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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: schio on Monday 21 May 12 02:01 BST (UK)

Title: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: schio on Monday 21 May 12 02:01 BST (UK)
Emma Caroline Marriner (nee Lange) born 1893 Apollo Bay Vic married Horace Marriner in 1919.  A child was born in the same year that died.  She left husband and I found her in the 1919 census living in Moor Street, Fitzroy Melb.  I also found RALPH POLASKI living at the same address the man she apparently fled with.   I can find no trace of her again.  I would love to know what happened to her.   I do not believe she stayed with Polaski.  Have looked for a death under Lange, Marriner and Polaski.  Nothing!   

Can anyone offer any assistance.
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: Billyblue on Monday 21 May 12 02:26 BST (UK)
Where did you look for her death?  Only in Vic, or elsewhere?

Did you also look for a second marriage?

Have you tried in any of the names, in TROVE?

You say she married Horace Marriner in 1919, had a child, and left him all in the same year?
1919 census?  or do you mean electoral roll?

Dawn M
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Monday 21 May 12 03:27 BST (UK)
I don't know where you got your information from but she married in 1916 & a child was born & died the same year.

Marriage:

MARRINER Horace Victor Chas m. LANG Emma Caroline 1916 #4638

Birth:

MARRINER Horace Victor Chas b. 1916 APOLLO BAY #16942
Father: Horace Victor Chas
Mother: Emma Caroline LANG

Death:

MARRINER Horace Victor Chas d. 1916  Apollo B #8283
Father: Marriner Horace Victor Chas
Mother: Emma Carol LANG

Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Monday 21 May 12 03:37 BST (UK)
Birth:

LANG Emma Carol b. 1893 KRAM #5191
Father: John Frederick
Mother: Matilda LETGE

Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: schio on Monday 21 May 12 05:44 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for your input.  I did try other states other than vic.  I did lk for another marriage with no luck.  My apologies 1916 is correct not 1919.  The electrol roll for 1919 gave me my last clue.  Nil in Trove
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: wivenhoe on Monday 21 May 12 08:54 BST (UK)


WW1 enlistment for Horace Victor Charles MARRINER

28yrs 10mths at August 1916, apiarist, enlisted Melbourne.

NOK wife Emma, Apollo Bay, changed to PO Geelong.

Returned to Australia 22 Aug 1919.
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: schio on Monday 21 May 12 11:48 BST (UK)
Thanks Wivenhoe this is a vital bit of info.  I had not considered that her husband was in WW1.  Perhaps he returned in 1919 to find her gone with another.  Apparently Horace spent the rest of his life as a recluse.  How very sad.
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Monday 21 May 12 12:08 BST (UK)
His WWI file is available here:

http://mappingouranzacs.naa.gov.au/details-permalink.aspx?barcode_no=8039040
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: Dundee on Monday 21 May 12 12:49 BST (UK)
I would have set my bees onto them  >:(

This is an interesting looking death, though she was considerably younger than your Emma...

Emma Caroline SIMONSEN
Died: Footscray, Victoria, 1956
Age: 54
Father:    Frederick LONG
# 4425

I can't find her on electoral rolls.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: ennael on Tuesday 22 May 12 02:26 BST (UK)
There is a Ralph POLASKI in Tasmania.
Few entires in TROVE.

Ralph POLASKIS' Naturalisation documne tis available for viewing online at:

www.naa.gov.au

Leanne
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: schio on Tuesday 22 May 12 08:13 BST (UK)
Debra you are on the same track as me.  I have that death in my MAYBE file for Emma.  The age is out but the father was Frederick Lang.  I may have to invest in that death one day soon. 

Merlin, I appreciate the link to the file.  You really helped with that hint.

Leanne.  I found out that Ralph Polaski and Emma did not stay together.  He did got to Tasmania and hook up with another woman.  I looked for Emma's death in Tassie but not luck.  Thanks for your assistance, much appreciated.
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 22 May 12 10:42 BST (UK)



How many Ralph Polaskis are there?

Ralph POLASKI on the naturalistaion papers is b. 1855 Warsaw


Ralph POLASKI in Tasmania would seem to be b. ~1911
Mercury 9 Mar 1936  motor accident Ralph Polaski 25 yrs of Margate

Electoral Roll 1936
Ralph POLASKI, Ada Amelia POLASKI, Margate

Mercury 19 Apr 1945
Civil case...Ada Amelia Polaski wife of Ralph Polaski, Lune River.

Mercury 26 Mar 1947
APL delegates at Launceston conference...Ralph Polaski..Lune River   (there is a photo).

Ralph Polaski in Tasmania is not the man applying for naturalisation...that man is too old?.

He is also not the man at the same address as  Emma Caroline Marriner 1919 Fitzroy...too young?
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: schio on Tuesday 22 May 12 11:09 BST (UK)
Wivenhoe.  There is a father and son with the same name, just to confuse the whole situation.  Not 100% which one Emma ran off with, no one seems to know.
Thanks for all your efforts
Title: Re: DISAPPEARANCE OF EMMA CAROLINE MARRINER NEE LANG
Post by: schio on Tuesday 22 May 12 11:20 BST (UK)
Debra.  Guess what I have found Emma Caroline thanks to your prompting again on that Simonsen clue.  I just order the death certificate.  I was still not sure it was her until I saw that she was born in Apollo Bay near the end of the document.  Bingo that's it.  Her age is wrong by 10 years.  The father should be Frederick Lange not Long but that is the records for you.  Thanks
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: thommo_99 on Tuesday 06 January 15 03:21 GMT (UK)
The Ralph Polaski you are talking about is Ralph SNR as the other Ralph (his son) was too young to vote. Also Ralph SNR was blind at the time so I don't think there was any running away together.
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 January 15 04:55 GMT (UK)
Hi thommo_99 :)

Welcome to rootschat :)

It is possible Ralph Jnr born 1901 enrolled to vote.  I was not asked for any ID when I enrolled to vote in Victoria and that was over 50 years ago.

POLASKI Ralph
Father Ralph  Mother Rebecca SAUNDERS
At Barramunga  1901  Reg#666

Emma Caroline MARRINER was living in Apollo Bay when her husband Horace enlisted in WW1.  Her address then changed to Geelong.

Electoral enrolments of people residing at the same address.

Australian Electoral Roll
1919
MARRINER Emma Caroline  9 Moor Street, Fitzroy  HD
POLASKI Ralph  9 Moor Street, Fitzroy  Labourer

Small terrace house....2nd one to the right of the lane way.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01eh4/

Ralph Jnr's age also incorrect in this news snip - he was born 1901 not 1911.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/cite/7463966/91803046

1948 Ralph is stating he is no longer responsible for his wife's debts
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article26447905

Cando
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 January 15 09:27 GMT (UK)
It appears she changed her name but kept her initials....perhaps she didn't divorce Horace MARRINER.  Who is Mr HAYWOOD or perhaps there wasn't there one?

Marriage
SIMONSEN Walter
HAYWOOD Emily Carlone
1926  Reg# 1411

http://mapping.fcmp.com.au:1001/Pubmapping/index.aspx
SIMONSEN  Emma C  54 years
Cremated  26 Mar 1956
Scattered Cremated Remains On Request

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article140764325
The Australasian  8 Nov 1924
To save the life of Walter Simonsen, whose arm was nearly wrenched off in a machine at the Mississippi sawmill, 12 miles from Warburton, David Gray, an other employee at the mill, gave a pint of his blood to be transfused into the injured man. The transfusion, it is said, saved his life.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12092395
The Argus  1 Feb 1939
I, Walter Simonsen, of Danish nationality, born at Odense, and resident 20 years in Australia, 
now residing at Wood's Point, intend to Apply for Naturalisation under the Nationality Act 1920-1936.

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx
SIMONSEN Anders Christon;
Date of naturalisation - 25 Jul 1939
Previous nationality - Danish  Place of birth Odense, Denmark
Year of birth - 1892  Place of residence - Woods Point, Vic;
Additional Information - Known as SIMONSEN, Walter; [W] SIMONSEN, Emily

I did wonder if this was the same man....place of birth a match but this man is two years younger.  NOK not Emma though.
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=557345

Australian Electoral Roll
1943
SIMONSEN Emily Carlone  44 Barkly Street, Carlton  HD

1949
SIMONSEN Emily Carlone  16 Moor Street, Fitzroy  HD

1954
SIMONSEN Emily Carlone  16 Moor Street, Fitzroy  HD
SIMONSEN Walter Anders C,  16 Moor Street, Fitzroy  Clerk

1958, 1963
SIMONSEN Anders Christian W,  Bourke Street, Mt Evelyn  Occupation  Nil

Walter's death
SIMONSEN Andres Christian
Parents unknown
At Footscray  71 years  1964  Reg#24416

Probate file at Public Records Office
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
SIMONSEN Anders Christian Walter Retired  West Footscray 5 Nov 1964 619/092
VPRS 28/P4, unit 3318; VPRS 7591/P3, unit 562

Cando
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 07 January 15 04:19 GMT (UK)
Marriage:

http://postimg.org/image/3lgansjdn/

Death:

http://postimg.org/image/l3otvz3xh/

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: cando on Wednesday 07 January 15 06:43 GMT (UK)
Debra good find...where did you find those? 

So she fibbed about her parents ::)  There is no birth for an Emily Carlone HAYWOOD on the Vic indexes.   As I mentioned previously, I doubt there was a divorce.

Cando
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: schio on Thursday 08 January 15 02:39 GMT (UK)
I have been trying to decipher what happened to Emma Caroline Marriner (lang) for some time but put it in the too hard basket.  Thanks to Cando and Dundee for their comments.  Can anyone help... I don't understand how you can get married without a divorce and probably a made up name of Emily Caroline Marriner.  Was it quite easy to do in these days???
I have been able to obtain much information on Emma's father Frederick Lange (originally from Hamilton in Vic and originally from Germany).  I know a lady in Apollo Bay who just turned 90 who is a descendant.  How to hear from you soon. Schio
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: cando on Thursday 08 January 15 04:05 GMT (UK)
Quote
Thanks to Cando and Dundee for their comments.  Can anyone help... I don't understand how you can get married without a divorce and probably a made up name of Emily Caroline Marriner.  Was it quite easy to do in these days???

They aren't comments it is research.  We have helped you.

She didn't marry in 1926 with the name Emily Caroline MARRINER....she used the surname HAYWOOD.  Are you reading the links which have her 2nd marriage and death certificates? 

People weren't asked for ID and what would they have anyway....a birth certificate if they were lucky.  Her mother died the same year Emma was born...perhaps the HAYWOOD family raised her.

You could purchase her 1916 marriage certificate and compare the signatures. 

Cando
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: beccamacca on Monday 27 July 15 12:34 BST (UK)
Does anyone know where Walter [Andres Christian] Simonsen was interred? I see he died in 1964 in Footscray, but I can't see him in Footscray Cemetery or the Greater Metropolitan Cemeteries.
Title: Re: Disappearance of Emma Caroline MARRINER nee LANG
Post by: Yonks Ago on Monday 27 July 15 13:03 BST (UK)
I so agree...ID was and at most time even now not checked..so you could say your mother was mary christmas..my own Grandmother used..the wrong name most of her life..but silly woman..used her baby sisters name..my mother had her two middle names..thinking she was named after her mother..but no..these were the names of my mothers aunty....I found this out a year or so before my mother died..I never told her..
Also..you could back pre 1920 I think it was take on a name..and it didnt have to be legal changed.

Yonks