held at St Salvators? (sorry to be thick - brain fried reading a will). If you know name of said wee lady, could you pm me?
Thanks ever so
Ann :D :D :D
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I have seen both, where someone keeps married name and some that reverted to using maiden name!
Yes St Sillian's is the official name. Because the attendance figures are so low some churches only open 1 or 2 Sundays per month and one rector can look after several churches. If you are going to Ematris you will find that the rector there looks after 14 churches. So, you are not being thick....the same rector covers both churches plus others and St Salvator's in Glaslough, (often called Donagh church) is more secure!
Now, to ask you a rhetorical question.... Why Aghabog?? Bride's normally marry in their local church!!
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0nkv/ should have Aghabog photos too! and photos of Ematris....which is often called St John's...or Kilcrow..or Dartrey.
The Irish are very generous we often have 3 or 4 names for same church and we often have 2 or 3 places in a county with same townland name...
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Hi Dave
Not absolutely sure why the other side of the county and yes brides usually do marry in their own parishes.
I was having a lot of trouble finding Sarah Campbell and James Connolly's marriage cert. My grandpa always said the family were from Silverstream. So I went to the genie centre in Dublin and got hold of the Griffiths valuation for William Connolly which was in Ematris. I then went to the Land Registry place in Dublin and asked to see the book of corrections and there sure enough when William died his wee farm was taken on by one Elizabeth Jackson who was indeed his wife. So that confirmed what I'd suspected which was the tales my grandpa heard were from his grandma Sarah (Campbell) who indeed was from Silverstream area.
With a good OS map off we went to Corranewy townland, Ematris to have a look. The house has all but fallen down now. So then we knocked on doors and one very helpful farmer sent me down the road to see the local historian chappie. It was him found Sarah's marriage cert and her sister Ann's for me but they were registered under Cootehill (which is only a few miles away). That led onto finding other Connolly marriages. they were all Presbyterian in the same place. The Andrew mcQuay that Ann married lived on a farm very close to the Connolly acre (and it was just over an acre) so I can only speculate that Sarah went to visit or live with her sister, met James Connolly and there you have it.
So that's the wee tale behind how they came to be in another place.
Ann :D
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Good to see some family rumours being true......You are certainly up to speed on how to find things and that is by asking the locals!!
Do the same for your Campbells....plus see if that most recent g/stones is one of yours...see who made g/stone then go to them to see if they will tell you who paid for it!
If they won't tell you then ask if it would be possible to forward a letter from you to them if you handed in a letter in a stamped envelope that they could put address on and post!!
Cootehill Registry Office would have been, still is, the office for BDM's in that area of Ireland.
The name Torrens is annoying me, I've seen it somewhere recently and can't think where!! I'll probably be fast asleep some night and it will come to me probably at 4 a.m.....
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Hi Dave
I had a post on here about my Torrens and Thompsons and very recently I got a contact thru my Thompson line so could be that. Is on another board tho. That has yielded some great stuff and as we did a lot of PRONI stuff on them last year (basically anything in the right place with either name we recorded and now it turns out that it's all linked right enough - result there!).
We're going back to Enniskillen this summer as I want to go back to Tempo (Thompson territory) and Fivemiletown (Torrens territory). I've emailed the minister at the church in Cavanaleck to ask if I can see the records but need to write to the one in Tempo as they don't have email!
that's a great tip about the gravestone - never thought of that!
The day we knocked on that wee farmers door in Corranewy was a hoot. we explained what we were looking for. Connolly you say? And that would have been when? I said 1850s ish. he thought for a moment or 2 and then said Ah well you see I wasn't here then . I thought I was going to die laughing. My husband was in hysterics, my daughter too and my uncle who lives in Louth who was driving us about and I couldn't look at each other. memorable moment!
Ann :D
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LOL.... priceless!!
Yes often you see a name and number somewhere on g/stone so worth trying......especially if fairly recent!!
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Hello I am a Campbell descendent. All the tyholland townlands I know well.
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Hi Maria
I'll definitely be visitng Crowey in about 4 and a half weeks as is where my gt x3 grandparents are from. Hoping I might even manage to get back a generation.
If you have any info about them would be great to hear from you
Ann :D
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Well I know a good bit. There were 7 Campbell brothers who arrived in Tyholland from Scotland circa 1780's and they set up home in different townlands in Tyholland [tehallan] They were Church of Ireland and some Presbyterian....and one turned to Catholicism. My great grandmother Mary Campbell who married a Skeath was the daughter of Robert Campbell from the townland of Crumlin a field or two away from Crowey. It seems possible that if you are a Campbell descendant-then we are distant cousins? What information have you? I have just joined
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Hi Maria
I wondered if somewhere along the way they were Scottish but had thought maybe further back. My gt x 3 is Matthew Campbell who married a Jane Campbell but I don't know where.
They had the following children Matilda, Ann, Robert, Sarah, Prudence, Ellen and James. Sarah is my gt gt grandmother. She married a James Connolly in 1855 and they moved to Glasgow sometime soon after as their first child was born in Nitshill in 1856. The Connollys were also from Monaghan - Ematris parish, Corranewy Townland. Ann, Sarah's sister also married over in that part of Monaghan. The Connollys were Presbyterian - still are in fact.
The records I've found for Matthew and his family are C of I.
That's pretty much as far as I've got to date. I'd left this one til I got more on my Connollys as I thought a name like Campbell was going to be pretty impossible but apparently maybe not.
If you live in the area would be great to meet up with you :D
Ann :)
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Actually I also have a McGurk in my tree - a Bridget McGurk who married a Patrick Carroll somewhere in in Ireland is all I know and they also came to Glasgow. They too are my gt x 3 grandparents but whereas the Connolly/Campbell connection is my dad's fathers paternal side these are my dad's mother's maternal side. Have no idea tho where either is from in Ireland.
Ann ???
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Ann-I think I might be able to help you because I think we are looking at the same family of Campbells. I have in my possession a list of marriages births deaths of all these Campbells!!
I will look up one birth/marriage/death for you now. Which one do you want most?
Can you reply right away?
Thanks Maria
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Wow! That's great
I'd love Matthew and Jane's marriage as am hoping will tell me who their parents were
Ann :D
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Your great great great grandfather Matthew Campbell [Crowey] married Jane Campbell [Corvally] on the 19th November 1818 in Tyholland in Church if Ireland.
Maria
Hows that?
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That is pretty marvellous! Thanks so much!
So I now know he also had a brother called Robert. I've sent you a PM with my email address.
When you get a chance if you can let me know the names of the other siblings I may be able to locate where in Scotland and get us a bit further back
Ann :D
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Ok Ann -Will finish off for tonight. Just to clarify. My great great grandfather was Robert Campbell and I have no birth date for him at all at the moment because I am not sure of his Religion at birth. His first child was born in 1852-with that date it would rule him out of being your ggg's brother.
Get in touch tomorrow. I have no doubt however that they were closely related.
Small small world and I only joined to night.
Maria
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Thanks very much Maria!
Looking forward to speaking to you again.
Sleep well
Ann :D
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I have just found many of the names you mention and their records...........Until tomorrow.
Night
Maria
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Hi Ann-Matthew Campbell married Jane Campbell as I said in the19/11/1818.
Further search tells me he just might be myggg grandfather as well!!!
My research tells me that they had the following children:
Robert born 1821
Jane born 1823
Mary Jane born 1825
Prudence born 1827
Bella born 1831
James born 1833
Martha born 1835
Elizabeth born 1837
Tarleton born 1839
Elizabeth born 1841[did the first Elizebeth die?]
Matthew born 1844[/b]
Eleven children and alot of family out there!
Maria
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Hi Maria
I knew I probably didn't have the full list of children because there were gaps between some of them which suggested some had died. Interestingly my Sarah isn't on your list.
the other odd thing is I have a Matilda born in 1815 as well.
Did their marriage record give any father's names ?
be good if you could email me then I can send you what I have.
Wow! a new cousin - how exciting!
Ann :D
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Mmmmmm-Matilda would have been born out of Wedlock-so we are back to the drawing board. Perhaps there were two couples in the area named Matthew and Jane Campbell[she was Campbell before marriage] I think it is fair to say that cousins married cousins-even first cousins.
Before you visit-get in touch with someone who will let you actually see the old registers. Most of the time -we are told-not available or they have all gone to PRONI. This is because clergy cant be bothered. Their registers may have been copied and sent to PRONI but they should still be in the hands of the church minister or warden. Honestly-it is an uphill struggle to get the information which by law.
Will definately e-mail when something more personal comes along.
Any other search you want me to look up? I cant send this on as an attachment as its just a print out I have.
I am pretty sure now that there may have been two Matthews and two Janes.
I am still thinking that we are third cousins.
Maria
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Hi Maria
All arranged already am to see the church records when am in Ireland in a few weeks time. :D
Will also be going to PRONI before am in Monaghan area which will hopefully give me a bit of a head start before I visit the church in piecing it together I hope.
I'm assuming that Matthew's father possibly might be Robert - but that's just going by naming convention ?
Had a closer look at Griffiths last night and they definitely all lived in adjoining townlands so am assuming if not brothers definitely related in some way? Just have to work out how!
I have no copies of records for any of them apart from Sarah and have Ann's marriage cert. the rest of the info is a letter I got from Theo McMahon at Monaghan Genealogy Centre some years ago now. That's mainly why the PRONI and church visit - tho have other ones (non Campbell) need PRONI for. I have a few of the kids baptism details I got from the IHFH site.
Do you have any idea where in Scotland they hailed from?
Ann :D
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No I dont know where they came from in Scotland Ann. But I will find this out for you today if I can.
I would so love to see those Church records as well. Maybe we could meet up on the day you are being allowed access to them in Tyholland.
I live just under an hour's drive away so after 7 years researching-its only a short distance for me.
However-you clearly have done alot of research and this is your moment so I fully understand if this is not possible.
Maria
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Hi Maria
I don't think that's going to be possible am afraid as this has all been set up for me via a 3rd party who is meeting us there and is because he knows the church warden/curator.
My understanding is tho they will let people see things by appointment generally so am assuming if you contacted Tyholland church they can arrange something for you. I know the fee is 50 euros but by the sounds of things there are a lot of Campbells in those books so compared to a trip to the GRO, 50 Euros to have access to them all seems reasonable.
You're so lucky to be reasonably nearby - wish I was cos I only have limited time to go and look tho am sure we'll be back over next year as have family in Louth who we will be staying with for this part of our holiday. So perhaps if I run out of time to go through what I'm told are many books you could pick up from where I get up to?
Ann ;)
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No problem-if you can let me know who to contact myself-the money will not be an issue with me.
I have seen the church from outside and graveyard of course. A beautiful place and I think it might answer alot of my questions.....I would not be surprised if I know your contact but fully appreciate your situation.
Have a lovely time.
Maria
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Did you have any joy with place of origin in Scotland?
Ann ???
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Hi Maria
He met the church warden when when he went to take photos of the church and graveyard for me and another rootschatter. This was some time ago now but as you do they got chatting and he asked about access to the records. I've just not been able to do much about it til recently as I was looking for other ancestors in Fermanagh and Tyrone as well as other side of Co Monaghan. The Campbells were left because I thought others would be easier to find and time over there evaporates!
I don't have local phone book but he said he'd rung the church number. He's not in Co Monaghan so am assuming he got it via Directory Enquiries or 118 (whatever is called these days!). I can't get in touch with him at the moment cos he's on his hols and I'll not see him now til we're over there.
Ann :D
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Hi Maria
Did you manage to find out where in Scotland?
Ann ???
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Hi Maria
I'm assuming not. Not to worry perhaps something will turn up in the church records and can take it from there
A big thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far via posts or PMs! It has given me hope that perhaps Campbell wasn't as hard a name to research as I initially thought it might be.
Ann :D :D :D
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Hello
I wonder if you could help me please. I have a Mary Campbell born Monaghan possibly 1857 to 1863 [depending on which certificate you are looking at!] Puts her parents as Bridget McKenna and George Campbell [Doctor of Medicine] She came to NZ 1879 stating her age as 25 which we think is correct as it tallies with age at death. Perhaps stretched the truth at the time of marriage when she suddenly became younger! I cannot find her birth not can I find her parents marriage. There is a Patrick Campbell who married a Bridget Mckenna but no daughter Mary and all their children are younger. Any help at all would be appreciated. Mary was a Catholic.
Sandra
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hoping that ou are still active in this area. I am looking for Campbell in silverstream. namely a Dr George Campbell who died april 1873. According to our history a great grandmother Mary Campbell c. 1857 was the daughter of a Doctor George Campbell Monaghan. We have found the aforementioned Doctor in Silverstream but cannot find who he married [hopefully Bridget McKenna] of mention of daughter Mary. If the information Mary gave on her marriage cert is correct George would have been well in his sixties when she was born!
Can you be of any help here?
Regards
Sandra
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Not until tomorrow week when RC Church registers are due to come on line, free... You are before the period when Civil Registration came in effect for RC's!!
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Here's a link to your Campbell topic-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=652844.0