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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: DAVID WALTERS on Friday 01 June 12 20:14 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help please? ;D
William Charles Hinkin (born around 1892), died on the 15th September 1917 when his ship SS 756 Ravensworth was in a collision and sank off Belfast Lough. He was aged 25 and an assistant engineer, born in Mole (MOLD, Flintshire). He was living at 57, Walters Road, Llanelly. The ship was registered at Newcastle. I have lots of codes like: Page 246/Box 0070/BT334 service and Page 14/0071/0069. No idea what these mean. Would love to know a little of what happened, the ship (maybe a picture), and where (if found) the body of William is buried. Name on ship's role W C Hinkin.
Can anyone help in any area? Please.
David
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First off. The photo you have attached is a later vessel with the name RAVENSWORTH, probably 1960's.
I doubt very much you will find the information you are looking for online so I suggest you first of all visit the British National Archive and take a look at the ships logbook in piece BT99/3290 search via ships official number 88756. This will record details of his death and also may give and indication to where he is buried, if indeed he was.
Also contact Southampton City Archive to see if they have a Board of Trade Wreck Report. If there is a report it will give details of the collision and sinking.
There may also be a Board of Inquiry report, possibly written in Belfast but due to the war situation this may have been overlooked. A search of local newspapers may also shed some light.
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Hi David,
I have had a similar story to solve, and I found that the thing that gave me the most answers was to contact the nearest Local History Library, and ask them to search for Newspaper articles of the accident at the time.
http://www.ni-libraries.net/services/local-studies/belfast-central-library/
Good luck
Copperbeech5
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Thank you both for your helpful information.
Five died that day, with some even having markers and graves, with short write ups. I just thought I had missed something out there. Looks like some leg work and not a chair.
Thanks again. :)
David
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Two Naval casualties Oswald Peart and David Hanlan are on CWGC Hanlan lies in Ballantrae Peart no known grave.
For CWGC recognition Mercantile Marine deaths had to be attributable to enemy action so I guess he wasnt eligible( by Board Of Trade Rules) as it was deemed accidental.
George Trengrove from Swansea lies in the same grave as David Hanlan in Ballantrae
Ady
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Hi David,
You might still be able to stay in your chair.... I emailed the library that I needed, and they mailed back the info, I needed info from the Isle of Man, and I am in the Midlands!
Good luck,
Copperbeech5
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http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/2000982/TRENGOVE,%20GEORGE%20HENRY
This could have the making of a non commemorated sailor case?
If George Trengrove has CWGC status wonder why William Hinkin hasnt??
Maybe he was missed?
Theres three entries for him on maritime deaths 1917 (off Belfast lough)
Ady
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Dear All
Great reading your posts.
Here is a photo of the men that died that I downloaded. Why was William Charles Hinkin missed?
David
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It happened to a lot of lads for various reasons.
Im going to post a link to this thread on the Non Commemorated Board of the Great War Forum if the other lads are recognised then hopefully William will get CWGC status.Death Certs etc will all be needed but will see what happens
Mercantile Marine can have lots of technicalities for inclusion on CWGC.
Ady
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As stated by Ady Merchant Seamen were not automatically given war grave status, the criteria seems to be "killed as a result of direct enemy action".
The CWGC acknowledge a number of Merchant Seamen from both world wars have been awarded war grave status outside of their criteria and it was decided that these names should be left on the Debt of Honour so as not to cause their families further distress.
I have been involved with several attempts to commemorate men and women who died in similar circumstances as William Hicken only to be turned down by the CWGC.
I don't know the figures for the first world war but my understanding is there are over 6000 Merchant Navy personal who died in WW2 who remain uncomemerated. Apart from many more who are not even recorded is the DAS register and have no known grave but the sea.
Incidentally, members of the other three services where automatically given war grave status regardless of their cause of death. An injustice to this day and one that the MNA and other groups are still attempting to reverse. Sadly with little success.
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Many thanks again to one and all. More so with the knowledge you are passing on, all very interesting.
Any idea if I can find him on any crew lists, or the ship itself. In 1911 he was a general labourer. So had not spent that long as a seaman. His step father Evan Williams born 1860 was a sea man, maybe he helped him find the ship.
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Effectively no central MM central personal records were kept between 1857 and 1913. The ones for the period of the first world war have been destroyed.
If you look at my first post, the only way you can trace him is to look at BT99/3290 This piece should also contain the crew agreement, which should give you the name of his previous ship as well as some personal details. NOK. last address etc.
If you then find the official number of his previous ship, you can the search her crew agreements and hopefully find the ship he was on before that. So by a back tracking exercise it may be possible to find all of the vessels he served on. Its not easy and it's not cheap. Some crew agreements are at Kew, others at the Memorial University of Newfoundland and some including years ending in the figure 5 are at NMM Greenwich.
I checked the crew lists at FindMyPast but he is not mentioned there. However most crew lists pre 1913 are still awaiting transcription.
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Just a little on the ship
RAVENSWORTH official number 88756
Built by J Priestman and company at their Castletown Yard, Southwick, Sunderland.
Yard Number 8
Completed September 1883
Length 190ft Breadth 30.3ft 90HP engine
801grt 480nrt
Iron Hulled
Radio call sign JCGD
Owned in 1917 by Owen I Harries 4, Cambrian Place, Swansea
Registered Newcastle upon Tyne
Sunk in collision near Copeland Island
Registration papers in TNA ref BT110/394/31
Cannot find a photograph of her. Try Tyne and Wear Archives
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:) Thanks again seaweed
All building for me a little bit of history and background.