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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: mfjcase on Sunday 22 May 05 05:08 BST (UK)
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My great-grandfather, Michael Manning, was born around 1867 - his naturalization papers that name Galway as his place of birth also state he was born in 1872, but that was likely so he could claim he was a minor at the time of his emigration in 1889 and avoid paying a fee.
Michael was born to Patrick Manning and Mary Harney. The Manning surname could possibly be listed as Mannion. I have been unable to determine the names of Michael's siblings, if any. I received information that a Michael Mannion was married to a Mary Harney in Athenry, but I have nothing to confirm this. Given the relatively unusual name of Harney in that area, it could be a match.
Mary Barrett may have been from Galway, or possibly Roscommon (the Roscommon connection is speculation). Her parents were Thomas and Bridget Barrett (Bridget's maiden name was not listed on the only document listing her name). There are almost no records available on Mary - I can not locate even her marriage certificate for her marriage to Michael - this may be because Michael and Mary were married in Ireland before traveling to America. However, they arrived in Boston around 1891, the census indicates an 1895 marriage, and they had their first child in 1896.
According to oral history, Mary was illiterate and considered beneath Michael's family, but Michael married her against his family's wishes and was disowned. I assume this took place in Ireland, but I don't know why they would have left for America and waited 4 years to marry. In any event, this is a compelling story, and I'm frustrated that I have so little information about Mary and Michael. Thanks for anything you can do to help.
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After years of intermittent research, I have some new information:
Michael was born around 1867 in Galway, but I believe his birth was in or around Ballinasloe. Michael's parents, Patrick Mannion and Mary Harney, had at least 6 other children: Celia (or Cecelia, b. around 1867), Anne (b. 1868), Thomas (b. ~1870), Mary (b. ~1870), Katherine (b. 1875) and Elizabeth (b. 1877).
Celia married Laurence Manning (no direct relation - I think) in Boston and had Mary, Helen, and John. Mary married Patrick Griffin in Waltham, MA and had Mary, Joseph, George, Christina, and Olive. Katherine married Michael Devlin in Brookline, MA and moved to Waltham where they had 9 children, several of whom moved throughout the US (California and Montana). Katherine decided to become a citizen, which is how I concluded that she was my Michael's sister and that the family was from Ballinasloe. I'm sure that these siblings are related to my line as I've had DNA hits with people in Montana.
Michael Manning (born Mannion) left Galway around 1891 and married Mary Barrett in Waltham, MA before moving to Brookline. They had several children and I have multiple DNA matches among their families. Mary Barrett's parents were Thomas Barrett and Bridget Rush and she appears to have been born in Mount Bellew, Galway.
I'd like to track Michael and Mary's parents back another generation, but records are scarce. If any of this rings a bell for anyone, please let me know.
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Why has the father’s name changed from Patrick to Michael.
There was a Patrick and Mary in Galway at the correct time but I don’t see a Michael and Mary.
For example Anne Manion 1868 to Patrick and Mary Harney. Number 319
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03436/2261712.pdf
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Son Thomas born 5 February 1870 at Attymon-
#96
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03356/2230354.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/galway/kilconnell/killimordaly/cloonkeen/attimonmore-south/
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Why has the father’s name changed from Patrick to Michael.
There was a Patrick and Mary in Galway at the correct time but I don’t see a Michael and Mary.
For example Anne Manion 1868 to Patrick and Mary Harney. Number 319
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03436/2261712.pdf
Apologies, I mistyped (I corrected the post). Just about everyone in that line is a Michael or Patrick and I mixed them up while posting. My grandfather was Patrick Manning; my great-grandfather was Michael Manning, and my great-great grandfather was Patrick Mannion (Manning). Michael (ggf) was married to Mary Barrett in Massachusetts, and Patrick (2xggf) was married to Mary Harney.
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Thanks for the links - they confirm my records as noted in my second post of Anne and Thomas being Michael's siblings.
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So this is the baptism you believe is Michael
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632917#page/46/mode/1up
Right hand page born 1st Nov baptised 16th
I'm not seeing a civil cert for him.
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So this is the baptism you believe is Michael
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632917#page/46/mode/1up
Right hand page born 1st Nov baptised 16th
I'm not seeing a civil cert for him.
That's the one I found. Other documentation is all over the place: US censuses put his DOB in 1867, 1867, and 1872; marriage in MA puts YOB as 1867, and one census had his DOB in June (the US census was done in June, so they might have mixed it up), but his naturalization doc has Nov. 1, 1872 - while the day and month align, the year doesn't, but if he claimed to be younger when he arrived, he could waive the court fee, so I don't worry about the year as much and he may have claimed 1872 in the census to be consistent after citizenship. I think there's enough with the dates, names and location to conclude that's him.
I found a 1901 census with Patrick Mannion and Mary, with children Anne and Elizabeth. I have documentation that his other three sisters moved to the US, but not those two; however, their ages indicate birth years of 1878 and 1882, so that's off by a bit - but as indicated below, his parents should have been alive in 1901 (the census lists them as 80 and 60).
Michael purchased a life insurance policy in September 1902 that indicated he was 28 on his last birthday (indicating a YOB of 1873 if he was born in November, but again, he may have had an incentive to present himself younger than he was). He claimed both of his parents were still alive (father Patrick Mannion 75, mother Mary Harney, 63 - not far off from the census above). The application indicated that he had two brothers, both of whom died in infancy, and five sisters, all of whom were alive, despite a contradictory notation indicating that two sisters died in 1877 of typhus. I haven't been able to find anything to confirm those deaths.
Michael's wife was Mary Barrett (Mary's parents were Thomas Barrett and Bridget Rush); I found a birth record from Dec. 13, 1866 for Mary Barret born to Thomas Barrett and Bridget Rush in Galway; I also found a birth on Oct 17, 1874 for a possible sister named Catherine in Tuam, Maylough and another birth for a child named Bridget to the same parents. I found a passenger list from 1884 for a ship from Galway to Boston that included a Bridget Barrett, 35, Mary, 16 (indicating a YOB of 1868), Kate, 14 (possibly Catherine, but she should have been 10), as well as another Bridget, 12 and several other children - with no husband/father. This could be my Mary, but there's not much else to go on, other than it suggests that Mary's father Thomas must have died by 1884.
I also found a record for Thomas Barrett, born Nov. 3, 1833 in Rahoon, Galway to Thomas Barrett and Mary Keary, as well as a Bridget Rush, born Dec. 27, 1834, also in Rahoon to Thomas Rush and Mary Flaherty - no way to know if they're connected.
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It's better to stick to one family at a time
Trying to make sense of the Manions
We have
1 Michael's baptism Nov 1866 Ballinasloe parish https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632917#page/46/mode/1up
2 Celia nothing so far
3 Anne 1866 Patrick's a farmer can't figure out where the place name is but Loughrea district.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03436/2261712.pdf
4 Thomas 1870 Attimon Patrick a farmer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03356/2230354.pdf
5 Mary nothing so far
6 Catherine 1872 Patrick a labourer , back to that unknow place name
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03257/2193565.pdf
7 Elizabeth Patrick a labourer unknow place name
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03030/2110597.pdf
I wonder if this could be Anne and Elizabeth in 1911 and Ballynanulty could be the place name on most of the births
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Cloonkeen/Ballynanulty/462846/
Anne's marriage 1903
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10228/5722878.pdf
And Patrick and Mary with the girls in 1901
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Cloonkeen/Ballynanulty/1385818/
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The place name seems to be correct as the civil cert spelling on Patrick's death 1902 matches the birth certs
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05676/4599232.pdf
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Thanks - what does it say under the date? Ballin...? And between "old age" and "no medical attendant"? Does it say "some years"?
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Thanks - what does it say under the date? Ballin...? And between "old age" and "no medical attendant"? Does it say "some years"?
Yes it does.
Old age
Some years
No medical
attendant
Ballinanoulta [sic]
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This looks like Mary’s death despite saying married rather than widow. Number 309
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05519/4546927.pdf
Because Anne Keady is granted administration
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014919/005014919_00613.pdf
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Thanks. I didn't see that one but I found one for a Mary Mannion from 1902 at age 62; she was the widow of a farmer's wife, but died in Mount Bellow and Patt Mannion was the reporter - Patrick was a farmer and it's in the area, but I have no record of a son named Patt. Yours lists Lizzie as the reporter, the same as for Patrick a few years earlier, and they had a daughter Elizabeth, so that might be them (or at least that Mary and Patrick appear to be connected and the same from the 1901 census - it would be nice if she was reported to be a widow.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05676/4599245.pdf
I think I also found daughter Lizzie's death in 1927; couldn't find anything for Anne (do you think she married to a Keady?). Her location wasn't close to the others, but this is also 20+ years after her parents died so she may have moved for work.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1927/04970/4353292.pdf
EDIT - wanted to add that if Ann Keady is presumed to be Ann Mannion's married name, I found something for an Ann Keady whose father was Patrick Mannion, but her mother was Mary O'Loughlin, not Harney, so I'm not sure that's the right line.
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I posted the marriage I believe is them earlier and they are living in 1911 the same place as Patrick and Mary in 1901 and Elizabeth is living with them.
and I believe these are there deaths despite Anne's age been out a bit but that not unusual on death certs.
Anne 1951
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1951/04509/4186012.pdf
John 1955
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1955/04421/4153547.pdf
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On second thoughts the girls ages don't work in the census with the birth certs, need to look at this again.
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Finally got a chance to look at this again.
Anne birth 1868, 1901 birth 1876/77, 1911 birth 1882/83, marriage 1880/81, death 1869/1870
so her birth cert and death cert are close enough to be her but in between is a mess.
Elizabeth birth 1876, 1901 1880/81, 1911 1887/88
The two of them get younger with each Census.
Than you have the place name which on the certs appears to be Ballinanultha, Ballinanulta and on the 1901 Census Patrick is 80 and living in Ballinanulta and on his death cert in 1902 still 80 at Ballinanoulta
so despite the girls ages and the variations in spelling of the place name I think this the correct family.
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Anne's marriage 1903
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10228/5722878.pdf
Births of the four sons and a daughter in December 1911 (in 1911 census - Ballynanulty -reply #8).
Thomas Patrick 1904, Martin 1907, John 1908, Michael 1910 and daughter Mary in December 1911.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sm1/
Martin 1907 MMN transcribed as Maunin.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01705/1676093.pdf
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Finally got a chance to look at this again.
Anne birth 1868, 1901 birth 1876/77, 1911 birth 1882/83, marriage 1880/81, death 1869/1870
so her birth cert and death cert are close enough to be her but in between is a mess.
Elizabeth birth 1876, 1901 1880/81, 1911 1887/88
The two of them get younger with each Census.
Than you have the place name which on the certs appears to be Ballinanultha, Ballinanulta and on the 1901 Census Patrick is 80 and living in Ballinanulta and on his death cert in 1902 still 80 at Ballinanoulta
so despite the girls ages and the variations in spelling of the place name I think this the correct family.
I wish I could find something that ties Mary Harney to Anne and Elizabeth. I had not seen "Patt" with two t's for my line and it might have been used to differentiate from Patrick. I've also seen several Patrick/Patt Mannions married to Marys (not Harney) in the area around that timeframe. Ancestry has a tree with John Keady married to Anne Mannion whose parents were Patt and Mary O'Loughlin; I haven't found any records to confirm this (and I don't buy info on trees without documentation), but it is something that points in another direction. For what it's worth, I have also found no DNA links with anyone tied to the Keady line.
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so despite the girls ages and the variations in spelling of the place name I think this the correct family.
I wish I could find something that ties Mary Harney to Anne and Elizabeth. I had not seen "Patt" with two t's for my line and it might have been used to differentiate from Patrick. I've also seen several Patrick/Patt Mannions married to Marys (not Harney) in the area around that timeframe. Ancestry has a tree with John Keady married to Anne Mannion whose parents were Patt and Mary O'Loughlin; I haven't found any records to confirm this (and I don't buy info on trees without documentation), but it is something that points in another direction. For what it's worth, I have also found no DNA links with anyone tied to the Keady line.
This is Elizabeth born in October 1876 to Patrick Mannion and Mary Harney in Loughrea: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03030/2110597.pdf
This is another Elizabeth (Lizzie) Mannion, also born in October 1876 to Patt Mannion and Ann (wrong name) Donahoe in Loughrea:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03030/2110602.pdf
Here is her sister Anne, born in 1868: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03436/2261712.pdf
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Mary the mother or Mary the daughter?
There is a Mary Mannion on Ann's marriage as a witness.
Have you looked through the parish register, a lot of it is unreadable, I'm having a go but it's slow when your not sure of the year. She could even be a lot older than we think and born in Ballinasloe.
Where did you get Mary as one of the children?
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Mary the mother or Mary the daughter?
There is a Mary Mannion on Ann's marriage as a witness.
Have you looked through the parish register, a lot of it is unreadable, I'm having a go but it's slow when your not sure of the year. She could even be a lot older than we think and born in Ballinasloe.
Where did you get Mary as one of the children?
I was referring to Mary the mother (Harney); I'd like to find something that ties Ann or Elizabeth to her directly as there are a lot of Marys and a lot are married to Patrick Mannions so I can't tell which is mine. Just to confirm, forget about Mary Barrett (yet another Mary) - as noted earlier, that should be addressed separately; I'll start a separate thread eventually.
To recap: my great-grandfather was Michael Mannion/Manning, born around 1866/7 in the Ballinasloe area and he emigrated to the US around 1891. His parents were Patrick Mannion and Mary Harney. Among their children were Michael's siblings: 1) Cecelia/Celia (b. 1867), who moved to the US and married; 2) Katherine (b. 1875), who moved the US and married and indicated that Ballinasloe was her place of birth and her last residence in Ireland was Attymon, Galway; 3) Thomas (b.1870), who I believe died in infancy in Ireland; 4) Mary (b. 1870), who moved the the US and married; 5) Anne (b. 1868) and 6) Elizabeth (b. 1876) - neither of whom appear to have emigrated. In short, there is a Mary Harney (my 2x ggm) and her daughter Mary Mannion (my ggf's sister), but the younger Mary definitely moved to Massachusetts - I have marriage records identifying her parents and Michael and Mary Harney. Daughter Mary said she was 26 at her Massachusetts wedding in 1896, but I found a baptism record for 27 Mar 1866 at Killimore and Tiranascragh, Galway, to "Michl Mannion" and "Mary Horney." Based on emigration dates for my ggf (1891-4), Katherine (1894), Celia (1889), and Mary (1888, according to the 1900 census of someone that fits her profile), children not named Anne or Elizabeth were gone from Ireland by 1889-1894.
As I may have mentioned earlier, I found Michael Manning's (my ggf) insurance application: he filed the application in 1902 in Boston; he indicated that he had two brothers (both died young - I've only found one potential match - Thomas) and 5 sisters, and I've found 5 likely candidates. However, he also said he had two sisters that died in 1877 of typhus at ages 18 and 21 - I haven't found them. He also said his mother and father were still alive in 1902 at ages 75 and 63 (however, he also said his unnamed grandparents were 93, 93, 96, and 64 when they died, including a 24 year age gap for one pair - figures I find hard to believe).
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Agnes 1874 mothers surname is a bit dodgy.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03144/2153341.pdf
could this be Mary?
Need to check the other Mannion family in that area.
Poor little Agnes died
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020649/7245642.pdf
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Agnes 1874 mothers surname is a bit dodgy.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1874/03144/2153341.pdf
could this be Mary?
Need to check the other Mannion family in that area.
Poor little Agnes died
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020649/7245642.pdf
Thanks - the links don't work for some reason. And yes, it's kind of depressing to see some of the things the records reveal.
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Irish Genealogy is down at the moment, I was just about to have another trawl for Mary.
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Sorry, I just can't find Celia or Mary in Ireland.
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Sorry, I just can't find Celia or Mary in Ireland.
Me neither. Celia (or Cecilia) doesn't come up in Ireland, but she listed Mary Harney as her mother in her marriage doc, she was married in the same city as my ggf (Waltham, MA), and my ggf had daughters named Cecilia, Mary, and Anna.
Same with Mary - she lists Patrick and Mary Harney as her parents in her MA marriage records, though I found an Irish church record of a baptism on 27 Mar 1866 in Killimore and Tiranascragh, Galway, Ireland, Clonfert Diocese with Patrick Mannion and Mary "Horney" as parents.
I have a DNA hits with two of Mary's descendants. Also, one of Anne's children was named Cecilia, so I know they're related - just not exactly how.
Running a search on FamilySearch for just Mannion with Patrick and Mary Harney as parents, I found Anne, Thomas, Elizabeth, Michael, and C/Katherine.
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This one?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632945#page/51/mode/1up Left hand page
The father is Michael, the sponsor is Pat.
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This one?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632945#page/51/mode/1up Left hand page
The father is Michael, the sponsor is Pat.
Yes, I must have flipped the names in my records. Unless they mixed up the father with the sponsor, it might not be her, but the mother looks a lot like "Mary Harney."
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It is Mary Harney but that couple had a child Michael 28 April 1864, father Michael, right hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632945#page/47/mode/1up
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I wonder if it's the same Mary Harney with a different husband. Not sure how many Mary Harneys were married to Mannions in Galway (though I wouldn't be surprised it was a lot). I have records in other lines that suggest siblings from families married siblings from other families and a couple that look like they may have married siblings of their spouses after their spouse died. I'll have to dig in later.
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She can’t have had Mary in April 1866, been widowed, remarried and have Michael in Nov 1866.