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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Rosie May on Thursday 03 May 12 20:08 BST (UK)

Title: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Thursday 03 May 12 20:08 BST (UK)

I have  traced my ancestor from birth 1865 born in Leith, Edinburgh

His name is John McGoochan

I have him on the 1871 census, aged 6,

also on 1881 aged 16 in Parkhead Reformatory, Shettleston, Lanarkshire

In 1889 he married Isabella Lawson

FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS I CANNOT FIND HIM

In 1901 he appears on the census in H.M. Prison Greenside, Midlothian

I believe he died aged 48 in 1910 in the Poor House, Craiglockhart

Any help please in finding these missing ten years??

Rosie

Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 04 May 12 09:14 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie

Frustrating when you have these gaps!

Did John and wife have children during this 10 yr period that might provide some clues regarding location etc.? Have you found his wife Isabella in 1891/1901?

Monica  :)
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: apanderson on Friday 04 May 12 10:18 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,

Do you have a copy of John & Isabella's marriage registration and if so, where did they marry?

Anne
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Sunday 06 May 12 00:54 BST (UK)
Hi Monica  and Anne

 Thank you both for your input.

- the information I have is, I'm afraid, very little.  I only know they had one child called Sarah but don't know the date or the location.

As for wife Isabella, I hadn't been able to find her in the census until I remembered she was known as 'Lilly' so I started looking for her under this name.

I found a Lilly McGoochan in the 1891 census which surely must be her.

She is an 'Inmate'  at 15 Duncan Street, Edinburgh, Occupation Laundress.

In this instance what does 'Inmate' actually refer to?  If this was a
building  she was working in as a Laundress, surely she would not be referred to as an 'Inmate' would she?  Or is this place some kind of Institution?

Any help would be gratefully received.

Thanking you both.

Rosie :)
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: down-under on Sunday 06 May 12 02:24 BST (UK)
Hello

Lilly is in a home with lots of other women except for the Matron and the male book-keeper/Superintendant 7 women are listed servants/laundress the rest are inmates/laundress



1891 Lillys birthplace is Dumfrieshire is this correct?


Pam
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 06 May 12 08:59 BST (UK)
Lily looks to have fallen on hard times around that period post the marriage  :-\ I don't think the Laundry falls into the larger workhouses of the Edinburgh area listings (see the Scottish/Midlothian entries here www.workhouses.org.uk). However, it does look to have been run in that way.... The laundry looks to have changed hands c. 1896 - see here www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/issues/10842/pages/1339/page.pdf - second notice on the l/h column.

I wonder if this is their child Sarah in 1901:

Sarah McGoochan, 12, inmate, b. Leith, Edinburgh
Address: Nazareth House, Claremont Street Aberdeen

Monica
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Sunday 06 May 12 13:40 BST (UK)
Anne , sorry I notice I didn't answer your question re John and Isabella's place of marriage.

It was Newington, Edinburgh.

Thank you Pam for your input and I'm afraid I dont know for sure Lilly's birth place.

Monica thank you also for your information, and the Sarah McGoochan you mention in Nazareth House in 1901 I always believed was Sarah Conroy McGoochan born 1888 whose father James was the brother of John McGoochan, (Lilly's husband) and was the father of Sarah.

I remember writing to Nazareth House and they sent me the record for Sarah.  I have now been searching for it but cant find it, but am sure it mentioned the parents of Sarah as being James McGoochan and Annie Conroy.

I haven't worked on the McGoochan side of my family for a couple of years, as I was concentrating on my other side so I am a little stale now on what information I had collected on them. I kept meaning to put my piles of papers in order but never seemed to get around to it, hence I cant find anything!

I will look again.  In the meantime, thank you all very much for your help and I will get back when I can.

(Things have been made more difficult by the various spellings of the surname McGoochan - e.g.McGoohan/McGougan/McGouchan/McGonchan

Rosie
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 06 May 12 13:42 BST (UK)
Rosie, there is a RootsChat member who has also worked long and hard with her McGoochan line from Midlothian and Ireland. Have you seen her posts?

Monica

Added: This is one of Lynda's posts for example www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,325167.0.html
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Sunday 06 May 12 14:07 BST (UK)
Hi Monica - yes Lynda is my cousin and we worked together on our McGoochans a couple of years ago. Reading through the link you sent reminded me how very  excited she was when you all finally found her 'missing' piece of the gigsaw.

On the marriage cert.  (1887) of John McGOOHAN and Isabella Lawson her father is down as John Lawson, clerk (deceased) and mother Catherine m.s. (looks something like Newcome)

On death cert for Isabella Lillian BURKE is states 1) widow of John McGOUGAN, 2) James Burke, coal miner

but Lilly's parents are down as William grocer, (deceased) and Catherine m.s. Donaldson (deceased)
Witness is daughter Sarah McPhail of 29 Turin Street, Belfast, Ireland
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 06 May 12 14:31 BST (UK)
You're Linda's cousin  :D I remember her always saying that all (or nearly all  ;)) McGoogans from Edinburgh area were connected...which is what made me think of her!

Re Isabella Lillian, have you found her on any census apart from 1891? I am guessing her life is also a bit complicated perhaps?

Regarding the parents' names she gave or were given for her at death, all a bit confusing isn't  :-\ She could have been illegitimate perhaps.... Entries such as this perhaps for births:

Isabella DONALDSON b. 21 Sept. 1862 in Torthorwald, Dumfries. Mother Catherine DONALDSON

Where did Isabella Lilly die? Was it in Ireland or Scotland?

With daughter Sarah showing an Irish address, any luck following through on that?

Monica  :)
   

Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 06 May 12 15:04 BST (UK)
Rosie, not sure what is contained in this file from NAS. If you search on their site here www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/ - just put mcgoogan between dates 1870-1915 and up comes one entry:

SC58/50/23 - criminal record between 28 Mar 1890-13 Jan 1897

This listing includes the name of John McGoogan, 31 Jul 1896.

These items have to be view on site or arrangements made for copies to be sent out.

Monica
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Sunday 06 May 12 15:11 BST (UK)
Hi again Monica

No I haven't been able to definitely find her on any of the census, apart from 1891.  There seems to be so many Isabella Dawsons around, born Scotland, England and Ireland so I dont know which one it could be as I have so little info on her.

Never thought of the illegitimate theory - quite possible.  Will have to look into that.

Isabella died in the district of Kelvin in Glasgow.

No I havent gone any further in trying to trace the daughter Sarah McPhail in Ireland as yet.

It seems I have a whole lot of work to do!

OOPS...just about to POST this when your other one came through.  Thank you so much will look into that right now.

Thanks again  :)
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 06 May 12 15:17 BST (UK)
Dawson or Lawson...?!

Monica
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Sunday 06 May 12 15:43 BST (UK)
Sorry Monica - typing error - I meant Lawson!

Have looked at the link you mentioned for the NAS .  Seems there is another McGoohan listed for assault and robbery, sentenced to 8 years and with previous convictions for assault.

This family seems to have quite a few bad boys among them.

I am just going to make enquiries now about ordering through the post to NAS

Thank you for your help

Rosie :D
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: sancti on Sunday 06 May 12 17:23 BST (UK)
Checking for Poor Relief applications may give more early history of the family
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Wednesday 16 May 12 19:54 BST (UK)
Hi Sancti - how/where exactly can I find these records please?

Rosie
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: sancti on Wednesday 16 May 12 21:43 BST (UK)
They are held in the Mitchell

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/Library_Services/The_Mitchell/Archives/poorlawarchives.htm
Title: Re: Help Please - Where is he on the 1891 census?
Post by: Rosie May on Thursday 17 May 12 18:40 BST (UK)

Many thanks - I will take a look.

Rosie :)