RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: MarionL on Thursday 17 May 12 13:53 BST (UK)
-
Hi! I'm a new girl. I've come to a full-stop and can't think where to try next.
I should be so grateful if anyone can get me kick started again.
My query concerns my husband's great grandfather, William Langham, born 1828 at Romford, Essex. William was a ships carpenter at the Royal Arsenal, Woolwich. I have details of his parents, his wife and five children but William himself seems to have disappeared at some time between 31st May 1867 (when he, personally, registered the birth of his fifth child) and 3rd April 1871 (Census day) when his wife calls herself a widow.
In the 1881 census, she refers to herself as separated.
There is no record of William's death in UK and I can find nothing to suggest that he emigrated although some of his siblings had already emigrated to Australia.
It may be significant that he had recently inherited some property, in Essex, from his mother.
There are, apparently, no surviving records of Royal Arsenal employees.
Ideas/suggestions anybody? PLEASE??
-
Hi Marion......a very warm welcome to Rootschat! Persevere with the site, you will hopefully get some of your answers from some very knowledgeable people on here!
Looking on the FreeBMD.org site I can only find the death of one William Langham in the London/Essex area which ties in roughly with his birth year of 1828......
William Langham Dec Quarter of 1897 in the Edmonton Reg. District. (volume 3a page 171). He was 70.
Edmonton spanned the boundaries of the counties of Essex, Hertfordshire and Middlesex.....
Any chance that could be him?
-
Don't forget that deaths are always registered in the county where the death took place, so if William decided to spend some of his inheritance to visit long-lost family, and died whilst travelling, then his death would not be registered in Essex.
Did William have family in other parts of the country ?
All you can really do is try to sniff out any clues which could point to where William went :)
-
Also although he worked at the Arsenal which is Sth London, he could easily have lived on the other side of the river. An early commuter.
This would tie in with him working at the Arsenal and 'dying' in Essex. Personally I do think this death is his.
At this time the Royal Arsenal would have geographically been in Kent.
You have not said where he married (area) and where the births of his children are. So we do not know if he lived South or East. Woolwich is one of those London conundrums being both sides of the river. North Woolwich would have been in Essex at the time you are talking about.
update: There would be no problem of him living in E. London and working S.London. Although the Woolwich Ferry in its current form originated in 1889, there has actually been a river crossing in this area since the 14th century.
The foot tunnel opened in 1912.
-
Many thanks for your input.
I believe I have every other aspect of William Langham's life tracked. It's just his death that I can't find.
His home was really Romford, Essex. He was born there and most of his children were born there too. The whole family was there. He married at St. Mary Magdalene, Woolwich and one child was born at Plumstead.
It's odd that, in one census return, his wife describes herself as 'widowed' and, in the next she says she is 'separated'. I wonder if, having come into some property, he just upped and left.
None of the suggestions above have borne fruit, I'm afraid.
-
Many thanks for your input.
I believe I have every other aspect of William Langham's life tracked.....
I'm not sure that I could ever confidently say that. We see a snapshot of people's lives every 10 years, and a lot can happen in 10 years. I thought I knew all about my own father and mother's whereabouts during their lifetimes until the London Electoral Roll became available on Ancestry, and I found that they had moved around a lot more than I had ever imagined :)
-
From what you have said about being married in Woolwich and 1 child born in the area, I would suggest that this is where his wife may have either come from or was she in service in the area?
-
Well, that's true, Nick. But, as well as the census returns, they had children pretty regularly and I can tell where they were by where the children were born and who registered them. That nails them down to a certain extent and its how I can say with such certainty that the last sighting of William is on 31st May 1867, in Romford , when he registered his youngest child's birth. By the time of the 1871 census, he has disappeared.
His wife was born in Romford too and she was from a large family who always seemed to stay close to each other.
-
His wife was born in Romford too and she was from a large family who always seemed to stay close to each other.
Not so close to stop her ending up in the Chelsea workhouse ? ;)
Personally, I'd take a punt and get the death certificate for the William Langham that died in Chelmsford in Q4 1890 (Vol 4a, Page 225). His DOB is only 3 years out.
-
Hello MarionL
Is that true that she was in the workhouse? That's a sad tale if true.
-
Well, it's entirely possible that I have the wrong family, in which case I sincerely apologise :)
RG13, Piece 76, Folio 10, Page 13
-
Hi,
Sorry but I have found a different William Langham living and marrying in Chelmsford, and a will to fit the 1890 death date.
1881 RG11/1766 f.6 p.6 Springfield, (Chelmsford RD)
1 Springfield Hill
LANGHAM
William Head Wid 50 Commercial Clerk To Brewer & Maltster Suffolk Buxhall
+ 5 daughters and 1 son
(Let me know if you need the details)
Then a marriage,
William LANGHAM Sep Q 1881 Chelmsford 4a 346
Harriet Isabella HIPSEY
and a will,
1891
William LANGHAM
personal estate £687 7s 9d
The will of William LANGHAM late of Hill House, Springfield in the County of Essex Commercial Traveller who died 25 December 1890 at Hill House was proved at the Principal Registry by Harriet Isabella LANGHAM of Hill House Widow the Relict and Albert William LANGHAM of Biddestone House Margate in the County of Kent Banker's Clerk the son the executors.
Christmas Day how awful :(
In 1891 Harriet is still living at Springfield Hill.
At least it seems to rule him out :)
Regards,
Daisy
-
Hello MarionL
Thought I had found him on a convict ship 1862 bound for Australia:
William Langham born abt. 1826
Ship name "Ironside"
but I think he had children with his wife Annie Elizabeth after 1862. Ah yes you say he registered a child in 1867. mmmmmmmmm :-[
I guess you know about this William the convict. In fact know doubt you have searched lots of avenues. Can you tell us more about the inheritance you mentioned? That may well be significant.
-
Good Morning MarionL.
I have just found the probate for Williams mother, Elizabeth 1865.
sole Executor her son William Langham of Plaistow Park.
She died 24th May 1865, effects under £100.
Sorry but no sign of his death yet, still looking.
-
I have just found the probate for Williams mother, Elizabeth 1865.
sole Executor her son William Langham of Plaistow Park.
She died 24th May 1865, effects under £100.
Sorry but no sign of his death yet, still looking.
Hopefully I'm looking at the correct family don't know if this will help marriages of William Langham & Annie Elizabeth Borrowdale & 4 children. William noted as deceased on 3 so looks possible his death sometime between 1867 (birth Alexander) and after dau Emily's marriage Jan 1883, if that is the case he should be somewhere on census 1871 & 1881 ???
As you mention his wife Annie noted as widow on 1871c and separated on 1881c occ Charwoman ???
1891c Annie E Langham age 59 marital status given ‘S’ Dom Servant living with the Borrowdale family
1901c Ann Elizabeth Widow age 69 Romford Essex in workhouse formely Charwoman own a/c at home
1861 RG 9; Piece: 409; Folio: 38; Page: 36
William Langham Head 33 (1828) Romford Essex Carpenter
Ann E wife 29 Romford
Frederick W son 1 mth Romford
Elizabeth Langham mother widow 73 Romford
Walter Borrowdale brother 14
1871 RG10; Piece: 1650; Folio: 32; Page: 2
Annie Elizabeth Langham Head Wid 39
Frederick William 11
William Lewis 9
Emily 7
Alexander 3
All born Romford Essex
William Langham f/a Ship Carpenter George St. father Lewis Corn Merchant
Married 12 Mar 1856 St Mary Magdalene Woolwich
Annie Elizabeth Borrowdale f John Willis Borrowdale Solicitor’s Clerk
Wits John Willis Borrowdale & Rebekah? Marie? Borrowdale
Emily Langham 19 Dress maker 29 Caversham St f Wm Lewis Langham Carpenter
Married 22 Jan 1883 Chelsea Christ Church Frederick John Beckett Clerk f Wm Beckett Builder Wits Catherine Harris & William Langham
Frederick William Langham 27 Coast Guard? Man Faversham Kent f William Lewis Langham Dec’d Carpenter married 13 Feb 1887 St Mary Lambeth Annie Lander F Thomas Mucisian Wits John Lander & Alice Emma Patrick
Alexander Langham 21 Lab. 40 Arthur Street f William Lewis Langham Dec’d Carpenter Married 14 Oct 1888 St Jude Chelsea Charlotte Elizabeth Miller f Frederick Cabman Wits Frederick Miller & Jane Eliza Miller
William Lewis Langham 30 Butcher 36 Arthur St f William Lewis Langham Dec’d Carpenter married 11 Feb 1894 St Luke Chelsea Elizabeth Louisa Old f William Coachman Wits Edward John & Alice Mary Old
Will keep checking to see if I can find his death
for info. there are a few public trees on Ancestry but none have a date for his death, there is however a picture of his son William Lewis Langham & his wife Elizabeth & their son Walter b1894 & (he married 1918 Ethel Nobel both dec'd some pictures of their children too)
-
Looking back at the marriage William's father named Lewis Langham occ Corn Merchant and on his children's marriage he has the middle name of Lewis
William Langham f/a Ship Carpenter George St. father Lewis Corn Merchant
Married 12 Mar 1856 St Mary Magdalene Woolwich
Annie Elizabeth Borrowdale f John Willis Borrowdale Solicitor’s Clerk
Wits John Willis Borrowdale & Rebekah? Marie? Borrowdale
What do you think? Could this be your William Lewis Langham that married Annie Elizabeth Borrowdale? name pob correct although birth age different from 1861 census
1871 RG10; Piece: 1645; Folio: 40; Page: 24
North Street Romford
Lewis Langham Lodger Widow age 53 (1819) Romford (no occupation given)
Death Sep 1871 Orsett Essex Vol 4a page 97
Lewis Langham age 52 (1819)
1841c HO107; P 330; Book: 15; Civil Parish: Romford Essex; ED 5; F 34; Page: 14
High Street Romford
Lewis Langham 60 Corn Merchant
Elizabeth 50
LEWIS 20 (1821) no occupation given
all born in this county apart from Lewis (Snr) Foreign parts (Germany)
Lewis Snr died Mar 1847 Romford Essex Vol 12 page 210
1851 HO107; Piece: 1533; Folio: 76; Page: 37 - Shoreditch Middlesex
Elizth Langham Head Widow 64 Romford
WILLM 22 (1829) Romford Ship Builder
William is noted as Elizabeth's wife ::)
1861 RG 9; Piece: 409; Folio: 38; Page: 36
William Langham 33 (1828) Romford Essex Carpenter
Ann E 29 Romford
Frederick W 1 mth Romford
Elizabeth Langham mother widow 73 Romford
Walter Borrowdale brother 14
just found the probate for Williams mother, Elizabeth 1865.
sole Executor her son William Langham of Plaistow Park.
She died 24th May 1865, effects under £100.
Probate date was 10 Jun 1865 son William Langham occcupation was a Carpenter
-
This is definitely 'my' William Langham. I can trace him until March 1871 when he appeared in court, at Chelmsford, for beating his wife, Annie. He had previously served 4 months hard labour for the same offence.
At that hearing, it was stated that the couple had agreed to separate. After that, there is no sign of William.
Just to recap, he was born 1828/1829 at Romford to Elizabeth and Lewis Langham (a baker/corn merchant). William was a carpenter with the merchant navy out of Woolwich Arsenal. After his mother's death, he seems to have taken to drink - hence the court appearances.
Where on earth did he go to? I am pretty convinced that he has nothing to do with the William Langham of a similar age in Leicester.
-
Well, here I am, four years later, and still no wiser as to William's death.
As mentioned before, he seems to have taken to drink after his mother died. Thankfully, his wife and children escaped from him (in 1871) and moved to Chelsea where, as has already been noted, poor Annie found herself in the workhouse. :'(
But she got out again! :)
I have found the occasional sighting of a William Langham in various workhouses not too far from Woolwich and I can only assume that it is 'my' William. No doubt he ended up in a ditch, possibly with no identity. Serves him right. His wife was a hard working woman and a very good mother. He didn't deserve her. And she certainly didn't deserve the frequent beatings that he gave her.
Thank you all for trying to help solve this conundrum. What a kind and generous lot you are. ;D