RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: hannelore on Tuesday 05 June 12 16:43 BST (UK)
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I have been searching man years for trace of my uncle William Briggs who was separated from my father Albert Briggs after the death of their father in 1911.
I believe at some point he may have emigrated to either Australia or New Zealand but have not yet been successful in tracing him
I have come across these photos of members of the 207 Field Ambulance Royal Army Medical Corps and think that William is one of these men.
Apparently their H.Q during 1930/45 was on Kings Road in Manchester. If anyone recognizes any of these men please contact me.
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hi
have you any more info on william such as yr and place of birth , just looked inpassenger records and the first record after ww2 for a william briggs is 1950 to aus with a wife and son occ carpenter .
regards
trevor
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William was born in 1906 in Wolstanton Staffordshire England
He was the eldest son of Frederick and Florence Briggs nee Norris.
Sometime after 1911 when my grandfather died my grandmother moved to Manchester with her youngest son Frederick. My dad Albert born 1908 was sent to live in Ireland with one of my grandmother's sisters.
Most of my grandmothers family the Norris family had settled in the Greenheys,/ Hulme area of Manchester after leaving Dublin where my grandmother had been born
The attached photograph is of William and I have had the badge etc identified as that of the Royal Army Medical Corps
I am really really grateful for any help at all as I need to find some trace of William in memory of my dear father who had such a sad childhood
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hi
well bearing in mind his being in ww2 i,ve looked for a passenger record from 1945 to 1960 when the records finish and can,t see anything that looks like him and non going to aus or nz , meant to ask you what makes you think he emmigrated and especially to aus or nz ?.
and just to clarify are you saying that although your dad got left in ireland and fred went with his mother no one knows where william was brought up and by whom , sorry i,m confused help an old man out ;D .
regards
trevor
ps i do understand how you feel there can,t be many things worse than being deserted by your own mother no matter what the circumstances even if you are with relatives , every boy needs a mother !!
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Hi
Thank you for your interest
As you probably know parents in those days told their children very little and so our p[parents KNEW very little about their families.
Yes my grandmother did send my dad to Ireland but kept Frederick who was just a baby.
My dad like many other men was away fighting in WW2 and so I was about 9yrs old whenn he returned
I must have been about 12yrs old whe my dad even mentioned his older brother William When I asked where he lived my dad just said he had emigrated and that was that.
He did say however that William was working on a farm /ranch. You know as a child that is enough to suffice your curiosity
It very well could have been that William returned to England before the war as I do not know if he went abroad as a young man or even as a child.
The photograph I have shown of 207 Field Ambulance volunteers were given to me by the son of one of the
soldiers after he read an article I posted in the Manchester Evening News
Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to think that my dad said William had gone to work on either an "oxo" ranch or an "Horlicks " farm if there were such place
Having said that I have just come across in F.M.P passenger lists a William Briggs age 17yrs as a passenger on the Hobson Bay ship going to Brisbane from London November 1925
The age fits Williams. His occupation is a Dairy Utensil Worker?
I am not sure how to follow up this lead.
You are so right about a child being deserted. I believe my grandmother could not afford to keep her three sons. My dad was such a lovely man.
I get the feeling that my grandmother was quite hard and my father stowed away on a ship to come home when he was of working age.
He was the one who cared for his mother and never said a bad word about her
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just did a quick google search for oxo ranch and yes they were about and still are it seems in colorado usa horlicks didn,t throw up much and my first impression on reading your post was ranches in argentina where most corned beef came/comes from , off for another search speak soon and thanks very much for the update ;) bye for now
trevor
also found this passenger record dated 29 dec 1927 liverpool to new york age 23 occ farming
last address south lane denston and there,s a denstone in staffs !!
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How very kind of you to take so much trouble to help me.
It is strange what little bits you remember as a child what a pity we did not ask more questions of our parents.
But there again in my case both my parents knew very little in fact they both had quite troubled childhoods but in very different ways.
You have lifted my spirits as I felt as though my search would have to be put to bed.
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Could you please tell me how I can follow up the info regarding passenger lists.
Who would hold the originals.?
I am crossing my fingers
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and thank you for your kind thoughts but that,s what rootschat is all about helping others plus you wouldn,t believe the amount of useless info you pick up on the way ;D ;D and it,s a way of learning as well the web is the most amazing school room in the universe if used correctly , i,m so pleased our little meander down this path has made you feel better that alone makes it worthwhile but we best move on to the next chapter , i,m thinking we could do with seeing if there is an incoming passenger arrival for william prior to ww2 to try and back up one or other of the records so far , as an aside if you could find a death and get a cert for him it,s possible to apply for his service record but i,m sure you can,t get the record without one have a look here at www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html it will tell you all you need to know about applying for records there is a cost £30 and as you are not next of kin it will be a shorter version which i believe means that some personal info will be left out , but if it gives you where he has been living it,s a good start .
in answer to your question on where the passenger records are the national archives have the originals but what you see on FindMyPast is all there is .
best wishes
trevor
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I have enquired from the M.O.D regarding Williams records It was quite some time ago but I was more or less told that unless I had a death certificate and had proof that I was next of kin it was a definite no no.
Of course at that time I did not have the photographs which were given to me.
The gentleman who gave them to me was the son of one of these officers and he was almost sure that he had seen one photograph which had the name Briggs on. That was why the piece in the newspaper rang a with him.
He thought that the soldier wearing the spectacles was the same man who is on the original photo I have ie. William.
At first I thought not but have since changed my mind. I only hope that it is not just wishful thinking on my part. I sent a copy of my photo to Kew and they identified the badge as that of the R.A.M.C.
I will follow your advice and write to the M.O.D. again with all the info I have.
It is unbelievable how
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I have enquired from the M.O.D regarding Williams records It was quite some time ago but I was more or less told that unless I had a death certificate and had proof that I was next of kin it was a definite no no.
Of course at that time I did not have the photographs which were given to me.
The gentleman who gave them to me was the son of one of these officers and he was almost sure that he had seen one photograph which had the name Briggs on. That was why the piece in the newspaper rang a with him.
He thought that the soldier wearing the spectacles was the same man who is on the original photo I have ie. William.
At first I thought not but have since changed my mind. I only hope that it is not just wishful thinking on my part. I sent a copy of my photo to Kew and they identified the badge as that of the R.A.M.C.
I will follow your advice and write to the M.O.D. again with all the info I have.
I understand your willingness to help. To be honest I would do the same and indeed have.
This may amuse you
My grandfather was a German immigrant to this country in the early 1900s. None of his grandchildren were aware of this as his children were afraid to say anything about their Germanic roots
He had been interned at Knockaloe P.O.W Campafter the sinking of the Lusitania.
I will not bore you as it is along story however, I joined the Anglo German Family History Soc. and a lady who lived in Scicily wanted to know where her grandfather had lived in Fallowfield.
My husband and I found the house which had since been converted to a children's nursery.
We took a photo to send to her and when a young lady came out to ask us what we were doing We told her and showed her the letter which this lady had sent.
We came home quite satisfied with ourselves and were just about to have a cup of tea when there was a knock on the door.
On answering there were two police officers there. They asked what kind of a car we owned and had we been in the Fallowfield area a short while earlier.
They said that the lady who ran the nursery had reported that there had been a couple taking photographs and speeding off
I ask you Bonny and Clyde. Two pensioners speeding off in a V.W.Golf
We laugh about it now of course and would do the same again
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cor what a turn up here,s me thinking i,m helping a lovely old soul and all the time your a part time crim , [ well you and hubby ] just hope you pair haven,t got posters on post office walls as fugitives from justice ;D ;D ;D .
seriously as my lady friend keeps telling me don,t make a fuss of children as these days a lot of folk think your a paedophile when in all honesty it,s just a love of innocence in littleuns a very sad world we live in now i,m afraid and no end in sight .
well enough of that well deary where do we go from here i wonder we could do with another set of eyes i think cos we must be missing something but can,t see what .
best wishes
trevor
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well just had alook at passenger lists incoming to england but can,t make a match for william also been over all the posts again just in case something crops up and one thing i did mean to ask for clarification is in the post you made when you said that frederick went with his mum and your dad went to ireland but you make no mention of william now it,s probably just oversight but was nothing ever said as to what happened to william or what is your thoughts on where he may have gone is ir possible he went with another part of the family only he was only 5/6 yrs old at the time only it doesn,t make sense that 2 out of 3 children are placed but the other one wasn,t .
hope this makes sense
regards
trevor
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That IS the difficulty. WHERE DID he go to.
The 3 daughters of Frederick never heard him mentioned by their father.
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have you just got back from the darby and joan club i thought you,d deserted me ::).
well just another thought then if your dad was with relatives in ireland is there other relatives over there now who might have a clue as i see it at that age he was either with rellies or he,s in an orphanage and wouldn,t be emmigrating or whatever for at least another 10 yrs , my thought the other day was and it is now could he have been part of what became known as the british home children scheme where children were sent from orphanages to canada supposedly to give them a new start in life but in fact it was more a case that most were used as little more than slaves and were abused and treated terribly , sorry i,m running on .
basically have you anyone who you can contact to find any sort of info as to where he was
regards
trevor
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I have already exhausted the Ireland connetion as I recently found an Irish cousin wno is the granddaughter of the family my dad stayed with.
I have also found a relative in Stoke. Her grandmother and my grandfather were sister and brother.
I am definitely going to try the M.O.D. again.
Thank you for all your advice
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morning
when you get in touch with mod give them a sob story if you explain your need is more to know where william was living at the time he joined up that would be something and if you can give them proof you are who you say you are then hopefully some common sense will prevail although getting the whole record would be great just to get a pointer to his where abouts would be a boon .
i wish you well with this and hope that you will let us know how you get on .
my very best wishes to you .
trevor
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I will do just that Trevor
Thanks again
n
Florence