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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: thebabsie on Sunday 20 May 12 17:03 BST (UK)
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I have run into a problem and am hoping that someone can help me. My ancestral lineage stems from the Motley's of Lincolnshire, England. I have traced them back to James Motley and Sarah Cutler. I have that James Motley was born 27 Dec 1730 Harrington, Lincolnshire and married Sarah Cutler on 11 August 1752 at St Phillip & St Jacobs Bristol, Gloucester, England.
Their son, William Motley, was born 1776 in Lincolnshire, England. (Sorry, I don't have an exact date of William's Birth.) The problem is that Sarah would have been 56 years old when she had William as her birth is recorded as 1720. That's all I have. I don't know Sarah Cutler parents name or anything else about her. Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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I assume that this is the William Motley you are referring to
WILLIAM MOTLEY
Christening 12th May 1776 Stickney, Lincolnshire
Father JAMES MOTLEY
Mother SARAH
How do you know that his mother is Sarah Cutler?
Rosie
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Looks a bit messy ;D
We need to back track a little I think.
William MOTLEY Christened 12 May 1776, Stickney, Lincolnshire
Parents JAMES/SARAH
Siblings on same Batch in Stickney;
WILLM Motlow, 25 March 1770, Buried 06 Sept 1770
THOS Motlow, 09 June 1771 (may have died)
THOS Motlow, 29 May 1774
Both of these only have Fathers name JAMES
These are also on FreeREG under Motlow+
JOHN Matlow, 14 August 1768, St Luke, Stickney, Father JAMES
Do you have any earlier Children to them if you think they Married 1752?
I notice that is a submitted marriage record on the IGI.
Trish :)
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Burial of a JAMES Motlow, 28 June 1783, Stickney, age not given. (FreeREG)
Burial of a SARAH Motley, age 75 (Birth c 1748), 05 April 1823, Lincoln (F/S)
The Sarah Burial although not proven to be yours, would fit better for someone having Children 1768-1774.
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Do you have any earlier Children to them if you think they Married 1752?
I notice that is a submitted marriage record on the IGI.
a tree on anc* has
Elizabeth 1753 Scamblesby
Mary 1755 Scamblesby
Sarah 1760 Brinkhill
George 1766 Brinkhill
before moving to Stickney
They certainly moved around if they are right ::)
Thanks for that burial Trish I was just going to see if I could find it. ;D
Rosie
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I'll leave you too it Rosie, off to be for me :)
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Burial of a JAMES Motlow, 28 June 1783, Stickney, age not given. (FreeREG)
Burial of a SARAH Motley, age 75 (Birth c 1748), 05 April 1823, Lincoln (F/S)
The Sarah Burial although not proven to be yours, would fit better for someone having Children 1768-1774.
An alternative might be a marriage 1784 Stickney, Sarah MOTLOW to George PLANT ... checking now.
EDIT: Marriage register doesn't say widow, so perhaps it was the daughter http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=619067&iid=285312
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... as her birth is recorded as 1720.
By whom?
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a tree on anc* has
Elizabeth 1753 Scamblesby
Mary 1755 Scamblesby
Sarah 1760 Brinkhill
George 1766 Brinkhill
before moving to Stickney
James MOTLEY married Sarah WEATHERHOG 2 Oct 1753 at Scamblesby
There must be a fair chance that she was born there http://tinyurl.com/74y3ets
I hate to think that someone has been picking stuff from all over the country from the IGI because it "sort of" fits. ::)
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Hi Geoff
Wondered where you were ;D
Well done that's more like it.
There are lots of trees on Anc* giving marriage in Bristol to Sarah Cutler and a year of birth for Sarah as 1720 (10 years before James) it looks like the usual case of thinking all English BMD's are on the IGI/familysearch and the trees are being copied without verifying.
Rosie
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What I have from the census records and from marriage banns are as follows:
William Motley born about 1801, marrried Rebecca Wales May 21, 1833 in Kirton, Holland, Lincolnshire, England. William Motley is the son of William Motley (b. 1776 and d. 1871) and Mary Bee (d. before 1836 because William remarried that year.) Mary Bee is the daughter of Sarah Bee. William Motley is the son of James Motley and Sarah Cutler. James Motley born December 27, 1730, married Sarah Cutler August 11, 1752 and died in 1783. I have Sarah Cutler as being born in 1720 from the census records at Family Search. The dates and information that I have on the William's is what I know for certain as that is in the family bible that was passed down to me. William's father, William gave him the bible when he left England for the USA. I don't know what you mean by IGI?
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Sarah Wetherhog born in 1723, that would make her 53 years old when she had William in 1776.
I guess that is possible, but a little out there. 53 is rather old, even now, to have a child.
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I have Sarah Cutler as being born in 1720 from the census records at Family Search.
Not from a census ... the first census available to us is 1841 by which time she would have been quite old.
The IGI (International Genealogical Index) is to be found on the Family Search website.
It contains some records which are extracted (copied) from parish registers and, generally, are reliable.
Some records are submitted "by a member of the LDS Church" and range in worth from "100% reliable" to "100% fabricated".
You've said yourself that your "facts" involve someone giving birth aged 56, so perhaps your starting point for this person is unreliable. Finding something on the internet and accepting it as fact will get you all sorts of problems.
Instead of grabbing at the first "fact" you come across, read through this thread and see if the things we have found could actually be correct. Unfortunately, although I refer to a 1753 marriage, the Scamblesby marriage register which is online begins at 1754 so I cannot substantiate this fact. :(
The Sarah WEATHERHOG baptism you are disputing was actually 1732, not 1723. :)
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You may note that the first daughter of James and Sarah was called Elizabeth ... the same name as the mother of the Sarah WEATHERHOG who was bap in 1732. Naming first daughter after the bride's mother is a common though not infallible clue. There was also a son called George, the name of the father of Sarah WEATHERHOG.
A George WHETHERHOG married an Elizabeth SMITH at Belchford 1 May 1722
You will find that marriage about 12 lines from the bottom of the right hand page here - registers in those days were not often very helpful :) http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=558800&iid=46431
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William Motley, born about 1801 married Rebecca Wales (parents John Addison and Rebekah Wales) on May 21, 1833 Kirton in Holland Parish Records. William Motley is the son of William Motley, born 1776, Donington, Lincolnshire, England, and Mary Bee. Mary Bee was born 31 July 1799 Kirton in Holland, Lincolnshire, England. This much I have documentation for, the bible and from the Lincolnshire Records - National Archives, Family Search, etc... Somewhere, and I am sorry I really don't remember, I have that William's parents were James Motley and Sarah Cutler. James Motley being born December 27, 1730, he would have been 46 when William was born. Sarah's last name is not listed, but she is on Ancestry.com all over the place. When I see something repeated that much, seems reasonable that that would be correct. But, I really don't know. The last name is Motley. I am 100% certain of that. ;)
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Is it Whetherhog or Weatherhog? Any way to know for sure? Sarah would have been 44 when whe had William, that is much more possible. I am very grateful for the help, I have been ripping my hair out over this. William Motley, born about 1801, is my g-great grandfather. His son, Charles is my great-grandfather. Trying to get a family ancestry to leave for the family. Your help is most sincerely appreciated. :D
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I looked at the register that you sent, (about 12 lines from the bottom, right) and I can't find James, Sarah or any mention of a Motley??? ???
OOOPS, you meant George Whetherhog and Elizabeth Smith. Sorry. :-[
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Is it Whetherhog or Weatherhog?
I can't answer that. :-\
... but I can add that there are said to be six surviving signatures of the man we know of as William SHAKESPEARE.
Each of them has a different spelling and none of them is spelt SHAKESPEARE! If the great man didn't know - or didn't care - about the "correct" spelling, what hope is there for the rest of us? :)
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You have a wonderful sense of humor. Thank you so much for your help. I am on to the next Motley, John Motley (b. 1699 d. 1740) and Elizabeth Mary Hall (b. 1700 d. 1763) I think the Motley's go way back in Lincolnshire. I am hoping that this will be much easier to trace. ;D
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She was just Mary HALL ... see about halfway down, right-hand page here http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplayTranscript.aspx?oid=650581&iid=143526
I actually have a MOTLEY ancestor of my own (Frances born c1737) but have no idea from whence she came. :(
To return to the subject of spelling ... if I am the tenth generation of WEATHERHOGGs, none of my forefathers nor I able to read or write, and the vicar writes WHETHERHOG, I certainly can't tell him he's wrong.
If your name is MOTLEY and an ancestor has spelt it MOTTLEY, who is spelling whose name wrongly? ;)
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I don't have a Thomas Motley in my lineage. But I might be wrong. What I have for my lineage is: Grace Motley 1906 - 1982 (my grandmother) to Charles Motley 1855 - 1929, to William Motley 1801 - 1860, to William Motley 1776 - 1871, to James Motley 1730 - 1783, to John Motley 1699 - ? , Richard Motley 1668 - 1714, to Robert Motley 1623 - 1675, and lastly, William Motley 1591 - 1638.
I have only verified through James Motley, thanks to you, so far. So the rest of the line is still a maybe. Got most of the info from familysearch and ancestor.com. But from what you have said, it could very well be all wrong.
I don't think the Motley's were educated with writing, so you are right on the money when you said who really knows the correct spelling of the names.
The Motley seem to be very prolific!!!! Are we related?
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When I see something repeated that much, seems reasonable that that would be correct.[/b]
I think that is what we would all think ;)
It is good to see that you are checking the facts that have been posted on Anc* Sadly, as you have seen by the number of duplicate postings people do not check these things for themselves and happily copy them on to their own tree. You were not happy with the information insomuch as Sarah would have been so old at the birth of William. I didn't like the fact that they had both James and Sarah being born in Lincolnshire but married in Bristol then returning to Lincolnshire to have the children. :)
The Lincstothepast website that Geoff links to you is an excellent resource, I wish more of my family were in Lincolnshire. ;D
Happy Hunting
Rosie
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Other threads connected to this family
Motley
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,586801.new.html#new
Wales
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,586861.msg4379886.html#msg4379886
Addison
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,630106.new.html#new
Information collated in Addison thread. Posts #8 onwards
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I think I can help you,because I too am related to the Motley's.
Go to www.thesignsofthetimes.com.au click on surnames list.The compiler of this AMAZING site is
also related to the Motley's.