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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: antiquesam on Thursday 31 May 12 19:06 BST (UK)
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While on holiday I took the opportunity to find some family graves in Dundee. I have discovered that my mother had a brother who I knew nothing about. In fact I was always told she was an only child. He apparently died in 1944 in Aden at the age of 22. Why on earth is that a family secret
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My question is how do you know it is her sibling and not someone simply with the same last name, or maybe a cousin?
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Easy. The gravestone named him as son of my grandfather and I checked on Findmypast that he was born confirmed by mother's maiden name. The only discrepancy was they married in August and he arrived in the 4th quarter, but hell there was a war on.
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Fair enough, it was quite often back in the day that if you got someone pregnant you got married, that is just how it is (his has happened with more than a few of my family).
As for why, Maybe it was always a touchy subject. There is unlimited speculation that could go on so I am not going to try. Ask some people that may have known him.
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He apparently died in 1944 in Aden at the age of 22. Why on earth is that a family secret
Maybe not exactly a secret, more a case of unresolved grief.
My grandmother's brother was killed in WW1 in his teens when Grandma was 12. Their parents could never accept his death, partly because his body was not recovered, although his name is on a battlefield memorial in France. Obviously there was no bereavement counselling for the families back then.
Your grandparents in 1944 would also have to deal with their loss in their own way. Many families believed, rightly or wrongly, that the pain would fade away if it wasn't spoken of, almost as if the lost son had never existed.
Carol
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Thank you Arrakchrome, but I will have to consult a spiritualist, perhaps you know of one?
the strange thing is they married in 1917 and went to Calcutta in 1919, without the child, as far as I can tell, but the mother returned to Dundee to have another child (my mother) in 1926. She left her in the UK for 5 years before taking her out to India.
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That is a puzzler. In regards to the parents leaving children, similarly my grandfather and sister were often left whilst both mother and father travelled for work. Even when they were in the main 'home' city (Birmingham) we have postcards sent to each other saying Happy Birthday/ Christmas/New Yr so it seems they weren't together at those times either, although postcards were the equivalent of texts, they are for separate addresses. We do know my grandfather was mainly raised by a nanny.
Perhaps your mother/uncle were left behind for work reasons? I know my grandfather rarely spoke of his time as a child, looking back it must have been so hard being separated from family, yet strangley his younger brother appeared to have been 'favourite' as it were to a point as he often travelled with his mother to Germany and attended school there.
Another similarity we have is the 'secret' of a family member. My great grandfather disappears from the family for 20 odd years and only appears when he died in 1942. He was of 'no fixed abode' and no one spoke of him- yet when his wife died in 1946 she was buired with him and the gravestone enscribed 'beloved wife of the above' sadly I don't think I'll ever know why he was 'kicked out' the family, there are rumours, but no one left to confirm or deny them.
I hope you find some answers, but yes it maybe the family couldn't cope wit the early death so rather than dwell or go through the loss, they tried to ignore it.
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If he died in Aden, this might be where he is buried. Its the British cemetery there ... taken in 1966, so the photo has colour changed a bit since then !
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Maybe he was a bad egg? :-\
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If he died in Aden 1944 was he serving navy/army? Have you tried to find a death cert / forces records /overseas death - it may give a clue as to where he'd been all that time
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While on holiday I took the opportunity to find some family graves in Dundee. I have discovered that my mother had a brother who I knew nothing about. In fact I was always told she was an only child. He apparently died in 1944 in Aden at the age of 22. Why on earth is that a family secret
I think Aden was a British base during WW2, so maybe there were circumstances surrounding his death that they couldn't/wouldn't discuss.
However, it might not be that it was actively a family secret (i.e. conciously hiding it). Maybe they just didn't discuss him publicly ("out of sight, out of mind" type of thing).
When I started doing my tree, I was told my paternal g-father was one of five, but it turns out one of those was a twin (making six) and one of the twins died young. My dad was stunned.
Also, my OH's father knew he had a half-sister (from his father's first marriage), but we found another - a half-brother - who at first we assumed must have died young, as no-one knew about him. Turned out he had been sent to live with a maternal aunt when OH's g-father's first wife died and stayed in that area, living in to his mid-60's with kids of his own!!
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You could try a search of the War Graves Commission website to find if he was serving in the armed forces when he died, and which branch of the services.
Martin
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Thank you for the picture Lydart. I did a quick check on Findmypast for a forces find but I am on holiday at the moment and relying on a dongle which works only occasionally. I will try when I get home.
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He apparently died in 1944 in Aden at the age of 22.
they married in August and he arrived in the 4th quarter, but hell there was a war on.
they married in 1917 and went to Calcutta in 1919, without the child, as far as I can tell, but the mother returned to Dundee to have another child (my mother) in 1926.
Bit confused here - if he died in 1944 aged 22 then surely he was born c1922, yet your other comments suggest he was born during WWI. ???
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Sorry I can understand your confusion, the year of death was 1940, i got carried away with my left digit.
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Sorry I can understand your confusion, the year of death was 1940, i got carried away with my left digit.
Ooer missus ;D
Thanks! confusion resolved.
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Don't know if it's relevant but this link may be of interest ... shows troop action in Aden area in 40s
http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-the-desert/war-in-the-desert-index-1940.htm
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Thank you Baggygenes I have saved that page for when I get closer to this conundrum.
Although leaving children behind must have been hard it appears to have been the norm in the Calcutta Jute Mill Community where wives were sent home to have children ,so that they were born in the UK and the children left with family as the climate was considered too hard for a very young child. They were sent out at about the age of 9 or 10. What I cannot see is young mother deserting her first child, presumably to some relative and going off to a strange new life and not neither her or his sister mentioning him.
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My mother-in-law was an abandoned when the parents went abroad baby - went to an Aunt until old enough for boarding school. The parents came back now and then and had more children which went back to Africa with them .. but the MIL didn't see her parents again until she was late teens so didn't really know her siblings (or her parents come to that) so its not unheard of ...
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Hi,
would it be of any help to you to send for his service records.
If your mother is no longer alive you would be his next of kin.
http://veterans-uk.info/sevice_records/army.html
Marysma
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Good idea I'll try, although I could find nothing on Findmypast, but you never know.
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http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/Personnel/ServiceRecords/MakingARequestForInformationHeldOnThePersonnelRecordsOfDeceasedServicePersonnel.htm
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Tried the War Graves Commission and the Memorials with no results, I suppose he could have been Merchant Navy.
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might be worth dropping email to cwgc
http://www.cwgc.org/about-us/contact-us.aspx
and ask about people who died in Aden/Yemen
There were airforce bases there and the navy were stationed around there so he might not necessarily be army.
What was his name .. I've just skimmed through past posts and either I can't see it or nobody has asked ??
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He was David Malcolm Scrimgeour born Gateshead born the 4th quarter of 1917. i haven't got a birth cert. yet.
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Theres a death in the MARITIME BMD REGISTER
SCRIMGEOUR March 1940 Ships name British Architect series BT334 Box 0095
(no initial given but theres another entry for a D A same date/ship and in Overseas deaths its David A age 21 - so can't be sure its him ... lol optimistically the David is right though)
GRO Deaths Overseas is:
Name: SCRIMGEOUR, David A
Vessel : British Architect
Country: At sea
Age at death: 21
Year: 1940
Page: 33 Record source: GRO Marine Death Indices (1903 to 1965)
The British Architect was owned by British Tanker Company - having though oh that would make him merchant navy or working for oil company (and going to that area would make sense) I just read that in 1939 The Royal Navy commissioned all 93 ships of the British Tanker Company
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Someone called David has your David on a tree on GenesReunited. Might be worth making contact?
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If he was Merchant Navy, then he wouldn't qualify for CWGC commemoration unless his death was caused directly by enemy action.
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You may well have something here Baggygenes. I have him dying on 26/2/1940 and of course I have David Malcolm Scrimgeour, but that is close. My problem at the moment is I am still on holiday and am travelling in a motorhome relying on a dongle which works only occasionally.
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I have tried to view the match on Genes Reunited but it shows no matches when I click on it. They seem to do this a lot since the trees changed.
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it is an awfully big coinkydink if it isn't him
.. maybe between reading his service record to get info and entering it the m got misread/mis entered :-\
might be worth ordering the cert and seeing what other info is on it if any
ooh lucky you .. have lovely travels :)