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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: alcrighton on Thursday 19 May 05 23:13 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have the following records for my g Grandmother and gg Grandparents but can find no trace of them in censuses or later BMD records:
Matilda CRIGHTON, Born: Queen Street, Dundee, 5th October 1865
Marriage of Alexander CRIGHTON (36) to Matilda JACKSON (27) in Dundee 1st district 3rd December 1860.
I've looked around on Scotlandspeople (until my credits expired) and elsewhere on the Internet for Scotish and English records and can find nothing until a possible for my g Grandmother working a servant in Surrey in the 1891 census.
Any clues on where else I might look or even better can anyone find anything?
Many Thanks,
Allan
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Hi Allan
Do you already have this from the IGI site -
Alexander Crighton and Matilda Jackson were married 3 December 1860 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
They had the following children: -
Matilda Crighton – 5 October 1865 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
James Jackson Crighton – 7 March 1862 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Isabella Sinclair Crighton – 21 September 1863 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Maybe the sibling names will help you
All the best, Anne
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Hi Anne,
I had the marriage record from the IGI and that for the birth of Matilda, both of which I've also found on Scotlandspeople. I didn't however have the birth records for the two siblings - I thought Matilda was an only child! As you say, the names of the two siblings should help me to look for more leads.
Thankyou so much :)
Best Regards,
Allan
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Allan, have you tried using wildcards on SP. There is a variety of ways to spell Crighton - Crichton, Creighton, etc. Might help.
Dorothy
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Thanks for the suggestion Dorothy,
I've tried all sorts of variants on Scotlandspeople and can find nothing that fits. I'm going to have another go on Scotlandspeople when can dedicate sufficient time to follow up the new leads I now have (especially the siblings I didn't know about) in one go. With the credits expiring after 7 days, Scotlandpeople desn't lend itself very well to leasurely research or just following up a single lead. >:(
Thanks again,
Allan
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Al
I found this looking for something else - don't know how common Crighton is - but just a thought - you never know!!
Bissett Craigie b abt 1838 m 1859/61 Dundee Margaret CRICHTON. 7 chn b 1862-1881
( took me for ever to find Dundee - this isn't my neck of the woods - I should have just looked for the name ! )
Annie
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Al
Do you have all your Crightons on 1891 and 1901 ?
Annie
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Hi Annie,
I have a possible for Matilda in 1891 in Nutfield, Surrey and a possible for my g Uncle William in 1901 (age 6, down as "visitor"). This is why I suspect Matilda may have been in France with my Grandfather (b. 1900) in 1901.
I've trawled the Scottish records for Matilda's parents/siblings in 1871/81/91/1901 but not yet found anything although my searh hasn't been completely exhaustive as Scotland's People gets darned expensive when you turn up one wrong Crighton after another!
Any ideas?
Al
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Well I was looking for your John - after the discussion on the Armed Forces..... ::)
but I came across a few and they may not even be yours - but you never know!!
for more information send me a PM
Annie
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This one I think you already have......
1891
1.) 17 Hazelhurst ? Nuffield Surrey
Matilda Crighton Single 25 Housemaid Dundee
2.) 11 Russell St. Bath Somerset
Margaret M Crighton Visitor M 55 lom Scotland
Kate Crighton Visitor S 30 Scotland
1901
3.) 122 Fitzwilliam St Rawmarsh Yorkshire
John Crighton Head 42 Coal Miner Canada ( British Subject )
Annie Crighton Wife 36 Scotland
4.) 47 Oxford Road Ealing
John G Crighton Head 36 Commercial Traveller Scotland
Annie Crighton Wife 34 Scotland
Alexander C 4 Lambeth
5.) Liscard Wallesey
George Crighton Head Wid 66 Dundee
Catherine M Daughter 36 Liverpool
Any good?
Annie
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Allan!
This Alexander says he's unmarried but.....and his age is a couple of years off ....!
1871 Washington Hotel Lime Street Liverpool
Name Alexander Crichton
Age 49
Birth year 1822
Relation Visitor
Occupation Civil Engineer
Origin Leith, Scotland
Town Liverpool
Count Lancashire
Source RG10/3787
Folio 53
Page 22
I felt like deja vu - he was surrounded in that hotel by ship owners and cotton brokers!! (too early for Claude!!) hope he's related!
Annie
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Any of these names belong to you by any chance ??
http://freepages.folklore.rootsweb.com/~bldr/balgay2.html
Annie
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Hi Annie,
Can't connect these Crichtons with my Crightons from Dundee. They could be mine but since they're all after 1865 and I can't find any of mine after that date - who knows ???
Cheers,
Al
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Well you can always keep them "just in case" ..... ::)
Seemed to me Alexander was a contender!! - didn't you say something during June Challenge regarding "familiar territory"
Maybe I'm mistaken!!
Annie :P
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Have you seen this already Al? might be worth a look if you haven't!!
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ANS/Archives/duncit.html
Pedigrees & Family Histories:
• The Aberdeens of Coupar Angus & Edinburgh
• The Angus Clan 1588-1950
• Cairncross - history of a Forfarshire family
• Journal of the Caraher Family History Society (1983)
• Alexander Carswell & Isabella Brown
• Two families of Clarks
• The Colgan & Hagan families of Dundee
• A Cooper family from north-east Angus
• Our Crichton family tree
• Crichton - our family 1777-1987
Annie :P
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Al - I REALLY think this is your Grandfather John b. 1897 - I think the sons-in-law are really stepsons and I think your great grandfather just liked "older women" - ANNIE is a wonderful name ......:P
1901 Bootle cum Linacre
Annie Creighton 1861 Bradford, Yorkshire Wife
John Creighton 1868 France Head
Christine Crighton 1845 ? Scotland Grandmother, Grandma
Elizabeth M Crighton 1895 Liverpool, Lancashire Daughter
George Crighton 1899 Liverpool, Lancashire Son
John D Crighton 1897 Liverpool, Lancashire Son
Mary E Crighton 1882 Liverpool, Lancashire Sister-in-law
Matilda Crighton 1886 France Niece
Mary Galloway 1858 Wakefield, Yorkshire Visitor
James A Patterson1886 Liverpool, Lancashire Son-in-law
John Patterson 1884 Liverpool, Lancashire Son-in-law
William Patterson 1890 Liverpool, Lancashire Son-in-law
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Hi Annie,
Had a look at the genuki Dundee reference - looks interesting but nothing on line so it would mean a trip to Scotland (not likely this year >:( )
The Crightons you found in Bootle in 1901 were previously pointed out to me by Paul but I can't make a connection. There are a couple of coinicidences however:
- The France connection
- The names John (pretty common) and Matilda (not so common) although my Matilda would have been 34 at the time of the 1901 census (I have her birth certificate). Her parents were Alexander Crighton (b. 1824) and Matilda Jackson (b. 1833) and I have their marriage certificate.
How were you thinking that this lot fitted to mine?
Cheers,
Al
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Can I ask you a question - before I set out my reply?
what do you know about Alexander?
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HI Annie,
I traced Alexander as follows:
- I have his name on Matilda's birth certificate
- I found his marriage to Matilda Jackson (5th Dec 1860, Alexander was 36), first from the IGI and then verified through the Scottish BMD images at Scotlandspeople
- There is a submitted IGI record for Alexander Crichton (with a c instead of a g) born 1824 in Airlee, Angus Scotland with parents stated as John Crighton & Isabel Sinclair. I think I also verified this through the pre-1854 Scottish parish registers at Scotlanspeople although I can't find the reference now ??? :-[
- Alexander's elder daughter was named Isabella Sinclair Crighton - verified through the Scottish BMD images - supports the authenticty of the submitted IGI record.
Alexander had 3 sisters (Isabell, Margaret & Elizabeth) and two brothers, John (b.1821) and James (b. 1825) so it's possible that Christine was the widow of one of these. I guess I'll have to reluctantly get out the plastic again if I want to follow this up. Why do I always feel like I'm being ripped off at Scotlandspeople? Everybody else who comments on it here has nothing but praise and seems to get a 100% hit rate on the information they're looking for. I reckon mine is less than 10% so on a par with your 62 quid certificates in terms of value for money :P >:(
Cheers,
Al
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Hi Mr C!!
OK First of all - I didn't know that Paul had already given you this!
Second of all you had said this on the Armed Forces thread
The reference to the 1/10th & 1/11th Londons is interesting as John was married in London in 1923 and his (half?) brother William, later a professional soldier & musician, appears in the 1901 census (but without his mother). Could John have joined the Territorials as a result of the influence of his older brother?
I'm going to ask my friend Trish on the Australia board to take a look at this - she's a whiz on the Scotland stuff!!
I have a few thoughts but I need to check further!
I was hoping maybe you knew his occupation etc and also if he had been married before - they were both a little old to get married for those days - I still think this is your family though !!
Plus with an Annie in the family - how can you go wrong?? :P :P :P
(I'm still waiting by the way!!)
::)
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Hey Annie,
One further bit of information. Alexander was a "Power Loom Overseer" on his marriage certificate and Matilda Jackson was a "Power Loom Operator" so it looks like she married her boss. Also, Alexander was a batchelor on the marriage certificate so it doesn't look as if he'd married before (I thought that was a possibility too at one point because of his age). Matilda Jackson was 27 at the time of her marriage.
The other couple on the same page of the marriage register were 30 (him) and 26 (her) so maybe Alexander and Matilda weren't so old for the times?
Appreciate any thoughts on how we can connect these two lots of Crightons.
Cheers,
Al
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Just in case you need something to do while you're waiting!!
http://www.rampantscotland.com/genealogy.htm
wade through these!! ::)
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Mr C! - stuff!!
http://www.monikie.org.uk/ah-saintpeter.htm
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/photodb/wc0598.htm
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/photodb/wc0690.htm
http://dundee-howff.info/logiestones/57.htm
http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-006-273-C&PHPSESSID=76d1961dca355d9547c67bcb1676e0fa
http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/life/briefbio.htm
http://www.fdca.org.uk/howff/Initial%20J_1.html
http://www.basedn.freeserve.co.uk/explosion.htm
Spinning Mill Works: 19 dead 1859 April 15th Scouringburn, Dundee Scotland
Explosion Boiler exploded
Dundee 1851 Census
Z/51/109/
Mary Crighton Head Un 18 Factory Operative Ans Dundee
Jean Crighton Sister 10 Scholar Ans Dundee
Z/51/116/
Stewart Thompson Head Un 29 Ans Dundee
Agnes Farmer Dau 9 Ans Dundee
Agnes Thomas Lodger Un 27 Mill Worker Ans Dundee
Isabella Crighton Dau 2 Ans Dundee
Jessie More Lodger Un 30 Mln Edinburgh
Z/11/142//NO 18/
Mary Ann Crichton Head Un 27 Factory Worker Ans Panbridge
The British Almanac of the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge
For the year of our Lord
1860
CHRONICLE OF OCCURRENCES.
Pages 256 - 263
From November 1858 to November 1859.
A large boiler at the extensive spinning-works at Scouringburn, near Dundee, belonging to Messrs. Edward, exploded while the mill was full of people. Nineteen persons, mostly young women, were scalded to death or buried in the ruins, and fourteen persons were severely injured. A woman passing along the street at the time of the explosion was killed by a blow from a portion of the building
http://www.geo.ed.ac.uk/scotgaz/towns/townhistory399.html
:P :P
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Thanks for the links Annie, I had some of them already and on the Dundee City page there's actually a photo of the street where my g Grandmother Matilda was born
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/photodb/wc0549.htm
I'll have a trawl through the rest and see if I come up with any new leads.
Cheers,
Al
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Hi Mr C!!
I was trying to find out the Mills in the proximity of Dundee - that Scouringburn one looks like it's a good possibility - owned by Edwards !
That photo of Queen St is so cool! gives you chills doesn't it? thinking your Grandma walked there! - I love that stuff!!
Hope you're having a good day!
Annie :P
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By the way - what do you think of the Muster Roll? trying to find out about that regiment - might be interesting!!
Annie :P
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Al, got some information for you on your Crichton and Jackson families - not sure if you already have this :D
Old Parochial Records - Airlie (Births) - 4th February 1823
CREIGHTON - John Creighton and Isabell Sinclair at Littleton had a son born this day - Alexander Nicoll
Dundee 1851 Census (282 - Bk.13, page 11 - 40)
110 Seagate, Dundee
John Crichton Head mar. 51 Porter At Tay Ferry Born Airlie
Isabella Sinclair Wife Mar. 54 Born Eassie
Alexander Crichton Son Un.27 Power Loom Tenter?
Born Airlie
John Crichton Son Un.age 11 Scholar at home Born Dundee
Martha Jack Mother-in-Law Wid. 77 No Occup. Born Kirriemuir
1851 Dundee Census (Book 47, page 26 - 111)
Hilltown, Dundee
James Jackson Head Mar. 45 Railway Guard Born Ireland
Hellen Jackson Wife Mar 50 Born Forfarshire, Murroes
James Jackson Son 20 Un. Brush Maker Appr. Born Dundee
Barbara Jackson dau. Un 19 Power Loom Weaver, Born Dundee
Matilda Jackson dau. Un. 17 Power Loom Weaver, Born Dundee
Janet Jackson dau. 14 Scholar Born Dundee
Janet Chalmers Lodger 20 Power Loom Weaver, Born Dundee
Had a quick look at 1861 Census for Queen Street, but the Crichtons don't appear to be there at that time. Sorry, but couldn't go through the whole Dundee Census ::)
Hope you have some luck in finding them soon. They do not appear to be on the 1871 Scottish Census.
Cheers, Dorothy
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Forgot to say, you will find some photographs of Dundee, as it is nowadays, at:
http://www.mccrow.org.uk/
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Thanks Dorothy!
A lot of this information is new for me. I didn't have an exact date of birth for Alexander and I didn't have the 1851 census information. It's interesting that the OPR has the spelling as Creighton since the 1841 Census entry for John & Isabella is spelt Crichton and the family has been spelling the name Crighton since at least 1860 (Alexander & Matilda's Marriage Certificate).
I haven't been able to find them any of the censuses either but it's strange that they are not in Queen Street in 1861. Alexander and Matilda's marriage certificate from 3rd December 1860 has his address as 16 Queen Street, Dundee and their daughter Matilda's birth certificate from 5th October 1865 has the address as Stromers? Land, Queen Street, Dundee.
Would you mind looking at the 1861 census for Queen Street again to find out who was living at number 16 and to see if there is a house name anywhere in Queen Street that resembles "Stromers Land"?
Many Thanks,
Al
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Hi Al,
Glad to be of some help :D
Yes, I will check Queen Street again, next week and get back to you. It was only a very quick look as I was running out of time. I thought they should be there.
Did you notice John Crichton age 11 on the census? John Crichton was born to John Crichton and Isabell Sinclair 10th/27th April, 1839 in Dundee. Wonder what happened to the first John. Perhaps he died????
Also on the Census, not sure who Martha Jack, Mother-in-Law would be, perhaps you might know.
I wouldn't worry about the different spellings of the name, it all depended on who was recording as to whichever spelling was used. High levels of illiteracy in those days!
Unusual you can't find the family on any of the later census'. Just a thought, I see that James Jackson, Matilda's father was born in Ireland. Might just be possible that Alexander, Matilda and family went over to Ireland sometime before the 1871 census???? I had a look for deaths on SP, but there is no sign of a Matilda Crighton (any spelling) which would fit in.
Anyway, will get back to you next week.
Dorothy
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Hi again Dorothy,
I'd kind of dismissed the second John Crighton (b. 1839) as from my family for a number of reasons:
1. He was born so long after the rest of the children
2. The presence of the first John to the same parents
3. The IGI record I originally saw was a user submitted one.
Having thought about it and found that there is an extracted IGI record as well as the user submitted one, I think that the most likely possibility is that the first John died (as you said).
Martha Jack was Isabella Crighton's (Nee. Sinclair) mother. Martha married James Sinclair around 1820. It seemed to be common practice for married women to appear on the Scottish censuses under their maiden names. The 1841 census (Freecen) has John Crichton (sic) living with Isabella Sinclair, daughter Anne and son John aged 2 (there he is again!). The practice did not appear to be universal however- Helen Jackson is recorded under her married rather than maiden name (which was Ross).
I didn't know (nor did I spot from your post earlier :-[ ) that James Jackson was born in Ireland but funnily enough, the possibility of an Irish connection occurred to me earlier today since Alexander was in the textile industry and I've since posted on the Irish board asking for help on following up this theory.
Looking forward to what you might be able to turn up.
Thanks again for your help.
Regards,
Al
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Quite common for Scottish women to use their maiden name after marriage - we do like our independence ;D
Will get back to you.
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Hi Al, found them on the 1861 census -
1861 Dundee Census - 282-1 Book 5/6 Page 36 -209
Stroners Land (could be Stomers Land it's not clear)
Alex N. Crichton Head Mar Age 36 Power Loom Overseer Born Forfarshire Airlie
Matilda Crighton Wife Mar Age 26 Born Dundee, Forfarshire
(Note the difference in the spelling of the name - Crichton/Crighton)
Sorry can't really help you with any more. Hope you manage to find what happened to them.
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy,
Thanks so much for this new information - I knew they had to be there in the 1861 census! Thanks also for all you've managed to find - it's helped a lot. The middle initial for Alexander ties up with the birth record you found me earlier and a death record I've just found on FreeBMD (it wasn't there a couple of months agi when I first looked):
Deaths, December Quarter 1900, West Derby, Lancs. Crighton, Alexander Nicol, Vol. 8b p. 281
So I finally have the first trace of my Crighton ancestors after 1865!
Thanks again,
Al
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Glad to hear that, Al. Hopefully you will now find the rest. Dorothy
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Hi from Australia!
On my tree I have a Margaret Crighton Wilson who was born in Dundee in 1836, which leads me to believe that there could be a link to a Crighton grandparent or relative. Crighton usually is a surname.
Just on a wild of wildest possibilities on your tree do you have any links to families from this area with the surnames Wilson or Oliver?
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Hi Elsie Ellen,
The only Margaret CRIGHTON I have in my tree is my gg Grandfather's sister, born in Glamis is 1826. It appears as if my ggg Grandparents moved to Dundee in the late 1830's and only their youngest son John (b. 1839) appears to have been born in Dundee. I haven't found any links to Wilson or Oliver although I haven't traced my family tree very far sideways.
I think the latest date for a possible link between our two families would have to be through a sibling of my 4xg Grandfather John CRIGHTON, born Airlee, Angus 1799. The sibling's I've found through the IGI are (Christenning dates in brackets):
Issabel (1783)
Elisabeth (1784)
Agnes (1785)
Margaret (1787)
William (1797)
George (1800)
There may have been more as the gap between 1787 & 1797 is strange. These are all records extracted from the old parish records so maybe the file is not complete? These records have been transcribed as CRICHTON but it seems that variations in spelling were pretty common in these records.
Let me know if you're able to make a link between any of these and your Margaret.
Regards,
Al
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I ordered the death certificate for my ggg Grandfather Alexander Nicoll CRIGHTON who died in Bootle in 1900 and the information has filled in quite a few blanks although has alas, still not helped me find out any more on the whereabouts of my elusive gg Grandmother Matilda.
Alexander's death was reported by his Daughter-in Law, Annie CRIGHTON of 100 Bedford Road, Bootle. This is the same address as the 1901 census entry that Paul & Annie found for a CRIGHTON family which I hadn't been able link to my own (page 2 of this thread)! Now I know that the head of household, John CRIGHTON must have been my gg Uncle, Matilda's younger Brother and he was born in France around 1867 - about 2 years after Matilda (born Dundee).
My g Grandmother must therefore have gone to France with her family before she was 2 years old. Where she went after that until she signed my Grandfather's marriage certificate in Marylebone in 1923 still remains a mystery.
Any more ideas anyone?
Regards,
Al
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Looks like John thought it was easier to marry his landlady ;) ;)
1891
Crighton, John L 23 Boarder (Where Born - British Birth Country - France) Bootle
RG12/2971 Folio 40 Page 13
Annie :)
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Looks like John thought it was easier to marry his landlady ;) ;)
1891
Hi Annie,
We CRIGHTONs always seem to take the easy route, I married my Bank Manager! ;D. I assume John's landlady was the widow Patterson - I'll have a look at the census entry.
Just had a look at the BMDs and hey presto:
Marriages March Quarter 1892 West Derby 8b 654
John CRIGHTON
Annie PATTERSON
So younger brother John was back in the UK by 1891 but I suspect that Matilda & James were still in France. I've been mulling over this new information and three new leads occur to me:
- In the 1901 census entry, there is a Christine CRIGHTON listed as John's Step-Mother. It looks like his Mother Matilda must have died (probably in France) and his Father Alexander re-married. Something to follow up here to find out more about Alexander's movements
- I'm going to have a look at the overseas births to see if I can find John and his niece Matilda. Could give me a clue as to where in France they went
- Alexander was a Power Loom Overseer on his marriage certificate from 1860 and a Cotton Weaver (Supervisor) on his death certificate from 1900. And since his son John was a Marine Engineer, I'll see what I can find out about cotton weaving in France near the sea!
Any other ideas would be grately appreciated.
Al
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You're not as green as you're cabbage lookin' - Crighton!! :)
1. So do you think the John D Crighton is the young soldier?
2. He had a brother William in the Army - we looked for Crighton not Patterson !
3. I don't think Christina was Alexander new wife - she was 20 years older than Matilda - I think she was Alexander's MOTHER hence John's GRANDMOTHER!!(1901 census)
Annie :)
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Al!
Heres something interesting - it appears there is only 1 John D Crighton in the medal cards !!
Medal card of Crighton, John D
Royal Army Medical Corps
1838
Private
Royal Army Medical Corps
1838
Private
Date
1914-1920
http://tinyurl.com/88wwb
http://www.1914-1918.net/ramc.htm
Annie :)
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Annie!
1. John D CRIGHTON was the young soldier's cousin: John David CRIGHTON, (born Mar Q 1897, W. Derby 8b 462), son of John (born 1867, France). John (my Grandfather, born 1900, place & Father unknown), son of Matilda CRIGHTON (born 1865, Dundee).
2. William the Soldier & Musician was definitely a CRIGHTON although was probably my Grandfather's half brother. He was born in Marylebone 1st July 1894 so Matilda was in London in 1894 but I suspect she returned to France.
3. If you look at the census image, Christina is recorded as "S. Mother" to the head of household. She was 56 in 1901, some 20 years younger than Alexander so she has to be his second wife rather than his mother!
There are 3 Matildas in this story so it gets a bit complicated!
1. Matilda JACKSON (b. 1833, Scotland) married Alexander CRIGHTON (Dundee 1860)
2. Alexander & Matilda had 4 children that I know about: 3 born Dundee; James (1862), Isabella (1863), Matilda (my g Grandmother b. 1865) and 1 born in France; John b. 1867 - the head of household in the Bootle census entry from 1901
3. Matilda, the 15 year old niece of John in the 1901 census is most likely James's daughter although she could have been an illegitimate daughter of one of his sisters.
I think my next step has to be trying search the French records for signs of James, the death of Matilda (1.) as well as my elusive g Grandmother and my Grandfather. I've already done a bit of looking around and the on line records at least are very patchy and even the official ones are arranged by Departement. I'll therefore need some idea where in France to start looking. Since Alexander was in the textile industry, the Pas de Calais looks to be the most promising starting point.
How did you go about researching your French ancestors?
Any hints would be gratefully received.
Cheers,
Al
ps Just seen your info on the medal card - looks like it could be my Grandfather's cousin. How did a Marine Engineer end up in the Royal Army Medical Corps! ???
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Al!
Just as an aside - on the image I saw for 1901 - Christina looks like she is recorded as "G mother" - which looks like the transriber thought also!
Christine Crighton 56 Grandmother, Grandma Scotland Bootle cum Linacre
RG13/3459 Folio 12 Page 16
I'll look later at the other stuff - when things are a little quieter around here!!
Annie :)
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Just reluctantly shelled out 6 quid at Scotlandspeople and hey presto:
Marriage 1888, Edinburgh:
Alexander Nicol CRIGHTON
Christina MICHIE
So Alexander was back in Scotland by 1888 and Christina from the 1901 was his second wife!
Having trouble with ActiveX on my PC at the moment so I can't see the image (although I've paid to! >:( ).
Cheers,
Al
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I've now seen the image:
Alexander N? CRIGHTON, 64
Factory Manager
Widower
Normal place of residence: British France
+ Names of parents as I have them (both deceased)
Christina MICHIE, 44
Spinster
Interestingly, the first witness was Alfred Gilbert JACKSON, almost certainly a relative of Alexander's first wife Matilda.
So it looks like he just came back to Scotland to get married and then returned to France.
The plot thickens!
Al
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Woo Hoo! I've just printed out the image and it's much clearer. I'm fairly certain now it says for Usual Residence "Dunkirk France". Now where was that site that had Actes de naissance for different communes....?
Al
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Stick with it Al, you are doing a great job! You'll sort them out one day ;D
Dot
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Excellent!!
Why is it that you always find stuff after it's already been found ?? I swear this wasn't here BEFORE you found it!! :P :P :P
Alexander Nicol Crighton
Record Deaths
Age 77
Quarter December
Year 1900
District West Derby
County Lancashire
Volume 8b
Page 281
Annie :)
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Hi Al,
Just some comments.
You mentioned problems with ActiveX and ScotlandsPeople. Have you tried Direct Download? Of the three methods, I wouldn't use anything else! I don't know much about ActiveX but I've been told that the access one has to grant to use the other (Java) method is a real security worry.
I am a very stern critic of SP from time to time myself but I have to come to their defence! It's hardly a rip-off to get a certificate with heaps of information for a measly 6 credits (1 for the search and 5 for the image - one pound 20p) when an English certificate (no search facility) containing skeletal information costs seven quid! But I have to admit that it is easy to get carried away and spend up big on SP - one needs to be very disciplined in one's searches (i.e. do as I say not as I do ;D ).
The thread 'Optimise ScotlandsPeople searches' by David Douglas is well worth reading. See:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43916.0.html
And always check out the IGI first - for example, the IGI had the exact 1823 birthdate, place and middle name of Alexander, and his parents' names. The extracted entries in the IGI taken from the Statutory Register for Scotland for the period 1855 to ca 1875 are particularly good and can save one from spending money unnecessarily on SP.
On SP, a free search for Matilda CR*HTON in the 1861 census brings up only one result - and selecting Dundee as the district finds that's where it is. And you now know from Dorothy that this is your Matilda. And you also know that Matilda had left Dundee by the time of the 1871 census (son John born in France in 1867).
As I understand it you were a bit doubtful about spelling variations. Admittedly, spelling had probably pretty much settled down by >1865 (the period in which, according to the subject line, you are interested) but it certainly varied before then (I have about 90 variants - and counting - in one name I'm researching!).
For instance children of John 'CRIGHTON' and Isabel/Isobel/Isabell/Isabella SINCLAIR (all extracted entries from the IGI, all in Angus) appear under four variant spellings - CRICHTON, CREIGHTON, CRIGHTON, CHRICHTON:
*John CRICHTON, 1821, Eassie & Nevay
*Alexander Nicoll CREIGHTON, 1823, Airlie
*James CRIGHTON, 1825, Glamis
*Margt. CRIGHTON, 1826, Glamis
*Isabell CRICHTON, 1830, Airlie
*William CHRICHTON, 1832, Glamis
*Elizabeth CRICHTON, 1836, Dundee
*John CRIGHTON, 1839, Dundee
In the 1841 census (on FreeCEN - ages of those over 15 supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5; fortunately this enumerator listed Isabella under her maiden surname which they sometimes did in Scotland, especially in 1841) they appear as CRICHTON:
Seagate, Dundee
CRICHTON John, 40, Carter, b Angus
SINCLAIR Isabella, 40, b Angus
CRICHTON Anne, 10, b Angus
CRICHTON John, 2, b Angus
I didn't see an Anne in the IGI - and FamilySearch is down at present.
Did you find the deaths of John and Isabella on SP? - which would take you another generation back (if the informants knew the names of their parents, fathers' occupation, and mothers' maiden surnames). If you find their deaths, it would help restrict your census searches. You could also then (hoping that the parents survived until 1855) look for the deaths of their parents which would take you another generation back.
A free search on SP for the death of an Is* CR*HTON, other name SINCLAIR (married women are indexed under both married and, if known, maiden names) got just one hit. Still in the free search, refining the year range, age range, and spelling found that this was Isabella CRICHTON/SINCLAIR who died 1868 aged 66 - this might or might not be yours.
I suppose you noticed what might be Matilda JACKSON in the 1841 census on FreeCEN.
Hospital Park 7, Dundee
JACKSON James, 35, Labourer, b Angus
SCOTT Helen, 40, b Angus
JACKSON Barbra Scott, 9, b Angus
JACKSON Matilda, 7, b Angus
JACKSON Janet, 5, b Angus
This might or might not be yours. Though earlier I think you said that Matilda's mother was Helen but that her maiden name was ROSS?? (strange that Alexander and Matilda didn't name a daughter Helen ...).
A free search finds only one hit on SP for the death of a Helen JACKSON, other name SCOTT, before 1900 (which seemed a reasonable cut-off date). Refining the parameters (still free) shows that this Helen died in 1880, aged 79. She might or might not be yours. I didn't try other name ROSS.
All the very best,
JAP
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Hi JAP,
Thanks for all your advice and information. I really should be more patient with Scotlandspeople - it's not their fault that I wasted so many credits trying to find my CRIGHTONs when they were in fact in France!
My ggg Grandmother was Helen SCOTT - I don't know where I got ROSS from :-[
Off to check out the death of Isabella SINCLAIR/CRIGHTON on SP before my credits run out again.
Thanks again,
Al
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Just checked out the death record for Isabella - this has to be my ggg Grandmother. The record says that Isabella was the widow of John CRIGHTON, Cloth Packer - the same name & occupation as on my gg Grandparents marriage certificate. Her parent's names also tie up with those I have.
Thanks again JAP,
Regards,
Al
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Hi Al!
D'you think this Isabella could be one of yours??
1891
Sinclair, Isabella 38 Mother-in-law Scotland Bootle
RG12/2970 Folio 133 Page 58
Annie :)
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Hi Al!
D'you think this Isabella could be one of yours??
1891
Sinclair, Isabella 38 Mother-in-law Scotland Bootle
RG12/2970 Folio 133 Page 58
Annie :)
Hi Annie!
It looks very likely that she's one of mine - the name, from Scotland and in the cotton trade! Probably a great niece in-law ??? of my gg Grandmother Isabella. I need to go through the 1891 census for Bootle and find out how far away was Isabella from John, my 1st cousin twice removed who was busy chatting up his landlady in 1891 :o
Cheers,
Al
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Keep an open mind!! I couldn't pass it up - I just had to include it!!
1881
Jackson St Durham
David Crighton 34 Head Dundee Scotland Spinning Mill Overseer Jute & Hemp Manuf
RG11/5043 Folio 38 Page 29
Annie :)
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Thanks Annie!
David Crighton was probably a relative of Alexander, maybe a second cousin. The (extracted) IGI birth records for Dundee & around have a couple of possible candidates for David and I'll see if I can link the parents of either with someone on my tree.
Thanks again,
Al
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Hi Al,
Glad that Isabella CRICHTON other name SINCLAIR who died in 1868 aged 66 was yours and that I didn't send you off wasting your credits!
Somewhere in this thread, you seemed to indicate that you didn't have the marriage date of James SINCLAIR and Martha JACK. It's in the IGI. The following are all extracted entries, all in Eassie & Nevay.
James SINCLAIR m Martha JACK 15 Aug 1795
They had:
*Isobel SINCLAIR bap 16 Aug 1796 (Isabella's age understated at her death, but correct in the 1851 census - where she was 54 and born Eassie)
*Margret SINCLAIR bap 1 May 1798
*John SINCLAIR b 18 Jun, bap 22 Jun 1800
*Ann SINCLAIR b 14 Dec, bap 19 Dec 1802
*Alexander SINCLAIR b 14 Mar, bap 17 Mar 1805
I hope that the Helen JACKSON, other name SCOTT, who died in 1880 aged 79 is also yours!
The following are all extracted entries from the IGI, all in Dundee.
James JACKSON m Helen SCOTT 15 Dec 1827
They had:
Thomas JACKSON b 29 Feb, bap 16 Mar 1828
James JACKSON b 25 Nov, bap 5 Dec 1830
Barbara Scott JACKSON b 11 Mar, bap 25 Mar 1832
Matilda Sturrock JACKSON b 25 Apr, bap 13 May 1834
Janet JACKSON b 8 Jun, bap 3 Jul 1836
There are submitted entries in the IGI for Helen SCOTT's baptism (3 Dec 1800, parents James SCOTT and Elizabeth IRELAND) in Murroes (her birthplace according to the 1851 census where her age is given as 50). The submission looks pretty reliable.
James SCOTT and Elizabeth IRELAND had in Murroes (extracted entries):
John SCOTT bap 6 Sep 1795
Barbara SCOTT bap 11 Jul 1809
Matilda SCOTT bap 1 Mar 1812
(There are also submitted entries for the following James 1791, Agnes 1793, Helen 1800, David 1805)
It seems that Helen (SCOTT) JACKSON named two of her children after her sisters. - Barbara and Matilda are not particularly common names.
In the IGI there's a marriage (extracted) of a Matilda SCOTT to a Peter STURROCK, 13 Sep 1831, Dundee. At least this explains your Matilda's middle name of Sturrock! The IGI has this couple having a Matilda b 1833 Dundee, and a Peter bap 1834 Liff.
The family is in the 1841 census on FreeCEN - Peter STURROCK 30 Weaver, Matilda 28 Dressmaker, Matilda 8, Peter 6, John 4.
I tried to find the death of Martha (JACK) SINCLAIR on the SP free search but without success. There is one Martha SINCLAIR of an appropriate age who died in 1855 but whether this is Martha JACK or a different Martha SINCLAIR I don't know. Your Martha (77 in 1851) might well have died between the 1851 census and the start of Statutory Registration in 1855.
JAP
PS: A search for Eassie in Google Images brings up some interesting hits.
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Hi JAP,
Thanks for the advice and information. I did some (more disciplined than usual :-[) searching on SP yesterday filling in some holes in my family tree and think I really got my £6 worth! I found the deaths of James JACKSON, John CRIGHTON & Helen SCOTT and confirmed/found the names of their parents so I now have all 8 great Grandparents of my g Grandmother Matilda CRIGHTON! All these details tie in with what you found in the IGI.
I didn't have the SCOTT children and it's interesting to find out how the name Matilda came into the family. My gg Grandmother, g Grandmother and 1st Cousin twice removed were all called Matilda!
I'll have to have a good look at the IGI and see how many more records I can tie up.
Still looking for the movements of my CRIGHTON ancestors in France, especially my g Grandmother, Matilda CRIGHTON and the birth of her son (my Grandfather) John. I posted on the Généalogie Nord Pas-de-Calais web site on Monday asking for lookups in the Dunkirk BMD records and I had a response from a kind soul called José who looked through the records for me but found no trace of any CRIGHTONs between 1866 & 1892. The French records are much harder to search than the Scottish & English records as they're organised by town and the indexes are for 10 years. I think there are some county (departament) records as well but I'm still investigating. I'll never complain about SP or Ancestry again!
Thanks again,
Regards,
Al
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Hi Al!
I came across this French site - no "Crighton's" but there are "Crichton's" :)
D'you want to try it??
http://tinyurl.com/ded9m
Annie :)
These also!!
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/AngloScots/
http://www.fdca.org.uk/poor_index.htm
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Hi Annie!,
Great Links!
The CRICHTON on the French site is one or two departaments to the West of where I was looking for my CRIGHTONs so I perhaps I need to widen my research. There's a link to a forum the looks like it might be worth joining.
The Dundee burial reocrds on the site from the 3rd link are particularly interesting; there are lots of CRICHTONs with names & dates which could tie up with my ancestors - I need to have a look at these in more detail. There's also a JACKSON, son of a weaver, born in Ireland who could be a relative of my 3xg Grandfather James JACKSON (Matilda's maternal Grandfather) who was also born in Ireland. The best bit is that it gives a county of birth - just what I need to try finding my Irish roots!
Thanks again Annie,
Regards,
Al
ps With 59 replies his thread is now the longest on the Angus board. The next longest has just 13. I know you love these statistics! ;)
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ps With 59 replies his thread is now the longest on the Angus board. The next longest has just 13. I know you love these statistics!
And your point is ............... ??? ???
-
Al!
Would this be any good to you? I'm not sure what's available - I assume the same information that's on other Archive sites !!
http://www.archivesdefrance.culture.gouv.fr/
Annie :)
-
Merci Annie!
A bientôt,
Al
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de nada !! ....... ::)
By the way - did you notice someboby's looking for the Nicol family ???
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,100974.0.html
Annie :)
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By the way - did you notice someboby's looking for the Nicol family ???
Annie :)
Yes I did! Although I can't yet work out where Alexander got the middle name Nichol from. I thought his Grandparents might have been John CRIGHTON & Jean NICHOL from an IGI entry but the death record for Alexander's father John CRIGHTON from SP has:
"Husband of Isabella SINCLAIR, Parents: John CRIGHTON & Margaret STEEL"
Isabella SINCLAIR was definitely Alexander's mother and the John CRICHTON, son of John CRICHTON & Jean NICHOL was born the same year as Alexander's father John (Son of John CRIGHTON & Margaret STEEL).
All these IGI entries are extracted ones.
Confused? So am I!
Cheers,
Al
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Al,
Familysearch is down at present so I can't search just now.
Could it be that the entry on the death cert is incorrect? It does happen ;)
Perhaps John (father of John and grandfather of Alexander) might have had John with Jean NICHOL, then Jean died and John snr married Margaret STEEL. If this were the case, the informant might not have known that there had been a previous wife??
JAP
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Hi JAP,
Funnily enough the possibility of a second marriage occurred to me as I was replying to Annie's post yesterday and like you, I found that Familysearch was down and still it appears to be. According to the death certificate, Alexander reported the death of his father John and it is entirely possible that he didn't know who his grandmother was. The only thing against this hypothesis is that the IGI has 2 extracted records for births of John CRIGHTON/CRICHTON in 1799 - one the son of Margaret STEEL & the other the son of Jean NICHOL. ???
Regards,
Al
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Sorry Al, had FamilySearch been up, I would have seen the two entries. So it's clearly just a coincidence.
Alexander's middle name of Nicoll might have come from a more distant relative, or a friend of his parents, or the minister, or ....
The parentage of Alexander's father, John CRICHTON as given on the death cert (i.e. mother Margaret STEEL) is right as is shown by John's birthplace of Airlie (on the 1851 census information provided by Dorothy earlier in this thread); John CRICHTON b 1798 with mother Jean NICOLL, was, on the other hand, bap Dundee according to the IGI.
John CRICHTON m Margaret STEEL, 14 Apr 1782, Airlie
They had, all extracted entries, all spelled CRICHTON, and all in Airlie:
Issabel, bap 17 Mar 1783
Elisabeth, bap 5 Apr 1784
Agnes, bap 2 May 1785
Margaret, bap 28 Jan 1787
William, bap 27 Jun 1797
John, bap 29 Jun 1799
George, bap 4 Dec 1800
(Another of those families with an unexplained gap - this time from 1787 to 1799).
JAP
-
Al!
Couldn't have been involved with these could he ???
1792-1802 French Revolutionary Wars
Annie :)
-
Annie!
As far as I know, Alexander (b. 1824) was the first CRIGHTON to venture over to the other side of the Channel but nothing would surprise me with my ancestors!
So your thinking is that Alexander's grandfather uprooted himself from Airlie to go and help Robspierre cut off a few heads and that's why he produced no issue between 1787 & 1797.
Any idea how I would find out?
Cheers,
Al :)
-
And now for something completely different .......... ::)
http://tinyurl.com/djr22
and click .... 1: fiche(s)
Annie
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Thanks Annie!
This Maurice CRIGHTON could well be a decendent of Alexander's son James who appears to have married and stayed in France.
I know a little about French naturalisation from my time in France 10-15 years ago. The children of an English mother and French father that I knew had to decide at the age of 18 whether they wanted British or French nationality since at that time the French authorities did not recognise dual nationality.
I might just stump up the 23€ they want for 54 units which means I'd have 53 left over. Can I help you find any of your French ancestors with my spare 53 units?
Cheers,
Al
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Hi Al!!
I'm not sure about exchange rates these days .... is that a lot of money ???
I wonder what you would get - did it say? and I wonder if it would give more information ... sounds exciting to me - but then if he's not yours ......... :-\
if it was me - I'd go for it - but as always - I'm so good at wasting money ...... ;)
I have no idea right now what I need ( you know me - disorganised Annie !!!! ) - is there a time limit? plus you never know you might need them yourself to go forwards!!
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Hi Annie,
23€ is about US$28 or 15 quid. The units are valid for 1 year and they charge 1 unit for each name in the document. My guess is that un acte de naturalisation would have 3 or 4 names (the individual, parents and possibly the wife if naturalisation was being sought through marriage). This means that 23€ would buy access to 10-15 documents, on a par with Scotlandspeople's costs and much cheaper than a priority certificate from the GRO (sorry Annie, couldn't resist slipping that one in ;) ).
Let me know when you get yourself organised with your French ancestors and I'll let you know when I have my units from Votre Nom dans L'Histoire.
Regards,
Al
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Sounds good to me Big Guy!!
Enjoy your search - how exciting ;) ;) ;)
Annie :)
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Hi, I'm new to this thread, but since I'm a Crighton and my dad is from England, I thought I should get in on this. My grandad is Clifford Crighton, and his father was Samuel Crighton. Samuel fought in World War I.
I just received a picture of him today from 1917. I don't know where I can go from there. I don't know much more about that side of the family. If you have any suggestions, I'd appreciate it.
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Hi Fellow Crighton,
Welcome to Rootschat! If your g grandfather fought in WWI it's very possible that he would appear in the 1901 census. I've found 3 Samuel CRIGHTONs in the 1901 census, 2 of whom would have been of the right age to have fought in WWI:
Samuel CRIGHTON, Living in Bootle, Lancashire, aged 10, born Seacomb, Cheshire, Father: Richard C CRIGHTON (born Liverpool)
Samuel CRIGHTON, Living in Bournmouth, aged 11, born Portsmouth, Father: George CRIGHTON (born Kent)
Could either of these be your g grandfather?
The National Archives site (www.nationalarchives.gov.uk) has 2 WWI campaign medal cards for Samuel CRIGHTON, one from the Argyl & Southern Highlanders and one from the Army Service Corps, Cheshire Regiment Territorial Force.
Regards,
Al
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Al - I just came across this thread - wonder if it would help you ???
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,78269.0.html
Annie :)
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Thanks Annie!
I saw the thread you mentioned a little while ago. I'm not alone in finding that if you don't know exactly where your ancestors were born or living in France then it's damned difficult to track them down!
Cheers,
Al
-
Have you been here Al?
I scanned the thread but didn't see it - but you know me ???
http://tinyurl.com/zlrzc
Annie :)
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Thanks Annie,
1837online has the indexes for these records and there is no sign of my CRIGHTONs. It's not clear to me whether all registrations of British births overseas would be with the British Consul or just those for England & Wales. There's something in the Scottish records called Minor Records that also appear to include registrations of Scots born overseas but I've included these in my searches on Scotlandspeople and not come up with anything there either. :(
Il faut chercher encore en France!
Cheers,
Al
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Hi Al !!
I'm fed up with France now ..... it's ticking me off !! ::) ::) ::) can't find nothing ........ ::)
SO -
I was talking to JAP about something else - and she gave me this site - I don't think you've tried this one ...... !! it's fascinating .... you'll love it !! .... try it !!
( Hope you don't mind JAP !! )
http://www.talkingscot.com/
Annie :) :) :)
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Hi Al !!
I'm fed up with France now ..... it's ticking me off !! ::) ::) ::) can't find nothing ........ ::)
SO -
I was talking to JAP about something else - and she gave me this site - I don't think you've tried this one ...... !! it's fascinating .... you'll love it !! .... try it !!
( Hope you don't mind JAP !! )
http://www.talkingscot.com/
Annie :) :) :)
Hello Annie,
We-e-ell ...
I do tend to be a bit careful and not advertise, on RootsChat, any other bulletin board which covers an area which is already covered by RC (I mentioned the other site in my PM for a specific reason). However, I'm sure that RC is so big and so big-hearted that nobody will mind at all ;D ;D
JAP
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Thanks Annie & JAP,
There seems to be a lot of stuff on the site you mentioned, will have to do some trawling.
Regards,
Al
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COULD YOU PLEASE HELP ME JUST IN CASE WE ARE RELATED
My name is Kathleen Crighton
My grandfather was William crighton married to Elizabeth Cook and had
3 children ELISABETH,THOMAS AND MY FATHER WILLIAM (all 3 born in Dundee
My family House in Dundee is In Lochee
I am trying to find who my relatives are since before my father died in Hertfordshire England in 1995 told me that I have many relatives all over the world]
pLS HELP
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Hi Kathleen,
Sorry for not replying sooner, I haven't been on Rootschat for a while. Do you have any dates (Birth, Marriage) for your grandfather? As you'll see from this thread, my ancestors left Dundee around 1866 so if we are related, the link would probably be a couple of generations further back from your grandfather.
Let me know what information you have and I'll see what I can find.
Regards,
Al
ps I made a breakthrough this week on locating my ancestors in France! The 10 year BMD indexes for the North of France have just become available on line and I managed to find the birth records for two of my G Grandmother's brothers. These indexes are for a specific town so I'm owrking my way out from Dunkirk town by town to see what else I can find.
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hallo Al
My granfather was born around 1895 ,his full name was william Jaffrey Crighton
my father william crighton (who by the way is famous in Greece since he wrote a greek english dictionary)was born in Dundee in 14/12/1923
Unfortunatelly I have no more details apart from the fact that my grandmother was Irish and her family name was cook
Thank you for all your help,will be really funny if we are related
If it is any help I think I have an uncle in Dundee who has a pub,his name is peter and has i think 2 daughters either solicitors or baristers
I think he had an accident in war world 2.My father was in the army in world war 2 as well and fought in Greece,italy and africa.In greece he met my mother
and he remained here until 1975.we returned in uk then and my family house is in Hertfordshire
I have my fathers brother and sister (thomas cook Crighton,and eliza crighton
still alive in lochee dundee but they are very old and cannot help me
Thanks again
Kathleen
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Hi Kathleen,
This is what I've been able to find from the scottish records:
Your grandfather William Jaffray CRIGHTON married Eliza COOK, in the St. Andrews District of Dundee in 1915.
William Jaffray CRIGHTON was born on April 6th 1895 also in the St. Andrews District of Dundee. His parents were William CRIGHTON (born 25th Sept 1865) and Catherine (Nee DOWNS).
Willam CRIGHTON's parents (W. J. CRIGHTON's paternal grandparents) were David CRICHTON (I have these same CRIGHTON/CRICHTON spelling changes in the records for my ancestors!) and Elizabeth (nee FRAZER) and they were married in Dundee in 1864.
David CRICHTON's parents were William and Helen (nee GIBSON). Helen was deceased by the time David married in 1864.
That's as far as I've been able to go back and I haven't been able to find a link with my ancestors but I'll keep looking. It looks like if we are related, the link is even further back than your ggg grandfather!
Regards,
Al