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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: terrydoo73 on Sunday 06 May 12 21:13 BST (UK)
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This is a difficult one. I am in the process of putting names on a family headstone and we are unsure of the date of birth for both members. They are husband and wife John and Martha Harbison of Terrydoo, Limavady. Martha died 6 January 1954 and John a year later on 17 January. We reckon Martha was 59 but being originally from Donegal we have no way of checking! John was about 75. They are buried in Balteagh Presbyterian Church outside Limavady.
We would really love to check out Martha's family connection but do not know where to start - possibly a marriage certificate??
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When and where would the marriage have taken place? Is Martha's maiden name Mackey?
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In the 1911 census John is living at Terrydoo with his sister so the marriage must have taken place after this and before the first child being born in 1916. Martha's maiden name was Mackey and came from Donegal but where we don't know.
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Found the marriage in civil registration index-
John Harbinson/Martha Mackey
Oct./Dec.1915 Stranolar registration district volume 2 page 351
See here for details on marriage certificates and how to order them:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html
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THank you so much - this is a great start!
Now could we go back a generation? John's father was Stewart who married a Nancy Mullan and we are looking for details of their marriage - 1870 to 1875. We want to find out where they married and who and what Nancy's father did as there is some question over this. They married in Limavady Northern Ireland
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Stewart Harbison in 1901 census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Lislane/Terrydoo_Clyde/1526520
DEATH: Stewart Harbison, age 79, Apr./June 1909 Limavady registration distric volume 1 page 486
MARRIAGE: Stewart Harbison 1876 Limavady registration district volume 16 page 863
BIRTH: John Harbinson 5 Jan.1880 Drumachose district
Have a look at Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html) and My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html).
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Hi,
Stewart Harbison and Nancy Mullan married on 13 Nov 1876 in Balteagh Church of Ireland.
Regards
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Thanks for this information - most interesting as their eldest son James was born on 16 September 1876! Is there any way of finding out what Nancy's father's occupation was. The reason we ask is the dispute we have over the second son (my husband's direct ancestors). It states that Stewart was living at Ballycrum when John was born and then when he died he was living at Terrydoo Clyde (he was a labourer then became a land owner). There is a belief in the family that Nancy brought a bit of money into the marriage hence his being able to buy the land which we now own. Perhaps the marriage certificate might prove this?
Now how would we be able to find out about Stewart's family. We are assuming they are all buried in Balteagh Church of Ireland in a family plot but as it is not mapped would there be a way of finding out for instance if he had brothers or even what his parents names were? We know by Stewart's death certificate that he was born in 1830 and as records do not really start until 1864 I am assuming we might draw a blank here??
I have drawn a blank at getting hold of a marriage certificate for John and Martha Mackey as the link doesn't appear to work to apply online but we have death notice cards which we assume are of Martha's family stating they were buried in Convoy Presbyterian Church Donegal so perhaps this is where they were married?
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"I have drawn a blank at getting hold of a marriage certificate for John and Martha Mackey as the link doesn't appear to work to apply online"
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,383526.0.html
(this was part of the information I posted earlier)
"Is there any way of finding out what Nancy's father's occupation was."
You'll need to get the marriage certificate to see her father's occupation.
"It states that Stewart was living at Ballycrum when John was born and then when he died he was living at Terrydoo Clyde (he was a labourer then became a land owner). There is a belief in the family that Nancy brought a bit of money into the marriage hence his being able to buy the land which we now own."
It's most likely that the family were tenants (even most farmers did not own their land) and were later able to become the owner when that particular piece became available under Land Act.
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Hi,
In 1858, according to the Griffiths Valuation, there was a James Harbison in the townland of Ballycrum where he rented a 42 acre farm which is comparitively large by Irish standards of the time.
Regards
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Griffith's Valuation lists the landlord as the Marquis of Waterford- the Waterford estate came up for sale in 1871 (although not all sold at that time). Description of the tenement- herd's house & land. From the amount of rent due each year it would seem that the land was not the best quality.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch
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Hi,
The herd's house and land was mountain grazing which he shared with other farmers. He also held his own "house, offices and 42 acres of land" also from the Waterford estate.
Regards
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Sale catalogue for The Estate of John H. De La Poer, Marquis of Waterford
LOT 80- Part of the Townland of Ballycrum
James Harbison 76 acres 1 rod 9 perches
Freeman's Journal, 13 Dec.1871 lists those portions of the Estate sold-
LOT 80- Part of the lands of Ballycrum, containing 244a 2r 35p statute measure, held in fee-simple; net rent, 249l 12s 6d; Ordnance valuation, 2£3l 5s. Sold to Mr. Scott at 7,000l, in trust.
Terrydoo Clyde is LOT 76 and includes a James Mullan (64a 1r 27p)
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Hi,
There is also a will of a James Harbison, who died in 1889, of Drumramer complete with image. Drumramer is the townland between Ballycrum and Terrydoo Walker and Terrydoo Clyde. See http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearch.aspx
Regards
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James Herbison/Harbison's Will is quite interesting and mentions wife, sons Thomas, James, Matthew, daughters Martha, Nancy, Jane, Eliza "who emigrated" and Catherine.
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/WillsSearchImage.aspx?id=195497
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Hi there,
This looks like a good match for Martha Mackey
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Corkermore/Urbal/479048/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Galway/Urbal/1168346/
This is the marriage of John Mackey to Margaret Jane McNight
Name: John Mackey
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1883
Registration district: Stranolar
Volume: 2
Page: 327
Tara
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Your post is very interesting about James Harbinson but we cannot find the connection to our Stewart or John - would he have been a brother of Stewart? We do not recognise any of the family members either.
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Having spoken to an older member of the family there is a question mark over whether Stewart Harbison had 2 wives - before Nancy Mullan we think there was a first wife who might have died. We also believe that Nancy died too after her marriage as there is no mention of her again in the 1901 census. How would I find out if any of this is true??
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One way to check for a previous marriage is the registration index- registration of non-Catholic marriages started in 1845. There are no marriages listed for a Stewart Harbi(n)son before the 1876 one so if there was an earlier one it's likely before 1845.
The marriage certificate for Stewart (see reply #5 for details from registration index needed to order the certificate) will give marital status (single/bachelor, widower or, less likely, divorced) which will answer the question as to whether or not there was a previous wife.
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Hi,
Cannot find an earlier wife but a Nancy Harbison died in Limavady Jan - Mar 1889, aged about 35. Can be found in the Registrar's Vol 1 Page 528.
Regards
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Thank you for your replies. Stewart was born in 1830 so his marriage would probably have been in the 1850's I assume. Is there any way of checking Catholic registered marriages?
Also could you tell me if it is possible to find information in Coleraine Library for family history? I have heard of relatives who have gone to the Library searching for details and come away successful???
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Civil registration of Catholic marriages began in 1864 and will be included in the civil registration index- no sign of any there.
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Hi,
Coleraine library have microfilm records of most churches in the north of Co. Londonderry. I have always found the staff very helpful. However many of these records are very difficult to read.
Regards
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I have Coleraine Library's list of church microfilms- if you let me know which church(es) are you interested in I will check the dates included on the film(s).
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OK so I am going on another trace here for the James Herbison mentioned in this thread who died 11 July 1889 and whose will mentions his children Thomas, Martha, Mary, Nancy, Jane, James, Matthew, Eliza and Catherine. We know from 1901 census he was married to Martha and his son Thomas married Rachel and they had children Thomas, Mary, James, Matthew and then William in 1911 has been born. We want to connect our James to Stewart as we believe they may have been brothers. Can we find James and Martha's marriage certificate? This will help us to find out their respective father's and obviously if I had Stewart's marriage certificate it would also show his father.
Would I be able to see the marriage certificates in Coleraine Library for both these men? We reckon Stewart was born in 1830 and James was 1822 so it is possible they were brothers and there were other siblings. What we cannot understand is that James owned 2 farms and Stewart was only a labourer and both lived in the same vicinity - Drumrammer so we assume that James and Stewarts father owned the land which he bequeathed to James being the eldest son. This is all assumption on our part!
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Would I be able to see the marriage certificates in Coleraine Library for both these men?
If the marriage took place in a church and those church records for that period are on microfilm in the library then you will be able to view the record and take notes of the details (but not photocopy the register due to an agreement with the churches at the time of copying).
The civil registration index is online (www.familysearch.org) but you need to search for bride and groom separately which is more difficult/time consuming without bride's surname. Civil registration of non-Catholic marriages started in 1845 (Catholic marriages from 1864) so if the marriage took place before those dates it will not be in the index and you'd have to search for church records.
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Have looked up the web site you mentioned and it does name Stewart Harbison as having a marriage in 1876 but no details of his bride?
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The details were posted in reply #5- as I said in my last post, you need to search for bride and groom separately. Reply #6 gave more details of the marriage, including bride's name.
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I went to Coleraine Library today and unfortunately Balteagh Parish Church is not contained within their microfilm records. I was able to look up death notices in the local Northern Constitution and found one member of the family - Stewart who died in 1927 and was the second son of John and Martha who died aged 7. We know that his grandfather Stewart and grandmother Nancy are all buried in Balteagh Parish while his parents are buried in Balteagh Presbyterian church just up the road. Would love to know who else is buried in the Parish church as we think it was a family plot Stewart and Nancy are buried in.
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Earliest records for Balteagh Parish Church are 1870 (earlier records destroyed).
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I am looking for details of death for the Park family. Mary Harbison married John Park in 1909 (between January to March I believe according to familysearch.org web site). They had 2 children - Stewart Harbison and Sophia. Stewart was born in the quarter July to September 1909 and died at the age of 3. Sophia was born in 1910 and died at the age of 7. I want to trace Mary's death and if possible to know whether John married again and to whom. John Park was born on 14 October 1866 to William and Sophia Love Park. I know that Mary was born in 1882 (though do not know the exact quarter).
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Hi,
John Park married Mary Jane Harbison in Balteagh Church of Ireland, Limavady District on 14 Jan 1909.
On 18 Mar 1915 John Park married Mary Campbell in Limavady Church of Ireland.
It is not known if they are the same John Park but the church registers may give some enlightenment.
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So am I to assume that Mary Harbison died sometime between 1909 and 1915? I wonder if it would be possible to find out a year when Mary died? I am assuming that Sophia was still with her father when she died? Any possible way of finding out when exactly Stewart Harbison and Sophia Park died and what of except by actually getting hold of the death certificate??
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Hi!
I know this posting is a little old now. It's a post from 7th May 2012.
It lists a James Harbison who died 11th July 1889.
This was my great great Grandfather.
There is a posting here that states the 'marquis of Waterfords' land came up for sale -or sections of it.
It also states that James was a tenant farmer on that land.
It lists that lot 80 came up for sale. 76 acres 1 rod 9 perches. Did James buy that land?
That little section was confusing to me, because it also mentions the land wasn't that good.
I don't think James rented the Herdsman cottage and land though. I also noted that his will was 'interesting' I have seen the will online. and it states that his daughter "If she should return from America, should be generally looked after and clothed by my son Thomas. Maybe that was the 'interesting bit'
My Mother (his great grandaughter) told me James was a man of some substance. The sum he left was in the region of £470. That doesn't seem a lot -even for those days.
I needed to complete my family tree here and was also looking for the name of his wife. I couldn't find it anywhere, but now believe it to be Martha.
Some help in deciphering the section on the 76 acres of Land, would be a great help.
thank you.
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Hi,
Closest I can find is the James Harbison who married Martha Cunningham on 6 Jan 1847 in Garvagh Second Presbyterian Church, Co. Londonderry.
Regards
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Hi,
The farm which James rented was owned by the Marquis of Waterford. He owned the whole townland of Drumramer. The Griffith Revision Books, see http://applications.proni.gov.uk/dcal_proni_val12b/RelatedVolume.aspx?6892, show that this townland was bought by Connolly McCausland about 1872. The McCausland family owned a large estate on the outskirts of Limavady until recently. When James died the farm passed to Thomas Harbison and was rented by him up until at least 1930.
James also rented a share of a local mountain with two other farmers but when James died this share was taken up by a man named Smyth.
Regards
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Closest I can find is the James Harbison who married Martha Cunningham on 6 Jan 1847 in Garvagh Second Presbyterian Church, Co. Londonderry.
Complete marriage-
Second Garvagh (Main St.) Presbyterian Church, 7 Jan.1847, Jas Harbison, full age, bachelor, weaver, Cah, to Martha Cunningham, full age, spinster, Liscal, father Robert Cunningham, farmer. Witnesses: Mathew McNabb, John McFaul. [groom's father not listed]
No other Herbison records for that church.
Kingkerswell has already answered your queries about the land but £470 would have been considered a large amount for someone in those circumstances.
James Harbison's Will is interesting in that he left large legacies to several daughters but Eliza was to be looked after if she came home and Catherine given only £1. Usually a token legacy means that the person has either already received their share or was left a pittace so they couldn't contest the Will on the grounds of being excluded.
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Thank you for your help in this.
Can you tell me though, did James Harbison buy Lot 80 consisting
of 76 acres 1 Rod 6 perches on the portion of land sold.
Would you know this, or is there any way of finding out.
some portions of this land I read was not of the best quality.
I was told that he kept horses on this land, but it doesn't sound like it.
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Hi,
In which townland was this 76 acres of land. It wasn't in Drumramer. The Marquis of Waterford was selling his Londonderry estate from the late 1850s. He usually sold it in large blocks, eg townland by townland.
Regards
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Sale catalogue for The Estate of John H. De La Poer, Marquis of Waterford
LOT 80- Part of the Townland of Ballycrum
James Harbison 76 acres 1 rod 9 perches
Freeman's Journal, 13 Dec.1871 lists those portions of the Estate sold-
LOT 80- Part of the lands of Ballycrum, containing 244a 2r 35p statute measure, held in fee-simple; net rent, 249l 12s 6d; Ordnance valuation, 2£3l 5s. Sold to Mr. Scott at 7,000l, in trust.
Terrydoo Clyde is LOT 76 and includes a James Mullan (64a 1r 27p)
What I posted is from the catalogue for the sale of the Marquis of Waterford's Estate so it does not list purchasers. However you can check the Valuation Revision Books under that townland to follow through a particular piece of property-
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm
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Hi.
James Harbison lot 80.
Londonderry.
Barony Keenaght
Union Newtown Limavady
Parish Drunmachose
townland Ballycrum.
It also says on Griffiths valuation that he was a herdsman. What was a herdsman in those days?
Thank you for your help.
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Hi,
The Griffiths Valuation (1858) does not say that James was a herdsman. He rented a piece of mountain land for grazing sheep or cattle and this land had a herdsman's house attached. It was common for farmers to rent this sort of land and to employ a man or boy to live in the herdsman's "hut" and tend the cattle and sheep. At this time James probably lived on his farm in Drumramer although he later bought several plots of land in Ballycrum.
Regards
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I have read the will of my great great grandfather James Harbison of Drumramnur Co. Londonderry, who died 11th July 1889. He had the following children. Thomas, Martha, Nancy, Jane, James, Mary, Matthew, eliza and Catherine (my Great Grandmother).
I also have the will of a James Harbison who died in 1900 in Bishop street Londonderry and I wonder if this was the son of James Senior. He himself died in 1900- not that long after James senior, which makes me wonder if I have made a mistake. He was listed as a Draper. There is also a Mary Harbison who lived at 12 Bishop street.
She is listed as a spinster and a draper on the 1901 census, and I wondered if this was James Junior's sister. There is no record of her on the 1911 census.
James senior's daughter ,My great Grandmother Catherine married and went to live in Drung Donegal, and her daughter Martha (my Grandmother) resided at number 12 Bishop Street as a dressmaker for a while until she married my Grandfather, also in the drapery business and went to live at number 11 Bishop street.
But Mary does not list Martha as a relative on the 1901 census (niece) at number 12- only as a boarder.
So again maybe this puts me on the wrong track somewhat.
But it does seem that the connection between numbers 11 and 12 Bishop street is very co-incidental.
Is there any way I can find out if James Harbison Junior of Bishop street was in fact James senior's son?
If so, then the link between numbers 11 and 12 Bishop street do fit together very well.