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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Sunday 13 May 12 22:10 BST (UK)

Title: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Sunday 13 May 12 22:10 BST (UK)
There were lots of JAYES (and lots of alternative spellings) in Enderby/Leicester and I am struggling to unravel them.

My 3xgt-grandfather was John Jeays. He died aged 75 in Leic union workhouse in Oct 1877. I think he was at Pegg St (Jays) in 1841 with his first wife, Sarah, and their children; Ancestry has him as John JONS (but you can see it's Jays or Jeys) in 1851, with wife no 2, Elizabeth, and their daughter Sarah. His father is named as John Jeayes, FWK, on his marraige certificate with Elizabeth. In 1861 he's John Jeayes and living with Sarah at Neale St (from where Sarah got married. I'm sure this is the right family). Ancestry strikes again in 1871, when he was Jeags. Birthplace given as Leicester in 1871 (by workhouse, would they bother to enquire too deeply?); Enderby 1861; Leicester 1851 (where the enumerator has just written "do" all down the line).

There was a John Jayes b Enderby in 1802,son of John and Elizabeth, and I would like to think this is my John. This is the only John Jayes (or any similar surname) in the Enderby PRs baptised around this time.

HOWEVER - in the censuses there is another John Jayes, married to Hannah, b around 1803-6, who stayed in Enderby. He died in Feb 1877, aged 74. I cannot find his marraige anywhere, though the couple's first child was baptised in Enderby in 1830. Hannah was from Northants so maybe they married elsewhere.

I've seen a will of John Jayes, FWK of Enderby dated 1839 (he died 1842 and is the father of one of these younger Johns). He names his children as John (the oldest son), Joseph and Elizabeth. All are described as "of Enderby". He states in the will that 2 of his messauges are occupied by John and Joseph Jayes.

So, is my John J the son of this older John, b 1802? The date fits, the name on his marraige cert fits. But not all his census returns state Enderby as pob, and I don't think he was living in Enderby in 1839 (think he was in Leic city by then). And if that is him, then who is the other John who married Hannah and stayed in Enderby? And if that's not my John -- then who on earth WAS my John?!

I have the Enderby PR copies online and have looked at the fiches too and got no further. I wonder if John and Hannah's marraige (pre1830?) might be key, but I can't find that.

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPP!  please!
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Monday 14 May 12 20:51 BST (UK)
Have these

Enderby   09-Jul   1809   Banns   
Joseph   Jayes   OTP            
Mary   Burgess   OTP      

Enderby   29-Nov   1818   B   
Joseph   Jayes   OTP      Wid      
Mary   Illston   OTP      Spin

Enderby   20-Sep   1801   B   
John   Jey   OTP            
Elizabeth   Tebbett   OTP

City
Leicester, St. Margaret   03-Dec   1826   B   
John   Jays   OTP      Bach      
Sarah   King   OTP      Spin


Leicester, St. Margaret   25-Aug   1822   B   
John   Jeays   OTP      Bach      
Elizabeth   Addison   OTP      Spin

Leicester, St. Mary   07-Oct   1826   B   
John   Jayes   OTP      Wid      
Catherine   Phipps   OTP      Wid



Not sure about this on

John JAYES of Rushton, bachelor Hannah WATTS otp, spinster 1830 6 Jul Stoke Albany

Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Monday 14 May 12 20:57 BST (UK)
Don't know if you have these

Enderby   05-Nov   1821   Banns   
Elizabeth   Jayes   OTP      Spin      
John   Bame    OTP      Bach

Enderby   18-May   1823   B   
Elizabeth   Jays   OTP      Spin      
John   King   OTP      Bach

Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Monday 14 May 12 21:17 BST (UK)
Trying to help with the city John

Do you have baptisms

JAYES   GEORGE   JOHN & SARAH   1829   06-May
JAYS   ELIZABETH   JOHN & SARAH   1830   08-Dec
JAYS   ELIZABETH   JOHN & SARAH   1832   25-Dec
JAYS   WILLIAM   JOHN & SARAH   1834   31 Jan
JEYS   THOMAS   JOHN & SARAH   1835   29-May
JEAYS   ELIZA   JOHN & SARAH   1837   12-May
JEAYS   WILLIAM KING   JOHN & SARAH   1839   29-May
JAYS   SARAH   JOHN & SARAH   1842   17-Mar


Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Monday 14 May 12 21:26 BST (UK)
These are St Mary De Castro

JEYES   EDWARD   1809   JOHN & ELIZABETH   20-Feb
JEYES   JOHN   1802   JOHN & ELIZABETH   01-Apr
JEYES   JOSEPH   1806   JOHN & ELIZABETH   14-Oct
JEYES   MARY   1804   JOHN & ELIZABETH   13-Jun
JEYS   HENRY   1811   JOHN & ELIZABETH   25-Nov

For John and Elizabeth in Enderby around this time, I haven't found a baptism past 1805 but there is an Elizabeth listed 22 Jan 1804 so am leaving the puzzle hoping something may have started to unravel fingers crossed  :)

Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Bunnygirl on Tuesday 15 May 12 08:44 BST (UK)
Hi
Found this marriage in Whitwick
Whitwick 28 May 1822
John Jayes of this parish Bachelor
          &
Hannah Howe of this parish Spinster
Marriage by Banns

Probably John was working in Whitwick and as this was Hannah's parish this is where they married

Bunnygirl
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 15 May 12 21:39 BST (UK)
Wow,there are a lot of Jayes there - thank you for all your efforts!

I have the Enderby info but there are others in that list that might be helpful, or might put the cat amongst the pigeons!

Enderby   20-Sep   1801   B   
John   Jey   OTP           
Elizabeth   Tebbett   OTP

I believe this is the John whose will I mention, dated 1839. JOhn, Joseph and Elizabeth (married name King) all mentioned in the will.

Leicester, St. Margaret   03-Dec   1826   B   
John   Jays   OTP      Bach     
Sarah   King   OTP      Spin

I thought this one might be "my" John. Family present in Pegg St in 1841 census - 3 children, Eliza, Thomas and William. Possible deaths for Sarah listed on freeBMD in 1842 and 1841. Thomas was an apprentice cordwainer in 1851 and William was in the workhouse, but was with his brother in Birmingham in 1861. My John remarried as a widower in 1845 ----- but maybe he wasn't from this family in the first place? because
Leicester, St. Margaret   25-Aug   1822   B   
John   Jeays   OTP      Bach     
Elizabeth   Addison   OTP      Spin

this is a new one on me and I note the Jeays spelling!

Does anyone have any further info on either of this marraiges (John/Sarah, John/Elizabeth)?


John JAYES of Rushton, bachelor Hannah WATTS otp, spinster 1830 6 Jul Stoke Albany
My money is on this being the "other" Enderby John as his wife, Hannah, is listed as being from Stoke Albany in all the censuses. Is there any more info about this marraige?

Muchas gracias :)
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 15 May 12 22:38 BST (UK)
That's a surprise with the Stoke Albany one, they are just records I have to hand so you will need to look at the originals

Eyes down for more baptisms!

JAYS   SARAH LICHFIELD   JOHN & ELIZABETH   1823   25-Jun
JAYS   ANN   JOHN & ELIZABETH   1826   21-Jun
JAYS   GEORGE   JOHN & ELIZABETH   1825   30-Mar
JEAYS   ELIZABETH   JOHN & ELIZABETH   1827   15-Aug
JAYS   JOHN   JOHN & ELIZABETH   1830   21-Apr

Burial
LEICESTER ST MARGARET   1252   SARAH   JAYES   LEICESTER   23-Dec   1841   39

What about this
Entry No.173,  MAR  9, 1845, after Banns
THOMAS PACKWOOD, minor, bach. BOBBIN TURNER, of ORCHARD St, s. of THOMAS PACKWOOD, LABOURER
MARY ANN KING JAYS, minor, sp. of CHURCH GATE, d. of JOHN JAYS, FWK
Wits: SAMUEL ROSS,  ELIZABETH ROSS

Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 15 May 12 22:40 BST (UK)
So who married Catherine!

Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 15 May 12 22:57 BST (UK)
JEAYS   Sarah Litchfield   Leicester   7a/307   
18-Aug 1868 St Mary De Castro
MUMFORD   James
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 15 May 12 23:01 BST (UK)
By a process of deduction, I'd guess that John who married Elizabeth (father of Sarah Lichfield Jays/Jeays) is NOT myJohn --

because his daughter Sarah was alive in 1868

and my John had a daughter Sarah Ann in 1846 - I doubt he would have given 2 daughters who were both alive at the same time, the same name (though it's not impossible!)


Mary Ann King Jays can be spotted as Packwood in 1851/61 though the enumerator in 1851 should have be sacked, it's a horrendously messy page and difficult to read! I can't see any more clues on the page - sadly she doesn't have an elderly father living with her, or anything useful like that  ::)
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 15 May 12 23:08 BST (UK)
I've posted on the Northants board to see if anyone has any further info about the Stoke Albany marraige.
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Thursday 17 May 12 21:28 BST (UK)
Have you come across theses baptisms

St Mary De Castro

JAYES   SARAH ANN   1851   JOHN & ELIZABETH   09-Apr
JAYES   SELINA   1851   JOHN & ELIZABETH   09-Apr

came up with this looking for Sarah Ann,

wondered what might be in the parish register, also

JAYS    Selina    Leicester    Leicestershire    1851    Jan-Feb-Mar Birth
but not coming up with anything for her after so far
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 17 May 12 21:44 BST (UK)
No, I hadn't seen those baptisms. Sarah Ann was my gtgt grannie but I don't know of a Selina at all. In fact I am not aware of any siblings for Sarah - there are none shown on censuses. I don't know when her mum died either (another mystery that I think I'm destined never to solve).
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Thursday 17 May 12 21:51 BST (UK)
Just popped a bit more above!
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Thursday 17 May 12 21:59 BST (UK)
Just found this but for Jun 17

LEICESTER ST MARY   969   SELINA   JAYES   LEICESTER   17-Jun   1851   INF
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Thursday 17 May 12 22:07 BST (UK)
Did you notice there were King(s), next door to the Packwood family just to mess with your head :)
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 17 May 12 22:07 BST (UK)
Is that Jun 17 one a burial? I can't find Selina in any censuses.
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 17 May 12 22:10 BST (UK)
Hm, the 1851 census was on 30 March. John, Elizabeth and Sarah Ann are the only people in the household in that census. Maybe Selina was born in the following week (and then they remembered they had to get big sis baptised too! :))
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Thursday 17 May 12 22:20 BST (UK)
Have the death of John from the paper

Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries .
Leicester Chronicle and the Leicestershire Mercury (Leicester, England), Saturday, October 27, 1877; pg. 12
JEAYS-On the 23rd inst., John Jeays, St. Margaret's, aged 75
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 17 May 12 22:43 BST (UK)
Arrgghhhh! YOu remember there were 2 John Jayes - mine, born around 1802, who said he was from Enderby, and another who lived in Enderby with his wife Hannah?

There was one who died on 9 Feb 1877, aged 74, who I think was the Enderby JJ (Hannah's husband). Another died in the workhouse on 23 Dec 1877 age 75 - I have assumed that was mine.

So who is this third one, who died in October?!

EDITED - My error - just checked the death cert and he did indeed die on 23 Oct. The informant was the workhouse boss. I don't suppose the death notice in the paper says anything more about who inserted the notice? I presume it would have been Sarah but it would be great to have some confirmation.
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: willsy on Friday 18 May 12 06:45 BST (UK)
Looked just in case but nothing else
Title: Re: Tied up in knots - JAYES
Post by: jancan on Wednesday 22 August 12 20:57 BST (UK)
Have you looked at John Jayes born Whitwick 1797 this is my 4x ggf.
Married Hannah Howe 28th May 1822 Whitwick.
Have no death record for him though
Not to sure whether this will help.
regards Jan.