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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: josie46 on Thursday 10 May 12 23:49 BST (UK)
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Looking for anything on Ongawa and Kondo Torra Kitchi who were circus performers in the 1870-90's They are in the 1871 census in a guest house in Luton along with several other performers in their troupe ,also from Japan They were born in Yeddo Japan in the 1850's Ongwa married my great aunt Isabella Hunter in April 1872 in Newcastle Registry Office England They travelled around with the circus having been in Vienna in one of the photos I have of them.
I'm looking for any information on the death or burial of Ongawa who died in Nurnberg after a fall from the high wire on which he was performing in1892.also wondering if Japan keeps old birth records from the 1850's Ongawa and Kondo's father was Ongawa Manna Kitchi according to his marriage cert. Kondo lived until 1925 where he died in Manchester. Thanks Josie
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"Yeddo" is another way of writing "Edo", the old name of Tokyo.
Looking at the 1871 census, I believe everyone is listed with the family-name first format, which is why they seem to be grouped by people with the same first name. Kondo (Kondou) is a family name. ~gawa (Original name might be Ogawa or Onagawa?) is a common suffix on surnames.
On the other hand, "~kichi" is common in male given names. So "Kondo Torra Kitchi" and "Ongawa Torra Kitchi" are likely to be actually two men with the given name Torakichi, not necessarily related. "Manna Kitchi" is possibly Mankichi (or Minokichi).
Was he ever in the US? http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mbf/ ("Ogawa Torakichi" is mentioned here - they were in NY in 1886, about to head for Paris).
I may have found some small reference on a Japanese site - is it possible, from what you know of the family, that they were back in Japan around 1883-1885?
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Hi There Thanks for reply saw the newspaper article.It's possible it was them In 1880 and 1882 Ongawa's wife was definately in London as her 2 children were born then.In 1885 they were travelling as another child was said to have been born in Germany and about 20 years ago I found in the library an old hand written diary of life in the circus by ? Whitley, in it the O'torra wire act is mentioned and it said that they were playing at the circus in Paris with ringmaster Mr Corradini and spending the winter of 1886 there.Haven't found anything about USA before but circuses certainly got around the world in these days. The Kondo Thomas Torra Kichi was definately Ongawa's brother. If you dig any more up please let me know Thanks Josie
pictures are of Isabella Watson ms[Hunter] and Ongawa Torrakichi
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another couple of pics jane their daughter
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some of the troupe
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Josie hi and sorry I can't really assist, but I'm researching the manager of the troupe Frederik Blekman and if you have anything on this guy it might lead to something mutual.
For example...Do you now if he was still the manager in 1892 in Nuremburg?
Many thanks and kind regards, Paul
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Hi Paul Sorry I can't help you I only discovered Frederik when I found them on the 1871 census have you looked for them in the 1881 or 91 censuses of UK, if not I can check for you but as the circuses moved about[these pics were taken in Vienna between 1873 and 1891] not sure where they would be I know Ongawa's wife and 2 children came back to Glasgow where she died a short time after his brother seemed to appear in theatres in England he died in 1925 in Manchester Ongawa's son was sent with orphans to Canada where his descendants live today but they they nothing about his past It was my grandmother that had all the old photos I published don't know how she got them.Have you checked the shipping arrivals and departures on ancestry or deaths in UK. If I find anything i'll get in touch
Regards Josie
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Josie many thanks. Yes have been having a search but nothing as yet. Have a friend in Holland looking as we know he was Dutch. If I find anything I'll send through. Best, Paul
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Hmm, coming back to this after a while.
http://www.geneaservice.com
- you will need to sign in and it costs about 10 euros to get the info, but if you search for "Torra" on this French site there is an entry for a "Torra Kitchie", first name "Esv?" This will be some form of bmd record.
I also found some Japanese references suggesting that ~kitchi (吉) was a common suffix used in stage names by acrobats and similar performers - there was a famous "Hayatake Torakichi" and the stage name was passed down.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A9%E7%AB%B9%E8%99%8E%E5%90%89 - some lovely period images on this page even if you can't read the text!
Do you know who was the head of their group in the 1870s? (very hard to get genealogical info out of Japan but I might be able to trace references to their movements if I know who they were working for).
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You mention "O'Torra" as another name they used earlier, I think this might be a French reference to his act (in Paris), probably the 1886 tour mentioned:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b550059124
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Jorose hi, yes that is the troupe O'Torra, unfortuately for me there is no mention of Blekman on the poster as manager, but I'm sure it's great for Jose :) and it a fabulous piece of art.
Thank You.
Kind regards, Paul
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Hello I got a copy of that circus hayatake totta kichi in English from japan don't know if connected I got Ongawa's father's name which was Ongawa Mannakichi from Ongawa's marriage cert from Newcastle in 1872 to my gt gran's sister
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Hi again Paul looked up the 1881 census found a Fred Blekman wife Annie in London it said he was a foreign correspondent born Paris 1840 and Annie born Southampton 1851 don't think it's them but you can't trust ages etc on the old records
Josie
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Hi Folks just found the poster don't see the year just the date that's them must send copy to Ongawa's great grandsons in Canada
they will be pleased
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just checked the 1886 calendar and the 2 dates match the Mon and Sunday 14th and 27th
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Jose hi again, just one thing please.. can you identify which year it lists Blekman as the manager of the O'Torra Troupe? As I could'nt see anything other than that he was the manager of a Japanese Troupe on the 1871 census.. many thanks, kind regards, Paul
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Josie think the French Blekman might not be the same one as the Manager of the Troupe was born in Amsterdam according to the 1871 census. But many thanks, kindest, Paul
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Was he related to the F. Blekman who was a dutch/french interpreter in Japan for Bellecourt?
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Dont know about Fred Blekman just wanted to know how you discovered the poster i printed it out do you know if there would be any other posters anywhere that would be great thanks Josie
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Yes same Blekman we believe. He was an Interpreter to both the Rutherford Alcock - British Legation in Japan in the early 1860's and the French. He was part of the Ikeda Delegation that visited France in 1864
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Gallica is a great site with loads of old French books/newspapers, I thought there might be a reference to his death. There seem to also be a few brief reports in 1886 of his appearance there.
You really should try to get hold of the "Torra Kitchie" record on http://www.geneaservice.com , "esv" rang a bell and I believe it's "Enfant sans vie" - so this may be a record for a stillborn child.
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I have a photo of a little dead baby of theirs in a coffin photo taken Sunderland 1870's and I found a baby[don't know if same one] buried with Isabella's mother's family in St Peters cem Aberdeen called Ongratua Torra stillborn will look at that site you mentioned thanks again Josie
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This one would be one born/died in France, or they wouldn't be listed on that site.
http://anno.onb.ac.at/anno-suche#searchMode=complex&text=O%27Torra&resultMode=list&from=1
- also some hits here (a bunch in 1883, some more in 1888) - Praha/Prague newspapers?
http://leiden.courant.nu/issue/LD/1892-02-19/edition/0/page/4
- here from Leiden (Netherlands) show in February 1892 "O Torra", described as "the original wire act" was among the performers.
"W Pierre de Boer" appears to be the organiser here but it seems possible at this point he'd struck out on his own - the other acts are not Japanese.
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Jorose thanks. I had a look on Gallica but could'nt pull up anything other than some references to his Interpreting.. nothing on his being there in 1886 so could you point me in the right place please.. my French is only so so, but I can understand most written work I think :) . Best, Paul
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Josie hi again.
looks like some members worked for Tannaker Buhicrosan's Troupes, he had 3 groups touring at one time around the UK and Europe as well as his Japanese Village in London 1885 to 1887
The Era Sat July 1st 1882: bottom of column 2.. I couldn't attach as the file is too big
Best, Paul
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Hi Paul have typed in era but can't find that date and paper Josie
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Josie I'll try cropping it and posting it this evening. Best, Paul
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Hi,
The 1886 records on Gallica only mention "O'Torra", nothing about Blekman, sorry for the mixup. I wonder if he was involved in bringing them over originally but not later?
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Ok thanks
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Josie here the 'snippet' Best, Paul
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Thanks Paul which town or place was he buried in that era paper how did you access it was it through the archives or what Josie
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Josie it's from the British Newspaper records: http://britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
The newspaper doesn't actually state where, but Lee Cemetery is the original name for Hither Green Cemetery, Lewisham ( London Borough of).
It is recorded that many of his performers from the various Troupes (as mentioned he had 3 at one time) and people from the 'Japanese Village' would often Lodge with Tannaker Buhicrosan who lived at a place called Yedo Grange in Lewisham, this at the height of his fame and riches..
In lesser times he lived at 44 Hither Green Lane also Lewisham.. a rather less grand house.
His death is recorded as being of this address in 1894.
One might assume that the Torra's where either staying with him or nearby at the time of their child's death.
Best, Paul