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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Donegal => Topic started by: Henry5 on Saturday 12 May 12 10:28 BST (UK)
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Hello,My Great grandfather Joseph Kelly(1892-1965) moved from near Buncrana, Co Donegal to Scotland, he married Jane Daly in 1914 before going off to France in WW1. I have been told that his Fathers name was William Kelly And his mother was Margaret Dohertey.
On the 1911 census for Ireland William is 53 years old And Margaret is 52. I have been looking for other records of William and Margaret. I am unsure of the area, but I am thinking that people Either moved abroad or stayed where they were. I am hoping that they were born in the area but I can not find a marriage record, or birth record for them as this would have possibly given me the names the parents. Has anyone any idea what to try.
Thank you Henry
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This looks like the link for the 1911 census you mentioned- parents married c1887 and had 10 children (9 living)- William listed as farmer (does this match his occupation on Joseph's marriage certificate?):
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Mintiaghs/Shandrim/492403
Same family in 1901- with son Joseph aged 9:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Mintiaghs/Shandrim/1182150
Parents William and Margaret both born before the start of registration so there will be no birth certificates for them. All their children should have birth certificates and you can search the online index to get the details needed to order the certificates.
Have a look at Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html) and My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html).
Added- Shandrim townland is in the Poor Law Union/registration district of Inishowen so keep an eye out for that in the index.
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Here's a map of the Parish (Fahan Lower) which might be useful- lots of other great bits of information on this website. More links also in DONEGAL RESOURCES and CHURCH RECORDS at top of this board.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bhilchey/MFahanlower.html
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Thank you for the help, Yes they are the correct Family. Being a beginner I did not know what year registration started in Ireland, something I need to know.
the note about the poor law union district, Does that mean that they might be mentioned on the records or that they were at some point in the poor/work house.
thanks again Henry
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"the note about the poor law union district, Does that mean that they might be mentioned on the records or that they were at some point in the poor/work house."
No. Ireland was divided into Poor Law Unions which each had its own Workhouse but when civil registration started these Poor Law Unions formed the basis of the registration districts. To search for details on townlands in Ireland (civil parish, poor law union, etc.) see http://www.thecore.com/seanruad.
Word of warning- registration districts divided into sub-districts which are sometimes listed in LDS database (www.familysearch.org).
Thus, when searching for the Kelly children (presuming all born at Shandrim) the civil index should be Inishowen.
Here's a few possible births to start with-
Rose Anne Jan./Mar.1888 Inishowen volume 2 page 122
Joseph Jan./Mar.1892 Inishowen volume 2 page 105
Owen Jan./Mar.1894 Inishowen volume 2 page 117
Sarah Oct./Dec.1897 Inishowen volume 2 page 103
George Apr./June 1903 Inishowen volume 2 page 109
This looks like the parents' marriage:
William Kelly Jan./Mar.1887 Inishowen volume 2 page 159- Margaret Doherty on same page.
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From 1901 and 1911 there are 9 children listed:
Rose Anne (c1888) Rose Anne Jan./Mar.1888 Inishowen volume 2 page 122
Annie (c1890)
Mary (c1891)
Joseph (c1892) Joseph Jan./Mar.1892 Inishowen volume 2 page 105
Owen (c1893) Owen Jan./Mar.1894 Inishowen volume 2 page 117
William (c1896)
Sarah (c1898)
Patrick (c1901)
George (c1903) George Apr./June 1903 Inishowen volume 2 page 109
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I have found the wedding record.
17 Feb 1887 at Buncrana,
but there is no mention of the parents. would this be normal on this type of record and it would show the parents on the original. Or would I not learn anything from the original. It says that George Hawkin and Mary Jackson were witness's
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Is that a church record?
See here for details on civil marriage certificates- fathers should be listed but not mothers:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html
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It says that it is a church record, But it is taken from a pay per view web site. I will attach it but I will have to buy a copy of the original, Any idea how much they cost?
attachment removed
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Rootsireland terms & conditions do not allow posting details from their site so I've had to remove the above attachment.
http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/terms.php
The same page lists the charges but there was a discussion about the new charges here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,588877.0.html
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Sorry, Every days a school day.... I will get the hang of this, Might not find out much family history, But I will know the system.
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There is a baptism record for a William kelly on 08 April 1858 In a parish of Donegal called Culdaff.
Is this far from Inishowen
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See here-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegal/culdaffproj.htm
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Henry5
I know it is a little while since you posted but I thought I would reply as I think we are related. I am 99.99% certain that my grandfather is the William Kelly shown on the census reports i.e. your great grandfather's younger brother. Unfortunately I cannot help you with any information regarding William and Margaret (I am only just starting out on this genealogy business!). However my grandfather continued to live at Shandrum until his death in about 1973. His wife, Susan Fullerton, lived on in the family home with my uncle and his family until she died at the age of 101 in 2002.
My mother was one of nine although two of her siblings died in childhood. Four of my aunts and uncles still live either in Shandrum or within a few miles. My mother and two of her brothers moved to Birmingham in the 1950s.
Going back to the census details, I met the youngest child, my great-uncle George, when I was very young. By then he was living in Boston. I believe that one or two of your great grandfather's sisters also went to America (my mother, now passed on, told me this years ago but I didn't pay much attention then, and I have seen sailing records that may relate to them). I think another brother did the same.
I hope this is of some use to you.
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Thank you for the reply. I know my my G-Grand farther's children all have been to Donegal to meet family, all but one are no longer with us. they all lived in Scotland where Joe Kelly settled. Do you by any chance have any photos, even of the area. I live near Leamington spa and have never been to the north of Ireland but would love to.
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Hello again
Leamington Spa! It is such a small world. I live in a village near Shipston-on-Stour and my husband works at Stoneleigh. I think I mentioned that my mother and two of her brothers came to Birmingham - they all lived in Solihull and south Birmingham. Sadly all three passed on more than ten years ago but there are still a fair few of the next generation and beyond living in the area.
I don't have any photos myself - but my sister has all the family photos and she visits Donegal fairly frequently. My brother also goes there so he probably has photos of the area too. By coincidence I will be seeing both of them this evening at a 40th birthday party for a cousin on my father's side so I'll make enquiries. I've never seen any really old family photos though but then they are likely to have been kept at my grandmother's house.
You can see the old house on googlemaps streetview. I am not sure that I can post a link but enter Shandrum, Donegal (its about three miles outside Buncrana town) into the search field and the map comes up with the R238 road running bottom left to top right. The R238 is crossed by an unnamed road right in the centre of the picture. The section of the cross road going north is the bit you want. Drag the person icon onto it and streetview comes up. As you move north along that stretch the first house on the right is my uncle's house i.e your GGF's nephew. The very old house there was, I think, the Lynch family home, nothing to do with the Kelly family. Keep going on the road and it turns sharp right and the next house is where my grandfather lived until he died, and where another uncle still lives. Go just a little further along past this house and on the left you see the old house in amongst some corrugated roofed buildings - I think part of it was turned into a barn. I know my mother was brought up in the old house and I guess it must have been the house owned by William & Margaret - though how they managed to bring up so many children in such a small house is beyond me. If your GGF's children visited then I assume my GF would have been farming the land at that point.
The new house was built some time in the 1950s I think. I don't recall ever having been in the old house but the byre which was either attached to it or around the yard, I don't remember which, was still in use for milking in the 1970s.
I hope the Googlemaps instructions work but I'll check back tomorrow and let you know if I can pull together some photos. In the meantime, did you manage to go back any further than William & Margaret?
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Hi Henry
Just to update you, my brother is trying to track down some photos for you. There may be a bit of a delay as the photos are in Ireland but he'll see if someone will make some scans. He is going to Donegal in August and will definitely talk to my uncle who has apparently done a lot of research on the family tree. I could pass on your contact details if you PM'd them to me.
Someone on the thread mentioned an 1858 birth for a William Kelly in Culdaff. I'm not aware of family links to Culdaff but it is only about 15 miles away and still in Inishowen so not beyond the bounds of possibility.
Marian
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hi Henry i can confirm that you have the correct Kelly family.my dad still lives in shandrum and he can remember your great grandfather[ his uncle Joe ] coming to stay in shandrum on his holidays .my grandfather William Kelly was Joes brother as well as pat ,George and Owen and his sisters were rose-ann ,Winny ,Mary and Sarah .Joe and Owen went to Scotland ,pat had a bar in Derry then moved to London . George moved to new york, and Winny and rose-ann moved to Boston. my granfather William stayed to farm and Mary and Sarah lived in the area .i hope this may be some help to you
regards Liam Kelly
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Thank you for your reply Liam.
It is great to hear from a relative who is living in the area that the family are from. Do you have any information about our ancestors over there? I don't know if you would be interested in the descendants of Joe Kelly after he moved to Scotland, or if you already know. I know it's a big ask, but do you have any family photos. If so, I could let you have my email and exchange some info.
looking forward to hearing from you soon. Henry
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Hi Henry I would love to know more about joes family .
And yes we would have some old photos that
May be of some interest to you . I hope to speak with
My uncle next few weeks as he would more information
About the ancestors, my dad tells me my uncle would
Remember William and Margaret Kelly .
I will forward on any information I come
Across . Regards Liam
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Hi,
I would be interested to know if the Kellys of Shandrum were related to the Kellys of Kinnagoe.
I believe my ancestor William Kelly was a miller there in the early 1800s and by the 1860s there was a Joseph Kelly living there. I know it's a long shot, but since the townlands were next to each other and the families both used the names William and Joseph I wondered if there might have been a connection between the families. I have heard that there are still Kellys in the area that know of, or are descended from Kelly the miller.
Regards,
Robert
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Hi
My grandad was Joseph Kelly who died in 1965. My dad is Patrick Kelly and is the only one of Joe's children still alive near Glasgow. Think we all may be related!
Henry who were your grandparents as my dad must be your great-uncle?