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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: jomcd967 on Friday 01 June 12 09:49 BST (UK)
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Not being religious at all, I skimmed through the pre typed text on the London & Surrey Marriage Bonds & Allegations that were recently put on Ancestry - and then - Dohh!! - I just realised that "we are holden and firmly bound to the right Reverend Father in God ...................by Divine Permission" had a different name each time! Just whose name is handwritten there? The brides father? The grooms father? What a goldmine of information that I didn't even realise was there.
And while I'm asking stupid questions, who is the "two hundred pounds of lawful money of England" paid to and why?? This seems like an enormous amount of money to pay at that time. Anyone who can fill me in so I can make best use of these records would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jo ???
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See below info from their website ;)
Wouldn't the £200 only be paid if the marriage wasn't able to take place due to legalities?
About London and Surrey, England, Marriage Bonds and Allegations, 1597-1921
This database contains marriage allegations and bonds created by individuals applying for marriage licenses in parishes in the Diocese of Winchester (Surrey) and the Diocese of London, England.
Historical Background
Before civil registration began in 1837, most people in England during the timespan of these records married by banns or by license, as required by law. The process of requesting a license included providing a written allegation stating a couple’s intent to marry and asserting that there were no legal obstacles to the marriage. From 1604 until 1823, the allegation was made sure by bond. Two witnesses, one of them typically the groom, swore to the bond, which would be forfeit if the claims of the allegation proved false and a legal impediment to the marriage, such as consanguinity, arose.
Marriage allegations and bonds often exist where licenses don’t because, while the license was given to a member of the wedding party to present to the officiant at the ceremony, the allegation stayed with the authority who issued it.
What Is in the Records
This database contains marriage allegations and bonds from parishes in the Diocese of Winchester (Surrey) and the Diocese of London. Marriage allegations typically listed the following details:
•groom (name, age, marital status, occupation, parish)
•bride (name, age, marital status, parish)
•parish where the marriage was to take place
Minors might list father, mother, or guardian. Ages sometimes indicated only that the party was 21 or older.
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A Bishop is addressed as Right Reverend - so?? :-\ :-\ The Right Reverend Father in God would be a Bishop I'm thinking.
Wiggy :)
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I'm not sure that it is the Bishop's name - the right reverend Benjamin/William/John,etc..... There seems to be too many different names written there. Some of the handwritten information states parish, age, etc, but this bit seems to be different???
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Ok, I just went page by page and the names were all the same. So silly me. excitement gone now...
Thanks though,
Jo :-[
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Bonds were a very common legal device. By entering into a bond a person would agree for instance that a statement was true, in this case that there was no "lawful let or impediment" to the proposed marriage, or if the marriage proved invalid in the eyes of God and the law. If this was not the case a penalty was due to the church official concerned. By the late 18th Century the penalty was £200. I would expect that they would not have to prove they had the money. According to various books some second Bondsman were usualy a legal fiction, "John Doe" having offered more collateral than anyone else
You can see examples of a Marriage Bond, Allegation, and Licence at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,438148.msg3016813.html#msg3016813
From the RootsChat Reference Library http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/reflib-lexicon.php?letter=M&lang=EN&input_form=
Marriage Allegations and Bonds
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,77843.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,11150.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,160057.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,160589.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,260369.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,308539.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,332994.0.html
Stan
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And while I'm asking stupid questions, who is the "two hundred pounds of lawful money of England" paid to and why?? This seems like an enormous amount of money to pay at that time. Anyone who can fill me in so I can make best use of these records would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jo ???
A Common/Ordinary Licence could be obtained from any bishop or archbishop, Chancellor or Surrogate, it was to this official that the bond would be paid. A Surrogate was a clergyman or other person appointed by a bishop as his deputy to grant a marriage licence.
Stan
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Bonds were a very common legal device. By entering into a bond a person would agree for instance that a statement was true [...] I would expect that they would not have to prove they had the money.
They certainly wouldn't need to have the money! My greatx3 grandfather put his name to a bond for the admistration fo a friend's mother's estate in the 1800s; he was due for £150 if he defaulted, but was receiving parish relief at the same time.
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I'm puzzled as to why my ancestors Marriage Bond is recorded under St Clement Danes Church and Parish, but in Palott's the marriage is registered under St George's Hanover Sq. with the groom noted as being of St Clement Danes - Should I assume that they stood at the Altar of St Georges?
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It would be recorded at both if bride & groom came from different parishes.
Annie
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I'm puzzled as to why my ancestors Marriage Bond is recorded under St Clement Danes Church and Parish, but in Palott's the marriage is registered under St George's Hanover Sq. with the groom noted as being of St Clement Danes - Should I assume that they stood at the Altar of St Georges?
You haven't said exactly what "is recorded under St Clement Danes Church and Parish" means.
Typically, the printed pro-forma Marriage Bond doesn't specify the church in which the couple intended to marry. Therefore an index entry for that Bond in the London and Surrey Marriage Bonds and Allegations collection on Ancestry will list the given parish of the first bondsman, who is usually the groom.
The intended church (or churches - sometimes there is an alternate) is usually listed on the Marriage Allegation, which precedes the creation of the Bond, and on the Licence which is issued after the Bond. Few licences survive, but many London and Westminster Allegations are included in the Ancestry collection.
The collection of Westminster Marriages on FindMyPast should cover St Clement Danes from 1558 and St George HS from 1725. These are images of original registers (+ I know of some Bishop's Transcripts duplicating PRs at St George) and from 1754 will give you original participant and witness signatures.
FindMyPast is a paid site. If you provide names and dates someone with FindMyPast access might check for you what records can be found before you spend any money. The Pallot's record indicates that it is at least on record at St George HS.
I would also see whether the Ancestry Bond and Allegation collection will cough up the matching Allegation. The indexing there is pretty dodgy, and can require some creative searching to find both records.
Ancestry has a small collection of Marriage Licences. Use the Card Catalogue to search for the keyword "Crisp" among the UK collections. You might be lucky and find your marriage.
Checking these resources should (depending on the date of the event) give you a solid picture of your ancestors' marriage.
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I know that around 1812 the Westminster Marriages collection has both original PRs and Bishop's Transcripts for St George. Make sure you get the original PR. The BT will have copies of the signatures but all are written in one hand.