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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: toniguzzi on Friday 25 May 12 10:20 BST (UK)

Title: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Friday 25 May 12 10:20 BST (UK)
hi

hoping to find a lead on a Matthew Whitfield ,b 1823 ive found 2 records
he married an Isabella !, and shows born locations as alendall Yorshire !!!! cannot find any thing like this or a bit more weird B House Harrogate = possibly the registration office Bilton house , park road (then ) it is now of births etc
he moved to Crook in wear valley

but i was hoping to find out who isabella was and any previous on Matthew

any help appreciated
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: JJen on Friday 25 May 12 10:59 BST (UK)
Hi,

Do you have Matthew on the 1851 census living with his mother Eleanor? There is an Isabella included in the family but she is recorded as daughter ???

HO107; Piece: 2389; Folio: 437; Page: 3

Could this be the Mathew you are looking for?

JJ
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 25 May 12 11:05 BST (UK)
Could the place of birth be Allendale in Northumberland?

If you go to the GenUKI page for Allendale (http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Allendale/index.html), there is a link to:
The Whitfields of Allendale!
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Friday 25 May 12 11:45 BST (UK)
hi jjen

no dosent sound like him !! i cant understand why you would use a registry office in harrogate as a place of birth

and KGarrad

wish it was allendale in northumberland but im pretty sure its Yorks, harrogate area ive seen a coppy of 2 census that confirm Yorks
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 25 May 12 12:06 BST (UK)
The modern Harrogate combined the towns of Low Harrogate (in Pannal parish) and High Harrogate (Knaresborough parish).

Checking GenUKI's "Where is it in Yorkshire", the following comes up:

Beckwith House, Pannal

More likely, I would suggest, than a Register Office? ;D
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Friday 25 May 12 13:32 BST (UK)
confusing

i did see a B.house harrogate on a record but cant find it now , but have found this

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZ7-18N

may help if anyone can see the original record
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: suzard on Saturday 26 May 12 13:56 BST (UK)
hi

hoping to find a lead on a Matthew Whitfield ,b 1823 ive found 2 records
he married an Isabella !, and shows born locations as alendall Yorshire !!!! cannot find any thing like this or a bit more weird B House Harrogate = possibly the registration office Bilton house , park road (then ) it is now of births etc
he moved to Crook in wear valley

but i was hoping to find out who isabella was and any previous on Matthew

any help appreciated

I think you may have found "Alendall" on 1871 Census - which is very mistranscribed
I'll post the 3 census which look like Him

1861
Sunny Side Durham
Matthew Whitfield head M 38 Coal Miner B.House Yorks
Isabellwife 36 Northumberland
Elizabeth daughter 9 scholar Tow Lane Durham
Susann daughter 7 scholar Bun??y Hill Durham
John son 5 Colliery Dikes Northumberland
RG9 3715 47 16

1871
Ferry Hill Durham
Matthew Whitfield Head M 48 coal miner Allendale Yks
Isabella wife 47 Hatton lane Northumberland
John son 15 coal miner Dy?on Northumberland
Arthur Ward Lodger 20 (crossed through)
Isabella Whitfield daughter 9 scholar Sunnyside Durham
John Ward Boarder U 23 lab Ferry Hill Durham
RG10 4911 44 25

1881
Quarry House Cottages Lanchester Durham
Matthew Whitfield 58 coal miner Bilton (crossed through) Yorks
Isabel wife 57 Nothumberland
John Thomas Barker grandson 12 Kelloe Durham
Isabel Barker granddaughter 10 Kelloe Durham
James Barker grandson Kelloe Durham
RG11 4949 96 15

May help with the research

I cannot find any connection with Harrogate?????

Suz
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Tuesday 29 May 12 11:54 BST (UK)
hi Suz

thanks for help again
ive got these records but im stuck its this b.house  or Bilton in yorkshire that i can't
find anywhere the only thing is harrogate records house which is Bilton House !!!!!

very confusing i dont think the Geordie census takers could understand a yorkshireman LOL

thanks jjen i do have 1851 record

Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 29 May 12 12:08 BST (UK)
I think you have to get the idea of the register office out of your head! ;D

The column on the census asked for "Where Born", and the enumerators were instructed to put a town or village, county, or country.
I have never seen a house name mentioned on any census.

And the 1881 census doesn't say Bilton!
It's the same place of birth as grandson John Thomas (Kelloe?) And, as Suzard says, it's been crossed out.
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: Sandymc47 on Tuesday 29 May 12 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi there

There is a Bilton,  just over a mile from Harrogate, which also includes
Bilton Dene, and Bilton Hall in the same area. If its crossed out on the
census that means he wasn't born there.   
Phonetically Alendall with an accent is quite possibly Allendale.
You have to give some flexibility with the census due to the fact
they had heavy accents in those days and also most people
could not correct the spelling as they could not read or write.
 ???

regards
Sandymc
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 29 May 12 16:06 BST (UK)
Hi there


  
Phonetically Alendall with an accent is quite possibly Allendale.
You have to give some flexibility with the census due to the fact
they had heavy accents in those days and also most people
could not correct the spelling as they could not read or write.
 ???

regards
Sandymc

1871 census p.o.b.on image is Allendale - it is only the transcription which is Allendall


Suz
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: Sandymc47 on Tuesday 29 May 12 16:40 BST (UK)
Ya i sed t'at it is. Yorkshire is a viking speel cut down as ye spek
't and only Yorkies na wat u sayin'
Try getting Allendale, Northumberland owt t'at laugh

regards Sandymc 
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 29 May 12 16:49 BST (UK)
My point was that on the image it was written as "Allendale" so it is nothing to do with misunderstanding
We should always look at the image and from that transcribe what we read ( that also saves us from breaking copyright rules)
The image has been transcribed as "Allendall" - I believe the transcriptions were done electronically  ???

Suz
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 29 May 12 17:02 BST (UK)
There is a Bilton,  just over a mile from Harrogate, which also includes
Bilton Dene, and Bilton Hall in the same area. If its crossed out on the
census that means he wasn't born there.   

It's not even Bilton/Belton, because it begins with "K"! ;D

See snippet - 1st entry is Matthew; 3rd line is grandson John Thomas.
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Wednesday 30 May 12 09:33 BST (UK)
hi KGarrad

if you look at the 3 census copies
1861 B.House, Yorshire
1871 Allendall , Yorkshire
1881 Bilton , yorkshire

the one your looking at looks like he put one of his kids as kellah (in his line perhaps reason it was crossed out), pronunciation , spelt Kelloe, about 5mile from Sumby hill Crook where Susan eleanor his daugter was born in 1853.
i have hime residence in ferrhilly in 1871 about a mile from Kelloe
but it still does not explain the reference on the census to yorks/ yorkshire & Bilton

i cannot track him any firther back  ::)
i wish it was allendale im sure it would be much easier and make more sense.

even worse hi wife isabella Davison comes from a tiny hamlet near berwick upon tweed hatton law, lowick
and i cant find her parents .

sandymc47 comments are being looked at but once again lots of dead ends
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 30 May 12 09:35 BST (UK)
the one your looking at looks like he put one of his kids as kellah (in his line perhaps reason it was crossed out), pronunciation , spelt Kelloe, about 5mile from Sumby hill Crook where Susan eleanor his daugter was born in 1853.

"He"  didn't put anything!
What you are seeing is what the enumerator wrote down, and that is based on what he thought he heard!! ;D
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Wednesday 04 July 12 09:43 BST (UK)
ok hope i solved my whitfield side

as i couldnt find a bilton etc ... i looked further and found
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SBPQ-J3Y
which nicely laid out a whitfield family in arkengarthdale

could Arkengarthdale or Arkendale sound like Allendale to a geordie when spoken to by a yorkshireman

there is a small chance that bilton could be milton a small village nr there , but i followed this family to
Brough under stainmore , then when father died joshua whitfield d 1844 in brough , the family moved to
leadgate/ medomsley area and seems exteneded family as well the Beckwith and Lightburn !!!
this fell in nicely with marriage of Matthew to isabella Davison in Medomsley in 1845

id still like to take whitfield line further my last link is john whitfield b about 1745, married 1769 to Margaret Raw possibly in Arkengarthdale

Also i wonder why the whole family moved to Brough for a few years , I did notice a long line of whitfield in Brough going back a long way but couldnt link them

Any help appreciated
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: Gragareth on Thursday 26 July 12 21:15 BST (UK)
My suggestion may mislead you so be careful !     There is a village called
Arkendale not far from Harrogate.       
 Gragareth.
Title: Re: whitfield in harrogate
Post by: toniguzzi on Monday 30 July 12 10:36 BST (UK)
hi Gragareth

ive managed to confirm the line by locating borthers and sisters all in the same place around medomsley / leadgate all match ok so im 100% this is my family
and traced them all ok the other brothers / sisters have a mixture of Arkengarthdale and Arkendale on census  entries
so i think i can close my Whitfield heritage off back to John b 1745 Arkengarthdale married to Margaret Raw b1744
cant seem to get any further though