RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: glensmum on Thursday 07 June 12 08:29 BST (UK)
-
Hi All
I am looking for anything on this couple. It appears that they were married in Bagenalstown County Carlow on 2.9.1841.
Her maiden name was Butler and her parents were Richard Butler and Ellen Barron.She died in Ballarat Australia in 1892.
Perhaps his parents were John Hayes and Anne O'Connor.
That couple had a son Patrick who, I hope, is Timothy's brother.
Timothy and Anastasia are prominent in articles about the Eureka Stockade Rebellion of 1854.
Timothy and family came to Australia with 5 children in 1852 per the "Mobile" so presumably those children were born in Ireland.
Patrick says he was born in Ferns Wexford.
Thank you Regards Olive
-
Hi. What do you want to know about Anastasia and Timothy Hayes? I'm an academic researcher but I know some of their descendants. Would be keen to know if you have anything else on the Butler or Hayes families in Ireland.
-
Hello,
Family Search has this baptism (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJDQ-YX7) which looks as though they were in England also.
regards
heywood
-
If that is them, they are in West Bromwich in 1851
Timothy Hayes head 30 yrs Oil Merchant b County Carlow Ireland
Hannah wife 27 yrs b County Kilkenny Ireland
John son 8 yrs b Dublin
Edmund son yrs 6 b Kilkenny
William son 4 yrs b Wolverhampton Staffordshire
Hannah daughter 1 month b Sedgley, Staffs
Mary Hopper servant 23 yrs b Queens County Ireland
NB: the age of daughter Hannah is transcribed as 1 month but I think it more 1 yr ? months
It is good that they give county of birth in 1851- often it just says Ireland
From another thread, http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5qoln0trlrc04717or17jrg4f3&topic=603291.0 these names do tie in with the family.
-
That is them all right! 'Hannah' (mother and daughter) is Anastasia (mother and daughter).
-
Yes, that's what I thought. However, Olive is, I think, more interested in Patrick Hayes.
Let's hope she reads this anyway. :)
-
Hi clarealice and heywood
So pleased to see your responses.
Basically I need something to connect Timothy Hayes to Patrick Hayes. I have bits from Trove to link the two and now you say Timothy was an Oil Merchant as was Patrick. I am hopeful that that is also a significant clue. Patrick was in Lancashire before coming to Australia.
On his marriage in Lancashire he gives his birthplace as Ferns Wexford
and father as John Hayes,cooper.
Patrick Hayes was the patriarch of my sister's family but since finding the possible connection to Timothy I would like to know as much as possible about him too.Surely his family tree has been done by someone.
Looking to hear from you
Regards Olive
-
I know this is a late reply but i have only just found your post. I have a Mary Ann Hayes in my tree. She died in Melbourne and her death certificate says her parents are John Hayes and Anne O'Connor and her birthplace is Carlow. This seems to much of a coincidence! Where did you find Patrick Hayes with parents John Hayes and Anne O'Connor?
-
Hello Samarai
Great to hear from you.I have Patrick Hayes' two marriages. Both show his father as John and his second in Melbourne has Anne O'Connor as his mother. The only other clue is that Wexford is next door to Carlow. His second daughter from his second marriage was Mary Therese.
Could you tell me more about your Mary Hayes as to who she married etc. I have arrivals for Timothy but nothing concrete for Patrick but it was certainly into Melbourne with one son John.
-
Thank you for replying so quickly, after such a long time I was not expecting a reply.
My Mary Ann Hayes was born in Carlow about 1827 and married John Perkins in Liverpool in1845 and had 13 children. Her father's name is given as John Hayes and his occupation is "wheelwright". There appear to have been a lot of issues with that marriage and in 1873 she and 3 of her daughters (Lucy Helena, Elizabeth Teresa Josephine and Agnes ) emigrated to Melbourne, Australia leaving the surviving children and husband in Liverpool.In Melbourne, Mary Ann works as a needlewoman before marrying Thomas Bolger in 1887. Her marriage certificate says her parents are John Hayes and Anne O'Connor. John's occupation is "farmer" and on her death certificate his occupation is "millwright". I give more weight to the marriage certificate information as Mary was alive when that information was recorded.
My only concern is that none of Mary's children are named Patrick and Irish families seemed use family names a lot.
I hope there is a link as i have always wondered why Mary moved Melbourne on her own".
-
Thank you for your prompt reply.Patrick was born about 1817 He married Harriet Clarkson in Lancashire in 1841.They had possibly 5 children with only Edward John surviving.[note that I said just John earlier] He was registered in Preston Lancashire. Patrick's daughter Mary had a second name Theresa..
Patrick moved to Sydney sometime after 1863 possibly about 1874, where he died in 1887.
His children were Edward John married Margaret Horan, Kate married Harold Norrie, Mary Theresa, Harriet became a nun, Joseph Francis married Sarah Parker and Patrick Alfred.
The potential brother Timothy Hayes was at Ballarat for a good many years so I guess it's not impossible that they are siblings.
The children left behind could possibly be old enough to have begun their own lives. What were their names?
I want a link because nobody wants to "own" this family
-
______
I spent a bit of time looking up various sites trying to find some link between Mary Ann and Patrick and Timothy, reading about the Eureka Stockade and cannot really find anything linking all 3. For now I think I am going to add Patrick and Timothy as possible brothers and hope that some time down the years further information provides proof one way or the other.
What i did find was the following:
"Erected by P. HAYES, J.P., I The Oaks, St. Leonard's, Sydney, I in memory of his Father I JOHN HAYES, who died 18 April 1858 I aged 63 years. R.I.P."/ [An upright stone.]
http://home.people.net.au/~ousie/county_carlow_memorials_of_the_dead_JPMD_Ballyknockan.htm
This is a site from Ballyknockan Church so I'm guessing John Hayes lived somewhere near there.
Jenny
______
-
Well that is certainly my Patrick. What a find . Now if only we can find the children's names etc. Here Igo again. thank you
-
Hello,
You have written that Edward John was registered in Preston, but I see his birth in Widnes.
There are a couple of references (not much information sadly) to Patrick and his business online (and his bankruptcy) have you seen those?
regards
heywood
-
Thank you, I did see the bankruptcy references.I think from memory that he had another go at bankruptcy in Melbourne. [I don't have that newspaper clipping to hand]
Apologies Edward John's Birth extract says 1845 Prescot, Farnworth, County of Lancaster.
-
That's good re Edward. I didn't want you following the wrong person.
Do you have the family in England in 1861?
I wondered if the Bankruptcy was a new start and perhaps he/they went in 1850s.
-
Patrick and first wife Harriet Clarkson were on the 1851 census with Edward and Mary Teresa aged 2 years. I next found him and Edward only in Melbourne in April 1855 at the birth of his daughter Kate. He married Kate's mother, Jane Dicker, a widow, in August 1856.
I have not found them conclusively on any shipping.
Their second daughter Mary Theresa was born in 1857. Because this child carried the name of his other daughter and his Catholicism I would assume both Harriet and the child have died.I have no deaths to date.
I would say the move to Australia would be a new start.