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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cecilia on Saturday 21 May 05 20:08 BST (UK)
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Please can anyone help me get any more information on the Burtenshaw family who in 1871 were living in Henry Street, St. Pauls, Deptford, William 28, Lucy 30, Jane 10, Walter 5, Edward 4, George 2, William7.
Also the Wells family who in 1871 were living at Ashford Place, Camberwell, Joseph 23, Mary Ann 25, Louisa Marion 3, Mary Ann Susan 1. Any information would be gratefully received, as I am really not very good at this!! ::) ???
Thanks in anticipation
Celia
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Ok Cecilia.
I assume that the ages you give are their ages in 1871?
Where were the parents born?
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
You are right that was their ages in 1871, I am not too sure where their parents were born, but I believe the Wells family were from Margate, but I don't know when. I have no idea at all about the Burtenshaws, but the info I have from the other census suggests they were all in the Deptford area of London. Sorry I am such a dimwit, but all the family that could have helped are long dead, and they weren't into reminiscing much when they were alive!!
Thanks for your prompt reply too.
Cheers Celia
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Hi Celia
The 1871 (and any other) census will tell you where they were born (we will need to know this to find them) ie.
William BURTENSHAW 28 shoemaker b.Ashford
Lucy 30 b.Croydon Sry
Henry COVILLE/CORILLE? son in law 12 b.Croydon
Jane BURTENSHAW dau 10 b.Croydon
RG10/741 folio 108 page 28
Casalguidi
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And to get us started on the WELLSs .................
1871
Joseph WELLS 26 artist in fireworks b.Margate
Mary Ann 25 b.Fleet Street, City of London
RG10/723 folio 15 page 23
Casalguidi
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A possible ???
1861
Joseph WELLS servant 16 coal porter b.Margate in the household of James ASHBY coal dealer at 2 South Island Place, Lambeth, Surrey
Rg9/361 folio 59 page 33
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi
Yes Joseph was married to Marry Ann, and it was he who started the Joseph Wells firework company. He was my Great Grandfather. My Gt Grandfather could well have been a servant to a coal dealer, he then became a lighterman on the Thames before he stated the family business. My GT GT Grandfather was born in 1861, married a Susan Tucker in 1844. I think he was born in Margate too.
The Burtenshaws are more difficult for some reason, and I had thought with a strange name it might have been easier, mind you there have been some odd spellings of the name!!
Thanks for your help, it confirms a few things I was unsure about.
You are a star!
Cheers
Celia
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Hi Celia
I didn't manage to find the BURTENSHAWs in 1861. Looking at the 1871 they could have been in Croydon but I didn't see them - perhaps somebody else will have more luck.
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Hi Casalguidi,
In the 1871 census, they were living at 2, Henry Street, St. Pauls, Deptford. No trace of them before that, and no idea where they might have been. I know the spelling could have been wrong, it still is to this day!! Thanks anyway
Cheers
Celia
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re Joseph Wells family from Ashford Place, they'd moved to 84 Cold Blow Road Deptford by 1881. As well as older children Louisa and Mary Ann, another Joseph is listed as age 8 born Old Kent Road and Albert as age 3, born New Cross.
The wife Mary Ann's maiden name was Horton, and she was born in Fleet Street.
My great grandfather Harry Hoare Hillman married a later child, Mabel Kate, born 1882 died 1963 and other later children I believe were Alfred and Clara, and I've also been told that the child Mary Ann was known to family as Polly. Harry and Mabel Hillman moved to Southend in the early 1900's, eventually settling at 29 Quebec Avenue.
Update 3Feb2009 - starting to doubt the information I was given by family members about Alfred and Clara, can't find any trace, and can see possible confusion of Clara with Clara Burtenshaw - see below.
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Just in case it helps anyone, a couple of extra things.
First, Clara Burtenshaw, Dau of Edward Burtenshaw and his wife Louisa Marion (nee Wells), was staying with her grandparents Joseph and Mary Wells at 1 Garratt Lane, Wandsworth at the date of the 1891 census.
Second, this from an article about the Pain firework family, who were rivals to the Wells' - "During the 1700's various masters of fireworks came to Britain to satisfy the demand for spectacular displays by the Roayl Family, amongst them the Pain and Brock families. William Pain organised displays in the late 1700's in London's parks and gardens. William Pain in the early 19th century passed his skills on to his son James and nephew Joseph Wells".
ref:
http://www.rsc.org/ebooks/archive/free/BK9780854041275/BK9780854041275-00001.pdf
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Way after the earlier posts, but some updated information.
Firstly just noting I now have a known DNA link across to the Burtenshaw family. Going back through my grandfather Harry Joseph Hillman 1902-1989, to his mother Mabel Kate Wells born 16 March 1882 baptised All Saints Deptford 30 April 1882 died 1963 in Southend area (her husband Harry Hoare Hillman was a musician in the Southend area). She's the daughter of Joseph Richard Wells 1844 -1910 of the Wells firework family and Mary Ann Haughton who confusingly perhaps had several years between birth and baptism - born 10 December 1845 in Fleet Street, baptised 1st May 1853 at St Katherine Cree, Aldgate.
Mabel Kate's sister Louisa Marian Wells b. 1867 but baptised 1873 apparently marries Edward Burtenshaw in 1886 in St Saviour District. Whilst Edward's not my family line and I haven't looked closely, it appears he might be the son of William Henry Burtenshaw born around 1843 in Ashford, Kent and Lucy Covill born around 1841 in Croydon.
One of their sons Edward Albert Burtenshaw b. 1895 or thereabouts marries Pansy Hewitt in 1915 and my DNA match is one of his grandchildren.
A few other notes that may be interesting / useful to someone:
Joseph Richard Wells was the son of Joseph Wells 1818 - 1871 and Susan Matilda Catherine Tucker. Not my research, but I was given marriage date 25 February 1844 at St Mary, Lambeth. Joseph 1818 had previously married Elizabeth Ann Mortram, daughter of Zachariah Mortram (whose father - also Zachariah - ran firework displays at Vauxhall Pleasure Gardens under the name Signor Vicenzo de Mortram), and Elizabeth Ann Pain of the Pain fireworks family.
Joseph Richard was born in Margate but his siblings all in or around Southwark.
Joseph Richard's son Joseph Christopher 1873 - 1923 married into a different Wells family, marrying Rose Pritchitt Wells. Rose's nephew was William Thomas, better known as Bombardier Billy Wells, British & Commonwealth Heavyweight boxing champion and Rank 'Gong Man' (and actor). Rose's eldest sister was Maud Mary Wells, who was the mother of the earlier-mentioned Harry Hoare Hillman. And noting I also have a DNA match across to the Pritchitt family (Rose and Maud's mother being Clara Ann Pritchitt 1835 - 1888 and my DNA link being descended from Clara's sister Eliza Pritchitt 1827-1902)
Mary Ann Haughton was the daughter of Thomas Haughton from Sittingbourne, Kent (born about 1811) and Mary Ann Douglas born 9 December 1806 in Chatham, Kent and baptised 4 January 1807 in Gillingham Kent. Mary Ann Douglas had previously married William Walker (26 August 1831 St Luke, Old Charlton) and married Thomas in 1842 in Lewisham district.