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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: lyn22 on Wednesday 02 May 12 01:30 BST (UK)
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James Burke and wife Lucy came to Australia from England in the 1870s but I am having trouble finding what ship they came on Thanks Lynette
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Hi Lynette,
Do you know which of the colonies they migrated to? Each of the six colonies maintained their own records.
Cheers, JM
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Hi
It would also help if we knew their dates of birth, approximately, where they were born. If you know where they settled and then where they died would help too. Just looking for James Burke in the 1870's I can see quite a few.
mum mum
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I believe James was the son of Peter & Bridget Burke, he was born 1851 in Coventry London. According to 1851 census.
There is mention of a James and Lucy Burke in NSW (newcastle) but of course he could be one of hundreds.
Off Lyn22 post in Ireland thread.
Neil
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Hi
From a family tree, married 1870 in Coventry, their first child born in NSW is 1877 in Sydney so we are looking for an arrival most likely NSW between then.
mum mum
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Hi there,
I have found an entry for the arrival of a James Burke and a Mrs Burke on December 31 1873 on board the Alexandra,arriving in Melbourne NSW,
with no first name given for Mrs Burke its hard to determine if they are yours, hope it helps ?
Dovely.
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Hi there,
I have found an entry for the arrival of a James Burke and a Mrs Burke on December 31 1873 on board the Alexandra,arriving in Melbourne NSW,
with no first name given for Mrs Burke its hard to determine if they are yours, hope it helps ?
Dovely.
The Alexandra was travelling from Melbourne to Sydney (in NSW) in 1873.
Debra :)
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From the Melbourne Argus 1st October 1900. Deaths Columns.
Modified,From the Argus melbourne 1/10/1900
Lucy Burke on The 20th September at her residence 14 Lothian Street North Melbourne (after a short illness)Lucy Burke aged 49 the beloved wife of James and formerly of Coventry Warwickshire England. RIP
So they may have came and stayed in Melbourne if this is correct Lucy. ???
Neil
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And James Burke the husband of Lucy (as mentioned by Neil) dies in 1901
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article10568389
cheers,
Ros
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Neil, what is the mention of them in Newcastle, NSW?
NSW BMD index shows a number of births in NSW, the names of which correspond with those listed in the death notice. The births are registered in Redfern, Newcastle, Goulburn so the mention you found may well be the correct couple.
These births indicate that they possibly entered Australia into Sydney.
PROV holds Administration papers for the estates of both James and Lucy but are not public. His occupation is listed as an engineer, and they were residing in North Melbourne- as shown in the death notice.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=54
Judith
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Thank you all so much for taking your time to help me it is much appreciated you have found me some great info James was born 02/02/1851 Coventry and died 25 /08/ 1901 at North Melbourne Lucy was born on 15/11/1850 at Coventry died 28/09/1900 at North Melbourne. They arrived in New South Wales in the mid 1870s but I am after the name of the ship they had six children all born in N.S.W .
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Well strangely enough, I think they arrived in Melbourne. Went to NSW, did not settle but seem to have chased work all over. Had all their children. Then went back to Melbourne and died there.
Now to get the Ship's name. ???
They dont seem to be on assisted or unassisted passenger lists?
Neil
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That sounds interesting I haven't thought about them starting off in Melbourne I know another family member wrote a small book called Dominick and Peter Burke County Mayo to Coventry which I haven't got but I remember something in it about the Navy UK I think James may have been in the Navy could he have come to Australia on a Navy ship. Thanks for taking the time to help much appreciated
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Sorry I did not mention the Navy before but I just had a memory of it
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Hi
Both Lucy and James dcs should note 'how long in the Colonies' so perhaps James was the informant on Lucy's and I would suggest checking that dc will give clear info to deduce their arrival year and Colony.
Cheers JM
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I was thinking that they did not start having children until 1877 so went looking for why.
I have found a James Burke arrived New Zealand 3rd march 1875 via ship India
he was single gives his place of birth as Cork Ireland and age as 23. The ship departed November 1874 and landed at Auckland. His occupation was given as a Currier.
This is from family search.
Digital Folder Number: 4412880
Image Number: 00013
Now I dont know if it is even the right James but may explain why we cannot find him on Australian passenger lists.
Neil
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His employment according to the PROV wills index was 'engineer'. This can mean anything from a train driver up to a much more sophisticated position. It would be interesting to know what kind of engineer he was.
Finding how long they had been in Oz from death certificates amy prove problematic as, if my memory is correct (possibly not :-\), the question asked is "How long in the colony?" which means sometimes that the answer only relates to the colony in which the death took place and discounts time spent in other colonies. As his death was after Federation the information may be more useful.
Do we have a marriage for them?
Judith
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Hi there,
I read that Lucy's death was in 1900, and that James was 1901. I am assuming that James was the informant or at least the source for the informant named on Lucy's d.c. and I hope that James would know his and her year/s of arrival in the Colonies.
On several NSW d.c.s and on a couple of Qld dcs that relate to my own forebears, I have found that the informants must have been asked specific questions re each of the colonies.... eg on a 1893 d.c. (NSW) it gives me "2 years Victoria, 31 years Qld, 17 months NSW".
The online index for Vic deaths gives: 1900, Lucy Burke, Hotham Vic, aged 49, dau of Thos Jos DYKE and Hanorah SMALLWOOD, Registration number: 9456
So the informant for Lucy's death knew not just Lucy's maiden name but also her mother's maiden name.
Cheers, JM
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From a SUBMITTED public tree at Ancestry (so it needs to be verified)
Lucy DYKE married James BURKE on 24 October 1870, at Coventry, England.
It seems to be GRO ref Vol 6d page 742 for Coventry Warwickshire, registered 4th Quarter of 1870.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Cheers, JM
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Hi, In the 1871 census she is at home at Hill Street Coventry St John Warwickshire with Parents Thomas 49 and Hannah 47 (not much of a stretch) with brothers. Henry 14, Stephen 8 and sisters Catherine 12, Agatha 10.
I am sure I dont know how she was married and listed as single at the same time ???
But as Majm stated facts on ancestry trees need to be verified.
Still cannot reconcile first child 1877, there has to be a reason! I wonder if James left for other parts.
Neil
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Hi, In the 1871 census she is at home at Hill Street Coventry St John Warwickshire with Parents Thomas 49 and Hannah 47 (not much of a stretch) with brothers. Henry 14, Stephen 8 and sisters Catherine 12, Agatha 10.
I am sure I dont know how she was married and listed as single at the same time ???
But as Majm stated facts on ancestry trees need to be verified.
Still cannot reconcile first child 1877, there has to be a reason! I wonder if James left for other parts.
Neil
Lucy is enumerated as being married in 1871. Obviously her married surname was not recorded so she has just been dittoed (is there such a word?) with the rest of the family.
Debra :)
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Sorry I did not mention the Navy before but I just had a memory of it
::) ::)
James was born 02/02/1851 Coventry Do you know if this is definitely correct?
From UK archives:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8362711&queryType=1&resultcount=39
Name Burke, James
Place of Birth: St Michael, Warwick
Continuous Service Number: 37328A
Date of Volunteering: 25 June 1866
Date: 02 February 1851
Catalogue reference: ADM 139/774
Dept: Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series: Admiralty: Royal Navy Continuous Service Engagement Books
Piece: 37301A - 37400A
Even though it is not stated anywhere on the website, of the 4 records that I have downloaded from this record series the "Date" reference has always been their date of birth.
This record can be downloaded very cheaply from the above link.
Debra :)
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Well Found Debra
Re St Michael/Coventry
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WAR/CoventryStMichael/index.html
Cheers, JM
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I was thinking that they did not start having children until 1877 so went looking for why.
I have found a James Burke arrived New Zealand 3rd march 1875 via ship India
he was single gives his place of birth as Cork Ireland and age as 23. The ship departed November 1874 and landed at Auckland. His occupation was given as a Currier.
This is from family search.
Digital Folder Number: 4412880
Image Number: 00013
Now I dont know if it is even the right James but may explain why we cannot find him on Australian passenger lists.
Neil
I am not sure if this could be the right James but I have that he married Lucy in 1870 at Coventry so she may have came here on her own
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Hi there,
I read that Lucy's death was in 1900, and that James was 1901. I am assuming that James was the informant or at least the source for the informant named on Lucy's d.c. and I hope that James would know his and her year/s of arrival in the Colonies.
On several NSW d.c.s and on a couple of Qld dcs that relate to my own forebears, I have found that the informants must have been asked specific questions re each of the colonies.... eg on a 1893 d.c. (NSW) it gives me "2 years Victoria, 31 years Qld, 17 months NSW".
The online index for Vic deaths gives: 1900, Lucy Burke, Hotham Vic, aged 49, dau of Thos Jos DYKE and Hanorah SMALLWOOD, Registration number: 9456
So the informant for Lucy's death knew not just Lucy's maiden name but also her mother's maiden name.
Cheers, JM
Thankyou I have Lucy's parents as Thomas Joseph and Ann Dyke nee Smallwood so I will look at Hanorah Smallwood instead of Ann
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Sorry I did not mention the Navy before but I just had a memory of it
::) ::)
James was born 02/02/1851 Coventry Do you know if this is definitely correct?
From UK archives:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=8362711&queryType=1&resultcount=39
Name Burke, James
Place of Birth: St Michael, Warwick
Continuous Service Number: 37328A
Date of Volunteering: 25 June 1866
Date: 02 February 1851
Catalogue reference: ADM 139/774
Dept: Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series: Admiralty: Royal Navy Continuous Service Engagement Books
Piece: 37301A - 37400A
Even though it is not stated anywhere on the website, of the 4 records that I have downloaded from this record series the "Date" reference has always been their date of birth.
This record can be downloaded very cheaply from the above link.
Debra :)Thankyou so much for your time I will check this out
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Do you have the image of Lucy's death registration?
Cheers JM
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No I dont have any paperwork only information I have from a cousin who stated doing a family tree Thanks Lynette
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As it seems Mr James Burke was in some sort of Military position possibly as a ships engineer, could his wife Lucy have been brought out here by the Navy. ???
There are no referances to either in any form of shipping but they did come by 1877. So they didn't swim! That seems to be the only practical recourse.
Maybe there are records of these transfers.
It would have been nice if lyn22 had told us everything she knew about them prior to our searching!
Neil
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Hey Neil,
If they told us everything it wouldn't be half as much fun filling in the blanks. :D
I too found records of a James Burke, Able Seaman in and out of Sydney in the early 70's, could be the same guy.
mum mum
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James Burke and wife Lucy came to Australia from England in the 1870s but I am having trouble finding what ship they came on Thanks Lynette
Do you have the image of Lucy's death registration?
No I dont have any paperwork only information I have from a cousin who stated doing a family tree Thanks Lynette
Hi there,
May I again suggest that you consider obtaining a copy of Lucy’s d.c. The information that should be on that document is summarised on one of the threads on RChat’s Resource Board for Victoria. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
It includes:
Deaths
Date and place of death;
name and surname;
occupation of the deceased;
sex and age;
cause of death,
duration of illness,
medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
when and where buried,
undertaker whom certified;
name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or states (stating which),
name of spouse,
place of marriage,
age at marriage;
names and ages of children of the deceased.
Your cousin may well have the dc, or perhaps you can share the cost. It is $17.50 Au. And can be downloaded immediately from this link: Use the reference no. 9456 as per reply #17 as that helps save you some of the cost.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
You may wish to consider sharing that image with an ongoing project http://ausbdm.ucoz.org
James Burke’s dc can be obtained the same way. It is reference no. 10670.
You can then validate the information you have already obtained about James and Lucy’s children, Lucy’s parentage, and you should be able to establish WHEN Lucy arrived in the Colonies. Of course, that particular question is the thrust of your request here at RChat.
Cheers, JM
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James Burke and wife Lucy came to Australia from England in the 1870s but I am having trouble finding what ship they came on Thanks Lynette
Do you have the image of Lucy's death registration?
No I dont have any paperwork only information I have from a cousin who stated doing a family tree Thanks Lynette
Hi there,
May I again suggest that you consider obtaining a copy of Lucy’s d.c. The information that should be on that document is summarised on one of the threads on RChat’s Resource Board for Victoria. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
It includes:
Deaths
Date and place of death;
name and surname;
occupation of the deceased;
sex and age;
cause of death,
duration of illness,
medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
when and where buried,
undertaker whom certified;
name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or states (stating which),
name of spouse,
place of marriage,
age at marriage;
names and ages of children of the deceased.
Your cousin may well have the dc, or perhaps you can share the cost. It is $17.50 Au. And can be downloaded immediately from this link: Use the reference no. 9456 as per reply #17 as that helps save you some of the cost.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
You may wish to consider sharing that image with an ongoing project http://ausbdm.ucoz.org
James Burke’s dc can be obtained the same way. It is reference no. 10670.
You can then validate the information you have already obtained about James and Lucy’s children, Lucy’s parentage, and you should be able to establish WHEN Lucy arrived in the Colonies. Of course, that particular question is the thrust of your request here at RChat.
Cheers, JM
Thankyou JM for all your help it is much appreciatted I am only new to this forum and researching my family tree Thanks again Lynette
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As it seems Mr James Burke was in some sort of Military position possibly as a ships engineer, could his wife Lucy have been brought out here by the Navy. ???
There are no referances to either in any form of shipping but they did come by 1877. So they didn't swim! That seems to be the only practical recourse.
Maybe there are records of these transfers.
It would have been nice if lyn22 had told us everything she knew about them prior to our searching!
Neil Thanks Neal and everyone for helping me I am only new to the forum and doing my family tree and hope I did not waste anyone time
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Once Upon A Time, JM was also new to this forum ;D and decades before that JM was new to family history, long before it was a popular pastime. JM has been helped all along the way, and sometimes JM still needs help too, and I am not ever afraid to ask for help, or to admit to my known mistookens ;D ;D.
So, it is grand to have been able to help, and hopefully to be able to continue to help. But what is grander is that you are so willing to say that magic word 'Thanks".
So, Thanks from me to you too.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Lyn22, I hope you did not take offence at my verbalising my thoughts. I too enjoy filling in the blanks and also not that long ago was a very newcomer, who has made every mistake in the books. :-[
I am probably not as patient as I should be at times and am given to sticking my foot in my mouth, probably how I hurt my back ;D
I hope you have gained something from this experience, I know I have. I look forward to having many chats on this forum.
Neil
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Once Upon A Time, JM was also new to this forum ;D and decades before that JM was new to family history, long before it was a popular pastime. JM has been helped all along the way, and sometimes JM still needs help too, and I am not ever afraid to ask for help, or to admit to my known mistookens ;D ;D.
So, it is grand to have been able to help, and hopefully to be able to continue to help. But what is grander is that you are so willing to say that magic word 'Thanks".
So, Thanks from me to you too.
Cheers, JM
Thanks JM we all get there in the end always learning something new
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Hi Lyn22, I hope you did not take offence at my verbalising my thoughts. I too enjoy filling in the blanks and also not that long ago was a very newcomer, who has made every mistake in the books. :-[
I am probably not as patient as I should be at times and am given to sticking my foot in my mouth, probably how I hurt my back ;D
I hope you have gained something from this experience, I know I have. I look forward to having many chats on this forum.
Neil
No worries Neil my foot is always in my mouth I always blurt something out my brother died at the start of the year and that is when I started my tree and I have had a falling out with my cousin who I know has a lot of information about my family but is keeping it to himself Will someone pass me the violin :)
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Aww, isn't that nice, and sad too, everyone made up in the end.
mum mum
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I finally got to talk to my sister and she said James joined the Navy very young and all she knows was the ship was called HMS Donegal and something about a ship called Rosario 1878. So am slowly getting there.
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:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Donegal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Donegal_(1902)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Rosario
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condor_class_sloop
May I recommend the Armed Forces Board here at RChat. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,300.0.html
Cheers, JM
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Thanks for your time JM I will have a look a the Armed Forces Board and read the descriptions of the ships you have given me . I always get so excited when I find any information on the Burke's it has become an obsession . Take Care Lynette
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Agh, so you are trully ADDICTED ! A grand condition from which there is no known cure but a well known fate common to all including those without the addiction, and , hopefully your fate will be way off in the distant future, long after you have solved many mysteries in your own family history searchings.
Cheers, JM
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Hey guys,
I have a book here that is relevant to this discussion and can probably fill in a few blanks:
- when james Burke married Lucy Dyke on 24th October 1870 he was listed as a Seaman of HMS Lord Warden.
- Lucy's parents were Thomas Joseph Dyke (Watchmaker) and Hannah Dyke nee Smallwood.
- Lucy was born on 15th November 1850
- James was born on 2nd February 1851
- James joined the navy in 1866 aged 15 at HMS Donegal, then served on HMS Rosario. Naval Record 37328A
- When they married, Lucy lived at 21 Hill street Coventry. She probably stayed with her parents while James was away with the Navy, hence being at home on the census in 1871.
James lived at 66 Guy(sic) Friars Lane Coventry. Guy should probably read Grey.
- A witness at their wedding was John Burke, James older brother of 10 years. The other witness was Mary Ann Rogers.
- Their 6 children were born in NSW.
- Lucy died on 29th September 1900 at home 14 Lothian St North Melbourne.
- James died at home on 25th August 1901. His occupation was listed as engine driver.
- They're both buried at Melbourne General Cemetry along with their daughter Catherine who died at 12 of kidney disease.
- When their first son Arthur Edmund Burke was born in NSW in 1877 his occupation was listed as a railway carriage cleaner. After that on other birth certificates he was listed as fireman, engineer and engine driver. There may be records of him being a fireman in Goulburn NSW, or a fire truck or train driver (Engine driver) in Newcastle NSW.
- There is a reference to them moving to Victoria in about 1890.
Is it possible James sailed to Australia with the HMS Lord Warden?
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Lord Warden relieved HMS Caledonia as flagship on the station in 1869. She served in this position until 1875, when she paid off for refit. She was in the First Reserve in the Forth until 1878, when she joined the Particular Service Squadron during the Russian war scare. She finally paid off in 1885, her crew being transferred en masse to HMS Devastation.
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The last ship I have James on is the HMS Rosario in 1873 I noticed that it is in Port at Queensland in 1871 and with a Google search it is on the Census is there a way to see the Census for 1871 Thanks Lynette
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That item is referring to the UK census, it was a British ship.
Her Majesty's Ship Rosario, Screw Steam Sloop, Commander Henry J. CHALLIS, Australian Station.
Position of the Ship at midnight on the night of Sunday, April 2nd 1871: Anchor off Somerset, Cape York, Queensland, Australia. (RG10 Piece 5784 Folio 122 Page 3)
I don't see anyone named BURKE onboard.
Debra :)
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Thankyou Debra for taking the time to look back to the drawing board Take Care Lynette
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Hi all,
Many thanks to all who helped my cousin Lyn22 in her search.
The book which LeighBurke (Post #42, 04 July 1942) mentions appears to be the short history I wrote in 1990. When referring to information in a book it is good practice to give its title, author, publication details & ISBN, if there is one - in this case it is ISBN 0 646 02340 3.
I have been researching the Burke family of Coventry for 45 years & am always willing to help if I can.
don3820