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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: Milliebert on Sunday 10 June 12 12:30 BST (UK)
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Hi, this is my first post so forgive me if I don't completely follow the forum etiquette ~ there is a lot to take in!
I have hit a brick wall with my Great Grandfather, Albert Edward Cooper, b. 1899. I haven't ordered his birth certificate yet, and I'm not sure it will be of much use anyway as his marriage certificate has a line through father's name and occupation, and also I can't find a reference for it.
In 1901, aged 2, and 1911, aged 12, he is registered in Froxfield as the grandson of Stephen and Elizabeth Stroud, and two sons of theirs also live with them. He also has a sister (actually, she may not be his sister, it just says she is their granddaughter, so I assumed sister of Albert). I cannot find any information on any other children they may have had, who could be the parent of Albert. I also cannot find the sister, Bessie Cooper (b. 1893), but maybe she was born Elizabeth? Also I can't find Albert's birth, only someone in Highclere, Wiltshire, and I just have a feeling that's not him. I tried searching Bessie in Highclere and nothing.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. He married Bertha Chapman née Barnes in 1919 in Hungerford.
Thank you!
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Don't "assume" anything.
I suggest you order his birth certificate and see what it says. His birth certificate may also be vague about his father but it will identify his mother, for sure.
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I would order Bessie's birth certificate too if I was facing this puzzle.
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Thanks for replying :)
I'm sorry, I think I may have been a bit jumbled in my rambling. I can't actually find an entry on the birth registers for either Albert or Bessie, so I can't order their certificates.
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Also, my Uncle remembers his Granddad Albert very well, has told me lots about him. But he couldn't ever remember being told anything about his great grandparents, who would have been Alberts parents, and doesn't remember him having any family. Froxfield is such a tiny place, too, that it's quite odd not to know that kind of info.
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Take a look at freebmd. They have an Albert Edward Cooper registered 1899 Hungerford which is just a couple of miles from Froxfield. They also have Elizabeth 1893 Hungerford.
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hi,
Bear with me, its only a theory!
Well Stephen and Elizabeth had 8 children, two whom died.
The girls were Martha 1870, Alice 1875, Rose 1880
Can t find a marriage for a Martha, and Rose is too young to have children in 1893.
There is an entry for a maerriage on freebmd as follows
Alice Stroud Hungerford 2c (56) 02
Sep Q 1892
No spouse is given as presumably reference is hard to read.
Looking at actual images Sep Q 1892 for a Cooper , Hungerford comes up with
William Cooper ,Hungerford, 2c 502.
So possibly Alice and William could be the parents but you would need the birth certificates to be sure.
Best wishes
Cathy
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Craclyn, thank you! That's where I've been going wrong. Froxfield is Wiltshire but Hungerford is Berkshire, so they weren't coming up in my Wiltshire searches. I'll order birth certs for both of them.
Cathy - How did you find all that out? Thank you! But it still begs the question; why does Albert have no father on his marriage certificate? I suppose he could have found out William wasn't his biological father at some point. And, where were his parents for the census of 1901 and 1911?
Off to do some more looking, thank you both x
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Yes.. I backtracked the grandparents Stephen & Elizabeth Stroud through the census and found the girls Martha, Rose & Alice. In 1901 Martha is living with her parents with her daughter Vera (8m) and she is Martha Westall, wife of a serviceman - so that ruled her out and again, like you said Rose is too young, so I thought that would probably leave Alice..
Well done Cathy :)
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I did see the entry for Martha and Vera Westall. Which just confused me more for a time!
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Ahh.. Alice Cooper is a widow aged 26 in the 1901 how sad. She is working as a domestic servant in the household of William Baverstock - ref RG13/1925/F57 at 6 Sun Lane in Marlborough, Wiltshire
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Hence the fact the children live with their Grandparents?! That all makes so much sense!
Thank you.
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Showing my inexperience, but what does this: RG13/1925/F57 mean? I'd like to see the record but don't know where to look. Thank you!
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It means the registration district - RG13 - the page number - 1925 and the folio number - 57 which if you have a look at the 1901 census you will see from the top of the page
Administrative County - Wiltshire
Civil Parish - St Peters & St Pauls, Marlborough
Ecclestical Parish - Marlborough St Peter & St Paul
Municipal Borough - Marlborough
When the census was enumerated it would have had a district reference RG13
the page for this particular entry can be found on 1925
and if you have look at the bottom of the page
'Public Record Office Reference' - RG13/1925' is written as their reference.
I'm not absolutely certain about 'folio -57' but would pressume that it also refers to this particular entry or perhaps a series of entries on this particular page? sorry I'm not sure ...
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You are welcome. Remember that if you can't find what you expect then it often helps to widen the search, especially if you are close to county boundaries which may have moved over the years.
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Re birth certificates, although different counties, Froxfield is in Hungerford district.
Dave
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Yes.. I backtracked the grandparents Stephen & Elizabeth Stroud through the census and found the girls Martha, Rose & Alice. In 1901 Martha is living with her parents with her daughter Vera (8m) and she is Martha Westall, wife of a serviceman - so that ruled her out and again, like you said Rose is too young, so I thought that would probably leave Alice..
Well done Cathy :)
Forgive me, I am now confused!
Martha Westall, on the 1891 Census was a single woman, working as a servant. She didn't live with the Strouds at that time. So, if she was a single woman, she can't be their daughter, can she? Or her name would have been Stroud? So maybe there was no husband...
Also, I can't find a birth or death for William Cooper, Alice's maybe husband. I've spent a couple of days on this now, have ordered certificates but have to wait now!
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Let's try and work out the family shall we...
1901 Census - RG13/1125/F196 Froxfield, Hungerford
Stephen Stroud. 57. Head. Agri. Lab. b. Froxfield, Wilts
Elizabeth Stroud. 58. Wife. b. Enborne, Berks
Stephen Stroud. 18. Son. Cattleman on Farm. b. Froxfield, Wilts
Leonard Stroud. 16. Son. Under Carter on Farm. b. Froxfield, Wilts
Bessie Cooper. 8. Grand-daughter . b. Froxfield, Wilts
Albert Cooper 2. Grand-son b. Froxfield, Wilts
Martha Westall. 31. Daughter. Husband in Active Service. b. Froxfield, Wilts
Vera Westall. 8.months. Grand-daughter b. Froxfield, Wilts
Martha married (free bmd) at Hungerford to Morris Westall in Dec 1899. Vol. 2c Page 598
So that is a different Martha Westall that you have found in 1891 census working as a domestic servant
Hope this helps
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Doh. Thank you, I did indeed have the wrong woman. Thank you fr taking the time to help me. :)
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You're very welcome..