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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: liverpool annie on Friday 20 May 05 05:23 BST (UK)

Title: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: liverpool annie on Friday 20 May 05 05:23 BST (UK)

Amy Vigers born Camberwell Jan 1851

I have her in 1861 1871 1881 -   she has always been a visitor -  no parents present -  as she was born in January -  I'm hoping she shows a few months old !
I would appreciate any help
Thanking you in advance
Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Friday 20 May 05 23:01 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

I don't have access to 1851 or earlier, but it this might help the looker-uppers if I have the correct Amy.  Please correct me if this is wrong so as not to confuse things and mess up your lookup possibilities  ;)

There is one possible baptism on the IGI:

AMY VIGERS 
Birth:  05 JAN 1851   
Christening:  29 JAN 1851   Saint Mark, Kennington, London, England
 
Father:  FRANCIS VIGERS 
Mother:  BETSEY HESTHER 

Yours hoping !
Jonathan  :)
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Friday 20 May 05 23:25 BST (UK)


Hi Jonathan

The birth I had was just -  Jan 1851 Camberwell -
so you got the parents and everything - and also Kennington -
I know thats the end of a tube ride but is that close to Camberwell ?
you're such a smart guy...for finding that...

Thanks a lot
Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Friday 20 May 05 23:29 BST (UK)
Hiya

Kennington I think is officially in Lambeth which is right next to Camberwell, so not far at all.

Hopefully you'll have some luck and someone will find her on the 1851 for you.

Cheers
Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Friday 20 May 05 23:37 BST (UK)
hello me again,

I don't know if I'm helping or hindering here ....  ::)

But I have found the parents I mentioned in my previous post plus children (not Amy) in 1861

Waldrons, Croydon Surrey


Francis Vigers abt 1820  Lambeth, Surrey, England Head 
Betsey Hester Vigers abt 1823  Whitefiars, Middlesex, England Wife 
Charles Robert Vigers abt 1853  Lambeth, Surrey, England Son 
Edith Vigers abt 1857  Croydon, Surrey, England Daughter 
Ashley Vigers abt 1850  Dulwich, Surrey, England Son
Frank Vigers abt 1844  Lambeth, Surrey, England Son 
Frederick Vigers abt 1860  Croydon, Surrey, England Son 
George Vigers abt 1855  Croydon, Surrey, England Son 

Francis is a Surveyor to Auctioneer

RG9/448
Folio:    178 
Page:    24


Yours hopefully not making things more obscure  ;)
Jonathan


Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Friday 20 May 05 23:48 BST (UK)
Ha!

Just noticed that the Viger family she is visiting in 1861 the Father is an Auctioneer to Surveyor!!

Seems to fit then  ;D ;D

Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Friday 20 May 05 23:57 BST (UK)
Getting a bit carried away now.

A possible baptism for Amy's father?  He has a few siblings too ...

FRANCIS VIGERS 
Christening:  16 FEB 1820   Saint Mary, Lambeth, London, England
Father:  EDWARD VIGERS 
Mother:  MAUDLING 

Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 00:01 BST (UK)

I've lost 3 messages to you -  because you keep beating me to it.... :P
Can you see where I'm going with this ? can't find a John can you?????????
I don't care what the rest of them say about you Jonathon - I say YOU"RE GOOD.... :P
I was trying to tell you that I had considered Betsey and Francis but because there was no Amy... She was a visitor with her sister one census too -  but I don't think it was Edith - I think the poor girl was farmed out - but seems like they had plenty of live- in help...

Thanks
Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 00:06 BST (UK)
Told you I was getting carried away  :)

Francis Vigers married Betsey Hester Savage
1842
District: Lambeth 
Volume:    4
Page:    214 

Oh, John.  Now you tell me  :)

John Viger(s)?  What's his age? Where does he fit in with this lot? And what are you looking for?

Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 00:10 BST (UK)
This John? Two for the price of one !

1861

27 Chester St, Lambeth

John Viger abt 1837  Somerset, England Head 
Frances Viger abt 1836  Southwark Wife 
John Viger abt 1860  Lambeth Son 

John is a Horse or House Keeper (difficult to read)

RG9/353
Folio:    86 
Page:    12

Jonathan  :)

Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 00:12 BST (UK)



I was hoping for the one born around 1810 -  married to Sarah Aves 1830!
I am so sure this is the right family -  I can't stand it ::)
You said Francis had siblings...

Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 00:31 BST (UK)
This John seems to be a brother of Francis.  No birth date I'm afraid, so hard to tell when born.

JOHN VIGERS   
Christening:  25 DEC 1822   Saint Mary, Lambeth, London, England
Father:  EDWARD VIGERS 
Mother:  MAUDLING 


However I should warn you that there is another John Vigers
Baptised 23 NOV 1804 Saint Mary, Lambeth
Father Edward Vigers
Mother Elizabeth.

There may be others too ...

I would thoroughly check here http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
If you do a parent search (or a search on the baptism records for St Marys Lambeth) then you will see that it is possible (and I'm just guessing!!!) that Edward Vigers may have married twice.  There are about 5 possible siblings of Francis, some have the mother Elizabeth and the others have Maudling but they all have the father noted as Edward.  Elizabeth's children are earlier than Maudlings.  Or they may be two different families.  Have a look for yourself, as you know the families best.

Well, it's late here and I must get some sleep, so goodnight and good luck.

p.s. where does Amy fit in to all this???

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  :)
Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: kennyb on Saturday 21 May 05 00:41 BST (UK)
You've done it now Jonathan.You've got Annie all excited. ;D
                                                                   Ken.
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 00:44 BST (UK)
I'll leave it in your capable hands Kenny  :)  Night mate.

Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 00:55 BST (UK)



You guys are sooooo cool!!!
Jonathon - you're the BOMB ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

You're right Kenny - you're GoOOD too... :P

Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: kennyb on Saturday 21 May 05 01:00 BST (UK)
Wish I was a Bomb. :'( :'(
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 01:06 BST (UK)


Oh alright then.. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 02:09 BST (UK)

Amy got married .....

Amy Vigers (father Francis Vigers) to
Alfred George Mullins aged 37
son of Edward Mullins
6th June 1883 Hensham Surrey

I'm so glad she has her own home....!!

Can I ask a question? How come when using
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp

all of a sudden the names changed to Vickers and Vicars etc and I couldn't get back to Vigers ??? I was just getting going too..!

Is it just me???
Annie

Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 10:33 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

The familysearch site provides search results for variations on the names that you are searching on.  Although this might seem a bit of a pain, it's quite useful as sometimes surnames changed slightly over the generations e.g. my Edgar families were earlier Edger.  You can use the 'Use Exact Spelling' tickbox, but you will not catch any variations the family may have used.

Hope that helps.

ps Still not sure about the Amy Vigers Father Francis and what this has to do with John Vigers and Sarah Aves - maybe I'm being a bit dim,  but if you do then that's ok  :)

Is this completed now?

Regards  :)
Jonathan

Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 12:00 BST (UK)
Hi Jonathan

I guess I had a DUH moment with family search.... I knew that.... :P

You asked me how Amy and Francis hook up with John and Sarah -
I have this hunch and I feel I'm this close ....
I think Amy is John's niece or greatniece ..... I really feel strongly that this is the right family - they're all either solicitors or are in land/ property - but there is a lot of them and it seems to me they concentrated on the boys of the family

I know John and Sarah's daughter Sarah was married 25th June 1857 at St John the Evangelist Notting Hill to Richard John Hickman but can't get proof for parents /fathers name or an address

I thought if I followed Amy -  especially as she was single so long -  she would lead me back to the older family..... ::)

You have been terrific and I really appreciate everything you've done - you got on quite a roll there....... :D

If by any chance you happen to come across anything or have any ideas of how I can pursue this family - I'd be grateful for your input

Thanks again

Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 12:19 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Ok I think I understand now, but before I perhaps go off at a tangent ...

Who is it you are really tracing?  which one is your family member?  If I know then we won't go round the houses  ;)

I looked at the Marriage record on familysearch between Sarah Ethelreda Vigers and the Hickman chappie in 1857.  Do you have a copy of the marriage cert?

There is a baptism for Sarah Ethelreda Vigers in 1834 on familysearch, parents John Vigers and Sarah Ethelreda (it is unclear if Ethelreda is her surname) which seems to fit.

Are you thinking or do you know if the Sarah Ethelreda married to John Vigers is actually nee Sarah Aves ??

I'm happy to help, but I'll go round in circles without knowing who are you actually tracing  :D

Jonathan  :)
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 12:51 BST (UK)
OK Jonathan

This is the family I'm helping my friend with -
John Vigers married Sarah Etheldreda Aves in 1830 they went to America had Sarah Etheldreda (Jr) in NY in 1833 but she was baptised in London in 1834

My mission was to find out when Sarah (Sr) died and why...
I can find NOTHING.... :P

She could have died in childbirth but there was a cholera epidemic in NY in 1830
but I wondered if there was any possibility she could have come back - but as I can't find how they got there - how can I find how they got back....?

I checked all the cemeteries that I could for that time period -  including the special sites they had for the epidemic casualties - like Hart's Island where they took the emigrants that died at sea - but their records are not complete and I keep coming up with nada....!!

Emigration shipping lists yield nothing
With a name like John - I have come up with a couple of possibilities but nothing concrete

They weren't there long enough for naturalization papers or census

They were obviously there for Sarah (Jr) to be born - though for a while I was begining to doubt it......

1830 is too early for Ellis Island - so it's been a question of trawling through endless shipping lists

I was even thinking maybe Vigers was a Jewish name and he had married out of the faith but I couldn't anything from that angle either......

I checked NARA and as I have an ID I was able to go to their research satelite in Denver but nothing has shown up -
so I thought I would work backwards trying to find information that was provable - it's been a long process and I should have given up long ago - but it's ticking me off that I can't find what I want  :P
and I'm just perverse enough to keep going - I've got this far - why not go all the way.. ::) so......... that's the story - you asked........!!!!

Thanks for listening

Annie :P
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 14:24 BST (UK)
Annie,

If she died in England post-1837 then the best thing I can suggest is consulting the death registers either at your local FHC or online here http://www.1837online.com/Trace2web/ which is a paysite.

I would also look at the original of the Baptism for Sarah in 1834 - it may yield some clues about the parents.

I guess I should have asked the question earlier (we live and learn  :) ) as the time I've spent has mostly provided information you already knew with just a few new bits seemingly unlreated to your actual goal.  Pity.

Best of luck finding the death cert for Sarah or the family in earlier censuses.

Cheers
Jonathan
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 21 May 05 14:34 BST (UK)


Jonathan
You gave me a lot of information that was great and it helped me - and you gave me encouragement
I just hope you don't think I have wasted your time
I do appreciate your time and effort - honestly!
Annie
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible
Post by: Biker on Saturday 21 May 05 14:39 BST (UK)
Annie,

No problem at all, at least you have a bit more info about the family.

Let us know when you find out the answer!

Regards  :)
Jonathan

Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: johnrousdon on Sunday 22 April 07 19:46 BST (UK)
Have various bits of info on this Vigers family including short family trees.
I also cannot track Sarah Etheldreda Aves back before her marriage to John.   

Have a rather poor picture of John available if wanted.     Also of Sarah Etheldreda Hickman née Vigers.   (She was my great grandmother and died in 1912.)      After her father's death she lived with her cousin Edward Vigers at 23 Lisson Street, Paddington.   Richard John Hickman lived at the junction of Lisson St & chapel St. - almost the boy next door.

Never used a chatroom before so if I have contravened any etiquette blame it on inexperience!
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: jody 101 on Saturday 28 April 07 10:07 BST (UK)
I too am very new too a chat site. If you requiring info on John Vigers ancestors i can go back to Edward Vigers (1726). His 2nd marriage to Peace Toplis in 1837 produced one child Elizabeth who sadly died at about 4 yrs of age.
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: johnrousdon on Sunday 29 April 07 18:12 BST (UK)
Thanks for response.

I had a note of Elizabeth who apparently died of disease of the spine.   Poor Sarah Etheldreda (hereinafter called SEH) lost her mother when a baby, her half sister and father when she was about 12 and her husband in her early forties- no wonder she took to the bottle!

The earliest Vigers of whom I have details (from a Vigers history written by a living descendant) is Edward (shown as Vigous) who married Hannah Crossman in Tavistock in 1752.   As the author says "all the evidence points to these being the parents of Edward of Kennington, father of "our" John.   One of Edward's sisters was baptised Hannah and the names "Hannah Crossman" appeared in two further succeeding generations.

I assume that you are (or are acting for) a member of the Vigers family and am happy to give you any more info which I have.   There are a few photos in the "history" and I could ask permission of the author to send you copies.
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: jody 101 on Sunday 29 April 07 23:45 BST (UK)
thankyou for the reply. yes i am a Vigers we are probably working from the same notes although i have researched some of my own now. Any info you can give would be most welcome.
jody
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: rcv4 on Saturday 26 May 07 21:33 BST (UK)
I have only just joined Rootschat and was really pleased to find, I think, an answer to a problem in my research: where the name Hannah Crossman came from. Edward Vigers of Kennington (married to Maudlin Martin in 1817) was my great-great-grandfather. Is it possible to get hold of the 'Vigers history' that you refer to? A Hannah Crossman was one of the four unmarried daughters who lived with their mother in Surrey Villa, Streatham, South London after Edward died  in a house known as Vigers Cottage. My great-grandfather was Edward's youngest son. I have an ink drawing which is supposedly of Maudlin Martin.
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: jody 101 on Sunday 27 May 07 01:44 BST (UK)
rcv4
welcome to roots chat i probably have some of the info you are looking for. You didn't mention the name of your great grandfather so am i correct in assuming it was Martin?
Jody
Title: Re: 1851 Camberwell even 1841 if possible SUBJECT ANSWERED THANK YOU!!
Post by: RoserAncestors on Wednesday 02 January 13 20:14 GMT (UK)
I see this thread is pretty old but I'll try anyway.

I am descended from Edward Vigers who married Maudlin Martin in 1817 through their son John who emigrated to Australia. I was interested in the written Vigers history and the photos mentioned and whether anyone has information on Edward's parents.

I have Edward baptised 1796 to Edward Vigers and Elizabeth Clerk who married in 1791 but I can’t find their baptisms or trace them any further back.

Many thanks in advance if you are able to help.
Kind regards
Rhys