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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: Matahui on Friday 11 May 12 09:58 BST (UK)
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My great Grandmother, Eliza Gill was born in I.O.M. but married and spent the rest of her life on Merseyside. On her marriage certificate in 1873 her father is given as James Gill, a bootmaker.
All census records after her marriage just state "I.O.M" as place of birth, until 1911 when Ramsey is named.
Can anybody please help me to find her birth, as I've had no success on BMD sites? Many thanks.
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Have you got a date of birth? Gill is not an uncommon name!
Catnav
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Sorry! Just spotted it! Really should put my glasses on!
Catnav
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Hi,
The only James Gill, Shoemaker, I can find conclusively is on the 1871 Census.
1871 Census
Glebe Cottage,
Jurby, Isle of Man
James GILL, 67, Head, Mar, Shoemaker, born Jurby
Mary, 67, Wife, Mar, born Andreas
Thomas, 26, Son, Unm, Shoemaker, born Jurby
John E CLUCAS, 9, Grandson, Scholar, born Jurby
1861 they are under KILLEY
This is interesting;
Catherine Elizabeth Gill Garrett
Christened 27 February 1842, Jurby, Isle of Man
Parents;
James Killey Gill and Mary Garrett
(Familysearch.Org)
1851 Census
Jurby, Isle of Man
HO107/2524/33/9
James KILLEY, 46, Head, Mar, Shoemaker, born Jurby
Mary, 42, Wife, Mar, born Jurby
William, 17, Son, Apprentice, born Jurby
THOMAS, 6, Son, Scholar, born Jurby
Jane, 14, Daug, born Jurby
ELIZA, 12, Daug, born Jurby####
CATHERINE, 10, Daug, born Jurby
1841 Census
Jurby, Isle of Man
James Killey 35
Mary Killey 35
James Killey 10
William Killey 8
Mary Killey 6
Jane Killey 4
ELIZA Killey 2
Trish :)
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ELIZA Killey Garret Christened 20 May 1839, Jurby, Isle of Man
Parents Jas KILLEY and Mary GARRETT
WILLIAM, 16 Dec 1832
JANE, 20 Nov 1836
THOMAS, 29 Sept 1844
(Extracted Records Familysearch.Org)
IGI has a Submitted Record of James and Mary Marrying 01 January 1831, Jurby, Isle of Man
I forgot to welcome you to Rootschat Matahui :)
Look I will admit I am no IOM expert but have done a little research in the area.
I am sure someone else will be able to explain the way Chrsitenings are recorded in the IOM which is different to other Counties of England.
Looks to me that James 1805, may have a Mother with the maiden name Gill.
1841 Census near to James/Mary is a WILLIAM Kelley age 74 (1767), Farmer
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I am sure someone else will be able to explain the way Chrsitenings are recorded in the IOM which is different to other Counties of England.
WOT!!?? ;D :o
I'll have you know that the Isle of Man is not a county, but an Independant Island, a Crown Dependency!
It hosts the world's oldest, continually running, Parliament, too! ;D ;D
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Sorry I didnt word that correctly and didnt mean to infer IOM was a County of England.
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Just winding you up! ;D ;D
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I hang my head in shame ;)
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Otherwise what do you think of what I posted re Elizas possible Parentage?
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It all looks good to me, but I'm simply a "comeover"!
None of my family lived on the island.
It does sound familiar - maybe because of the unique inheritance laws?
When I move back there in a few months, I will be sure to look it up.
Of course now I'm waiting for Frances_mnb to put me right! ;D
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Now that one I dont understand, Frances_mnb?
Remember I'm on the other side of the pond.
Trish :)
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OK got it, Frances from ManxNoteBook :)
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talk about bad pennies ! - however you beat me to it with the Killey alternative which I think is probably the correct one so well done.
Killey is an accepted alternative to Gill/Gell tho often confused with Kell(e)y - check it out on www.manxnotebook.com
also for most Manx (esp those from a more Manx speaking area) of this period Elizabeth + Eliza were two distinct names
I won't dwell on the IoM is no part of England but a succint ? paragraph by J G Cumming quoted by 1858 founders of Manx Society sums it up nicely
"It does indeed seem strange that, with all the facilities which steam navigation affords, the Isle of Man, presenting to us certainly some of the most beautiful scenery in the British Isles, and whose political status is of so singular a character, should continue to be so little known. How very few are aware, as I have found by repeated inquiries, of these facts following, very worthy of note —That its climate is more equable than that of any country in Europe, and its mean annual temperature higher than that of any spot in the same parallel of latitude ; that it has within itself more antiquities in the shape of cromlechs, stone circles, crosses, ruined churches and castles, than any area of the like extent in the British Isles ; that it has been the possession in turn of the Scotch, Welsh, Danes, Norwegians, and English ; that its kings dictated terms to the Kings of Ireland ; that it played a part in the struggle between Bruce and Baliol ; that the land, the people, and their privileges, have been transferred from one party to another by purchase or by mortgage on five separate occasions ; that though in the middle of the British Isles, it is not in point of law a part of them ; that though a possession of the British Crown it is not ruled by the British Parliament ; that though its people have the rights of British subjects, it is no part of England, is not governed by the laws of England, and belongs not to England by colonisation or by conquest ; that in all these various changes of hands through which the Island has passed, it has maintained in its integrity its ancient and singular Constitution, and presents the last solitary remains of the ancient Scandinavian Thing, or Court of Justice, which, for the protection of public liberty, was held in the open air, in the presence of the entire assembled people ; that its Bishopric is the most ancient of any in Great Britain or Ireland, and has preserved an unbroken succession of Bishops from the first till now ; that it contains no records of the Reformation (of the sixteenth century) ; that the Bishop in the time of King Henry VIII. was also Bishop in the time of Elizabeth, and died in possession ; that its ecclesiastical liberty is not encumbered with an Act of Uniformity, or an Act of Mort main ; that, for the better Government of the Church, and for making such orders and constitutions as shall from time to time be found wanting, it is enjoined by law that there shall be a convocation of the whole clergy of the Diocese, on Thursday in Whitsun Week, every year ; that Canons drawn up in these Synodal meetings of the Church have received the sanction of the Legislature, and are actually the statute law of the Isle ; that the Bishop can himself draw up public prayers to be used in the churches of his Diocese, and that such prayers have been incorporated into the Liturgy of the Manx Church ; that the Offertory has never been discontinued, but is in general practice, once at least, every week, in every parish in the Island."
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Now that one I dont understand, Frances_mnb?
See? Told you! ;D
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Wow! I'm blown away! I'd have never sorted that out for myself! Thank you all so much. I'm new to rootschat, so hope that I'm doing this right! Cheers, Matahui
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Yes you did it right Matahui :)
I was waiting til you answered before adding more.
1861 Census James says he is born c 1804, Jurby, so think this is his Christening
James KILLEY, 08 November 1804, Jurby, Isle of Man
Parents- James KILLEY and Ann CORLETT
Trish :)
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I suspect you are just about to encounter yet another - there is a good chance that James is a son of Wm Killey + Jane Mylvorrey - however they married as Wm Killey + Jane Morrison ! - Mylvorry is derived from Manx 'servant of Mary' (M->V in genitive) this was translated as Morrison (or Mary's son !)
no doubt you have find many more 'translations' in future work
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Thanks again for your help. I think I have found all of Eliza's siblings now. 2 of them have "Killey or Gill" given as the surname. Haven't had time to follow up the parents yet, but this is great for me as I must have been searching off and on for Eliza's birth for nearly 20 years!! matahui