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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jackiea on Tuesday 01 May 12 14:09 BST (UK)
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A big mystery to me. John Child passed away in 1880 in queensland. He was insolvent in the late 1870's and it wasnt until 1914 a case was bought before the courts as Martha Taylor died and left a sum of money to the late John Child. The courts ordered the monies from Martha Taylor's estate be used to pay the people who were owed money from John Child before he died. I can not find how Martha taylor was related to John Child and if she was why was her will not changed prior to her death as John had died in 1880. Can anyone help with these questions?
Thank you in advanced for your help.
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Hi, Why do people do anything before they die? To clear their concience generally. :-[
I dont think Martha Taylor was related. But instead may have been the reason he went insolvent.
Do you know the reason John Child went insolvent? Is John Child or Martha Taylor in your tree?
Neil
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Hi
Do you know the names of John's parents ?
I have not found a death for him on QLD BDM's
This may be his death notice http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/902758?searchTerm=john child &searchLimits=fromyyyy=1880|||frommm=05|||fromdd=15|||toyyyy=1880|||tomm=05|||todd=15
Thinking out loud was Martha his sister or aunt ?
Muss
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John Child died country Queensland 1885. No Parents Listed, born England.
Ref#1885/C555
Neil
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There is also this that I cannot find a BDM for?
CHILD.-On the 3rd March, at Wigmore, John Child, late of Diddlebury, aged 72.
From The Queenslander 22nd May 1880...... 2 & 1/2 months after the death?
Was that the one you referred to Muss?
Neil
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I think that the 1880 death notice refers to a death in Shropshire, England, not Queensland.
Debra :)
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Some info on John CHILD who died 1885:
The Marriage of John Child and Mary Butler took place in the District Registrars Office, Sweers Island on the 2nd January 1869.
At the time of the marriage John Child was a squatter age 25years, of Lawn Hill Burketown and Mary Butler was a Domestic Servant at Burketown.
I have been told they lived on Carpentaria Downs when John Child died on the 22 May 1885. Mary remarried 3 months later to William Charles Borlaise Wilson. Apparently William Wilson's father was also William Charles Borlaise (or Borlam) Wilson who was a surveyor and his Mother was Sarah Hall. I was also told John and Mary Child also lived on Lyndhurst Station. Their daughter Beatrice Child married Francis Edward Cobbold and they owned Hughenden Station.
Other information you might like to have is John and Mary Child had 6 children - Charles Edward born 4th October 1873 at Wando Vale,( he was my Gr.Grandfather) Beatrice Sarah born 31 December1869, James William born 10 December1868, John Mytton born 2 March 1872, (he was named after Mr. Mytton who owned Wando Vale), Ernest Burdekin born 23 March 1875 died 7th February 1876 and William Child born 23rd July 1879, died 26th October 1886.
http://www.burkeshirecouncil.com/bob_edols.htm
Debra :)
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Hi there,
There was of course more than one John CHILD who died in 1880. Here is one whose death was noted in Queensland newspapers, but who died in England.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/902758 The Brisbane Courier 15 May 1880
DEATH
CHILD – On the 3rd March, at Wigmore, John Child, late of Diddlebury, aged 72.
From the National Probate Calendar (ENGLAND)
CHILD John Personal Estate under £50.
2 June. The Will of John Child formerly of Beckley near Christchurch in the County of Southampton but late of Wigmore in the County of Hereford. Gentleman who died 3 March 1880 at Wigmore was proved at Hereford by James Nott of Brampton Brian in the County of Hereford Farmer one of the Executors.
Jackiea, may I please ask some questions
1. How do you know that the estate of Martha Taylor was distributed to the people who were owed money by the Insolvent Estate of a John Child who passed away in 1880 in Queensland?
2. Do you have the death certificates for either the Martha Taylor or the John Child that you mention. Queensland BDM certificates are very informative, and include details that are not usually found on English certificates. In fact Qld certificates include burial details and not just the details of the death of the deceased. If you have either or both, please type up all the information on these documents. Often the smallest detail helps us all to help you to advance your quest.
3. When did Martha Taylor die? The case you mention was brought before the courts in 1914, however Martha may have died long before then.
Cheers, JM
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59079469 Townsville Daily 7 Feb 1914.
"Letters of administration In the goods of John Child, late of Lorne Hill Station, but formerly of Townsvile, grazier, deceased. Intestate, who died at Cowan Downs Station on May 22, 1885, were granted to Mary Wilson, of Ingham, widow. ......"
I think this would be the John Child that Dundee mentions.
Cheers, JM
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Are we all talking about the same John Child died 1885, Ref # 1885/C555 ::)
Seems we need a lot more info from Jackiea.
Neil ;)
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Hi there,
I am having difficulty in finding a likely death in Queensland for Martha TAYLOR. However, I am only using the online index for BDM in Queensland and I am aware that there are flaws in that index.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=deaths
Neil, I am not sure if we are all talking about the same John CHILD. The OP has 1880 rather than 1885. I agree, we need more info from Jackiea.
A big mystery to me. John Child passed away in 1880 in queensland. He was insolvent in the late 1870's and it wasnt until 1914 a case was bought before the courts as Martha Taylor died and left a sum of money to the late John Child. The courts ordered the monies from Martha Taylor's estate be used to pay the people who were owed money from John Child before he died. I can not find how Martha taylor was related to John Child and if she was why was her will not changed prior to her death as John had died in 1880. Can anyone help with these questions?
Thank you in advanced for your help.
ADDING, I have mentioned TWO John CHILD deaths, one in 1880 in England and one in 1885 in Qld.
Cheers, JM
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Hi
I notice that there is a mention of John Child and Martha Taylor on this
http://genforum.genealogy.com/taylor/messages/27008.html
Muss
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Hi
Also on this
http://boards.ancestry.com/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=11154&p=surnames.taylor
Muss
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Well found Muss, :)
Now I can see why I could not find Martha Taylor's death in Queensland, Australia.
Many thanks Muss.
Hope we can continue to advance Jackiea's search for her.
Cheers, JM
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Re Martha TAYLOR died 1913, England.
Some thoughts .... hopefully not too dis-jointed ....
1. I wonder if the following GRO reference is for her?
Martha Taylor, Aged 75, registered IoW, Vol 2b page 741 for the 4th Quarter of 1913.
2. Would an English d.c. show if the deceased was a widow, and if so, would it show her maiden name or any other former surnames? .... Sadly, it seems that they don’t provide that type of detail. http://www.dixons.clara.co.uk/Certificates/deaths.htm “This is the name by which they were known at the time of death. If, therefore, someone started life with a different name but by usage has come to be called something else you will not find any reference to the original name on older certificates” And http://www.britishancestors.com/research/bmd.php “Please note that English death certificates do not provide any information on parents or other family members.”
3. Where was Jackiea’s Martha Taylor in 1901? Perhaps IF (and that is a very very distant IF) she was the one who died IoW 1913, then perhaps .... and AGAIN I stress this is very very speculative, ..... perhaps she was living on IoW in 1901. I don’t have access to 1911 UK Census, and also a reminder that RChat policy does not permit lookups for that 1911 UK Census.
But for 1901 I can see on Newport Rd, Newchurch IoW, RG13; 1028; 94; 19.
Henry TAYLOR, Head, 61, bricklayer, Grocer, Employer, At home, born IoW Haden Street
Martha TAYLOR, wife, baker etc shopkeeper, IoW Wootton
Arthur TAYLOR, son, single,31, bricklayer, worker, IoW, Wootton
Walter TAYLOR, son, single, 26, Baker, worker, at home, IoW, Newchurch
Oscar, TAYLOR, son, 21, carpenter, single, worker, IoW, Newchurch
Florrie TAYLOR, niece, single, 10, IoW, Ventror
I apologise for any spelling errors with locations. I am not familiar with Isle of Wright localities, it is so very far away from Lake Macquarie, NSW, Australia.
Hope I am not being too speculative re the above possible sighting for Martha Taylor, and I realise I am not connecting the dots to sort out how any Martha Taylor who died 1913 in England was connected to John Child who migrated to Queensland in 1863, but who may well have returned to England where he likely died in 1880.... .
Cheers, JM
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Hi there,
I could well be way off track, apologies if so, particularly to Jackiea.
According to the INDEX for Qld immigrants list at this link:
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/Indexes/Immigration/Pages/Immigration1848.aspx
John CHILD, aged 39, Elizabeth CHILD aged 29 and John Child aged 8 and William Child aged 4 arrived in Queensland on the ship “Monsoon” on 17 August 1854. The passenger list is references IMM/112, at page 69, and M/film references are Z1957 and M1696 at the Queensland State Archives.
Other RChatters have noticed a John CHILD’s death registered in 1885 in country Queensland (#C555) and that the index does not mention his parents names .... noting only that he was born in England.
I cannot find any Qld dc indexed for Elizabeth CHILD nor for any William CHILD with mum’s given name of Elizabeth.
I don’t have access to any INWARD passengers returning to the UK up to 1880s, very sorry Jackiea.
Cheers, JM (I am NSW centric, so I am not much chop when it comes to looking up anywhere outside of NSW)
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59079469 Townsville Daily 7 Feb 1914.
"Letters of administration In the goods of John Child, late of Lorne Hill Station, but formerly of Townsvile, grazier, deceased. Intestate, who died at Cowan Downs Station on May 22, 1885, were granted to Mary Wilson, of Ingham, widow. ......"
I think this would be the John Child that Dundee mentions.
Cheers, JM
Insolvency 1866
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lw1/
Brisbane Courier…24 Oct 1876 acquitted of fraudulent insolvency
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lvz/
1885 – right hand column –
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lw0/
ACCORDING to a telegram received by the - Commissioner of Police from Sub-inspector Ahearne a fearful outrage was perpetrated by a Chinaman named Young Sin at Muttaburra on Friday. The Chinaman, it appears, was committing a brutal assault on his wife, and a man named John Childs interfered to protect
her. The infuriated Celestial attacked Childs with a large knife and stabbed him in eleven different parts of the body. The injured man was placed under medical attendance as soon as possible, but two of the wounds are of such a serious character that it is feared he will not recover. The Chinaman has been arrested.
Perhaps this info may be helpful...or not. I haven't included Letters of Administration.
Probate grants UK 1913
TAYLOR Martha of 49 Queen-street Farnworth Lancashire widow died 1 April 1912 Probate London 28 January to Joseph Albert Taylor contractor and James Healey grocer’s assistant. Effects £1138.16.4
TAYLOR Martha of Prospect-place Meltham Huddersfield spinster died 27 May 1911 Probate Wakefield 19 February to Theophilus Taylor farmer and Gervase Taylor patent glazier. Effects £316.19.0.
1914
TAYLOR Martha of Sandry-road Seaforth Lancashire widow died 26 November 1913 Probate Liverpool 2 July to Elizabeth Mann spinster. Effects £479.1.8.
TAYLOR Martha of Westfield House Batley Yorkshire widow died 22 May 1914 Probate London 20 July to Gertrude Elsie Taylor spinster and Edmund AudsleyTaylor woollen merchant. Effects £3049.5.3.
TAYLOR Martha of 3 Carill-drive Fallowfield Manchester [wife of Henry Taylor] died 14 August 1914 Probate Manchester 21 September to Stafford Taylor solicitor. Effects £3611.12.11
Cheers
Cando
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TAYLOR Martha of 49 Queen-street Farnworth Lancashire widow died 1 April 1912 Probate London 28 January (1913) to Joseph Albert Taylor contractor and James Healey grocer’s assistant. Effects £1138.16.4
Following up from one of the items that Cando has kindly posted...
There’s mention of FARNWORTH and Joseph Albert TAYLOR as executor for Martha Taylor at this link: http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.taylor/12069/mb.ashx
In 1901 at 76 Brackley St, Farnworth, Lancs, England RG13; 3600; 28;48.
William TAYLOR, head, 47, joiner Carp, own (employer), born Bolton
Martha TAYLOR, wife, 48, born Bolton
Joseph Alb TAYLOR son, 17, Cotton cord cutter, worker, born Farnworth
Harold TAYLOR, son, 15, Joiner’s App. Carp. Worker, born Farnworth
Ada TAYLOR, dau 5, born Farnworth
James CROMPTON, F in L, Widower, 82, Retired Postman, born Bolton
Martha TAYLOR, dau, 12, born Farnworth.
Perhaps Martha’s son Joseph Alb Taylor was that Joseph Albert Taylor. I also notice that Martha’s maiden name was most likely CROMPTON as per the surname for the retired postman, F in L being “Father in Law” to William Taylor, whose wife was Martha.
Cheers, JM
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Arrival in 1863 of a John CHILD.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lw5/
John Child passed away in 1880 in queensland
As mentioned by a number of chatters......
Death of a John CHILD aged 72 years in 1880 - in England
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lw7/
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Deaths Mar 1880
CHILD John 71 years Ludlow 6a/437
Could you please post date and place of the court case?
Cando
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It is still only 7.38am in England so may get an answer to our questions shortly, hopefully?
I believe the one you just posted (Cando) is our man. What his connection to the Taylors in the last post by (Majm) I am sure I dont know. But we have moved around 17,000klms and checking out all things in 19th century England was not what I originally thought the post to be?
Neil ???
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I notice that there’s a Martha Crompton born 1844, in the Sub District of Little Bolton, and mother’s maiden name of HORROCKS. http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/births.php
I notice that there’s a Martha Crompton marrying a William TAYLOR in 1876 at Bolton. http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi?county=lancashire
I notice that there’s a Martha TAYLOR aged 59 death registered at Farnworth Sub District in 1912.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/deathind.cgi
Cheers, JM (still looking for a connection to CHILD and agree with Neil, CANDO has most likely got the right John CHILD dc!)
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Not wishing to deepen this mystery any further Butttttt.
The 1861 census for Lancs also has a Martha Taylor 18 years domestic servant born in Australia ???
Working for Elizabeth Clough the head of houshold at 28years and a Dressmaker.
Neil
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Hi
Martha Taylor may not have died in 1914, it states that it was brought before the court in 1914 and for some reason or another it may have taken some years to sort out
Does anyone think that it is strange that this happened some 34 years after John Child's death.
Margp
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Hi everyone,
Our OP (Jackiea) has not been online since first posting her query, but hopefully she will be receiving notifications that will have her back to help sort out the various sightings we have collectively provided.
Martha Taylor may not have died in 1914, it states that it was brought before the court in 1914 and for some reason or another it may have taken some years to sort out
Does anyone think that it is strange that this happened some 34 years after John Child's death.
and
.... Jackiea, may I please ask some questions.... 3. When did Martha Taylor die? The case you mention was brought before the courts in 1914, however Martha may have died long before then.
...... Could you please post date and place of the court case?
Hi MargP,
Yes, I do think it strange that there was apparently a long delay, however, I also recall from my own tree that an estate was still being contested in the 1920s in the UK for a death in the UK in 1840s. The deceased's children and grandchildren were nominated as beneficiaries and they (grandchildren) were still squabbling over the distribution of the residue in 1928. The legal eagles firms may well have built grand castles with the income from their fees for these actions ;D
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
Another thought is, that Martha may not have made a Will, and there were no known next of kin, and it ended up on the Bona Vacantia list, and John Child was one of the beneficiaries, and they may not known each other?????????
Marg
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Hi JM
Another thought is, that Martha may not have made a Will, and there were no known next of kin, and it ended up on the Bona Vacantia list, and John Child was one of the beneficiaries, and they may not known each other?????????
Marg
The OP seems to mention a WILL ... A big mystery to me. John Child passed away in 1880 in queensland. He was insolvent in the late 1870's and it wasnt until 1914 a case was bought before the courts as Martha Taylor died and left a sum of money to the late John Child. The courts ordered the monies from Martha Taylor's estate be used to pay the people who were owed money from John Child before he died. I can not find how Martha taylor was related to John Child and if she was why was her will not changed prior to her death as John had died in 1880. Can anyone help with these questions?
Thank you in advanced for your help.
I wonder if there is some confusion somewhere along the line. Perhaps it is not well known that it is quite lawful for a WILL not to make any provision for descendants, and also that any/some/all beneficiaries of a deceased estate do NOT need to related to the testator at all. (Probably in that era I should consider using the word 'testatrix') Where there are dependants, then a will ought to make provision for the dependants, BUT dependants can be persons who are NOT related to the testator.
Jackiea,
Do you have a copy of the will? If it is UK based, perhaps either of these links may help
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/default.aspx
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/search
Cheers, JM
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Thank you everone who have given some thoughts and information into this mystery. I have the death certificate of John Child who died and buried at Cowan Downs Quensland. But because little was known of him little information was on his death certificate. I have traced his family he left in England and he left not long after his mother and a dear sister died.
The story regarding his insolvency began after he took over the commercial hotel in flinders street Townsville and apparently, John being a trusting man left an employee in charge of the banking and the banking never got done. Well was never put in his account anyway, hence no money to pay any one, and court proceedings declared him insolvent.
I have applied for a few wills of Martha Taylors in England and can not find any who left money to John Child. The info Dundee has given sounds like the info I gave the burke shire a few years ago and is correct of his wife and children.
I will take on board all who have sent me info and will check all the sites you have sent me.
When or if I find out who she was and how all this came about I will let you all know. You are all so fantastic for how you have helped me so far.
My Kindest Wishes to you all
Jackiea
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Hi Jackiea
Do you know if the court case took place in England or Australia and where did your original information come from.
Margp
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Hi Jackiea
So it was John CHILD jnr who died in 1885 Queensland and it was his father John CHILD snr that died 1880 in England.
It is possible that Martha TAYLOR never knew that John CHILD jnr had died in Queensland so therefore she never altered her will.
Strange that you have applied for copies of a few wills for Martha TAYLOR and have not found anything.
So wondering where the info on Martha TAYLOR comes from?
Do you have a copy of the actual court case?
The only Martha that I can find that is related to the CHILD family is Martha DAVIS nee CHILD who died 21 DEC 1902 Burford Shropshire, She is the sister of John CHILD snr.
Do you have a copy of her Will? If not it might be worth getting.
Cheers Leonie
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As we still have not had several questions answered definitively by Jackiea.
I thought we might ask some again.
You have in your last post that John left England after the loss of his mother and a dear sister. WHAT were their names please?
Also What was Johns Birthdate and where born Please?
The names of his Siblings please?
Was John the person who died in Queensland 1885 or the one who died in England 1880. The subject of the bequest in the contested will of 1914 please?
Hi Jackiea
Do you know if the court case took place in England or Australia and where did your original information come from.
Margp
I believe all those who have posted and searched would like these questions answered and we will then attempt to get to the bottom of this mystery. ;D
Please don't leave out the last line of this mystery, we all need to know :o
Best regards from OZ
PS.. I have a John Child in a 1861 English census with a younger sister Martha ???
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I am also quite frustrated that questions have not been answered....I asked about the court case in back in reply#18.
The only Martha that I can find that is related to the CHILD family is Martha DAVIS nee CHILD who died 21 DEC 1902 Burford Shropshire, She is the sister of John CHILD snr.
Leonie
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar - Index of Wills and Administrations
1903
Martha DAVIS of Burford Shropshire widow died 21 Dec 1902 Probate Shrewsbury 5 Feb to William Samuel Davis solicitor and the reverend William Humphrey CHILD.
Effects £5898.3.4.
Cheers :)
Cando
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Yes I too am intrigued ....
Perhaps my question is WHAT document or oral history evidence PROMPTS the question initially and I think that info will help us all to use our own experences to join the dots for Jackie.
The combined efforts of RChatters regularly 'solve/resolve' many intrigues.
Umm How to get Martha DAVIS to be Martha TAYLOR !!!
Cheers JM
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Well I can tell you trolling through english census for hours since 4.0am I only came up with one possible. If John had a sister who married to a Taylor we may have a connection. That is only one of a hundred different possibles though. They could have met on ship, had a few quiet drinks and discussed their lives. ??? Who knows.. ???
But the questions need to be answered first. ::)
Neil ;D
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Well at least I now know that out John Child born 1841 had a sister Martha born c1851 at Cleobury Mortimer along with several more siblings, many more than Jackiea cited in a much earlier 2003 question on a paid subscription site.
Thanks to leonie for sending that early info to me. From the 1851 census.
His father was William b 1807 at Tenbury Worcestershire, his mother Jane b1811 at Cleobury, his elder sister Elizabeth 1838 and a younger sister Ann b1846.
We go on from here, Maybe?
Neil
NOPE! ALL WRONG Modified.
I had the whole family wrong going off the 2003 post. John Child Senior was actually born 1811 in the 1841 census. He is living with wife Sarah 1811, Sarah 1835, Beatrice 1838 and Margaret 1840.
In the 1851 census there are NONE of them??
again Neil
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Hi
Did John Child snr have a will or did he die intestate ? maybe the money was left to him and when his estate was finalised , his son John Jnr was the beneficiary.
Muss
One of my GGgrandfathers will took 30 years
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As I posted previously
Deaths Mar 1880
CHILD John 71 years Ludlow 6a/437
Adding... The district Ludlow spans the boundaries of the counties of Herefordshire and Shropshire
Probate Index
1880
CHILD John 2 June The Will of John Child formerly of Beckley near Christchurch in the county of Southampton but late of Wigmore in the county of Hereford Gentleman who died on the 3 March 1880 at Wigmore and was proved at Hereford by James Nott of Brampton Brian in the county of Hereford Farmer one of the Executors. Personal Estate under £50.
Cando
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Yes all this info below is correct-
John Child Senior was actually born 1811 in the 1841 census. He is living with wife Sarah 1811, Sarah 1835, Beatrice 1838 and Margaret 1840.
Martha DAVIS of Burford Shropshire widow died 21 Dec 1902 Probate Shrewsbury 5 Feb to William Samuel Davis solicitor and the reverend William Humphrey CHILD.
Effects £5898.3.4
CHILD John 2 June The Will of John Child formerly of Beckley near Christchurch in the county of Southampton but late of Wigmore in the county of Hereford Gentleman who died on the 3 March 1880 at Wigmore and was proved at Hereford by James Nott of Brampton Brian in the county of Hereford Farmer one of the Executors. Personal Estate under £50.
But..... I still can not find the relationship or who Martha Taylor was and when did she died and where. The court hearing was in Townsville and it does not say who Martha Taylor was. It was the money from her Estate that was distributed , however, John's wife who remarried after his death to Wilson applied for the money but after all the people he had owed money too were paid she than got the residue.
To answer more questions Johns mother was Sarah and his sister was Beatrice. John born in 1842 married Mary Butler at Sweeres Island in 1869. They had 5 sons and a daughter Beatrice, who lived with Rose O'Neill and Andrew Ball following her fathers insolvency. Beatrice ended up marrying Frank Cobbold.
There does not seem to be any Taylors connected.
It is eating me up not being able to find out who the generous lady was.
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How much Lsd did the court at Townsville have there to be distributed
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Do you have a copy of the court proceedings
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I am wondering when the money from Martha Taylor, was put into John's estate was it around his death date or later.
When did Mary marry Wilson
Margp
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Would the 1880s John Child junior's Probate have been re-opened for the QLD Supreme Court to adjust and re-distribute then re-seal? Would it be available to sight at Archives now...
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Hi majm
I an not familiar with Australian Records, but if it is governed by the 100 year law then it would not be available until 2014, that if they take the date it was re-opened
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Each Au state has its own laws but NSW Probates from NSW Supreme court are transferred to NSW State Archives and on open access with approx 50 yr closure
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Is there a site where these can be search for
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Found this
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/79175251?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=john+child
She left it a long time in making a claim.
Cheers Leonie
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http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchhits.aspx?table=Deceased Estates&ID=15&query=martha taylor&frm=0
Found it
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I am not familiar with the English or Australian law, but I would have thought that if there was a dispute, and the probate was in England it would have been up to the English courts to sort it out, so I am leaning towards that Martha Taylor may have been in Australia when she died, there are 2 Martha Taylor's on the NSW Archive site who died intestate
Martha Taylor DOD 23 8 1884 Granville
Martha J Taylor DOD 16 7 1892 Petersham
Margp
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Any chance of letting me know WHAT is in in the SRO NSW site. it wont open from the live link. Marg?
Neil
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I am not familiar with the English or Australian law, but I would have thought that if there was a dispute, and the probate was in England it would have been up to the English courts to sort it out, so I am leaning towards that Martha Taylor may have been in Australia when she died, there are 2 Martha Taylor's on the NSW Archive site who died intestate
Martha Taylor DOD 23 8 1884 Granville
Martha J Taylor DOD 16 7 1892 Petersham
Margp
Hi Margp, Sorry, but these are NOT actually on the Intestate Index, they are on the Deceased Estates Index (ie a valid WILL was proven), and the lady at GRANVILLE with DD 23 August 1884, her estate was probated 6 April 1889. The lady at Petersham, well her estate was probated 6 Dec1892.
Granville and Petersham are both suburbs of Sydney.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=15 (Edit to make this link LIVE !)
As far as I can determine, there is NO Martha TAYLOR listed on the Intestacy Index at the NSW SRO
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=53
There is another Martha TAYLOR listed at the Archives Investigator http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au (Use simple search) and that was a Martha Taylor, DD 24 August 1884, and Probate granted 1 April 1889
NSW BDM online http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
Martha TAYLOR, died Granville, father’s surname ROWE, #7851 of 1884
Best option if considering ordering the dcs would be to consider the cheaper alternative (and it comes as email attachment) :
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
Cheers, JM
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How much Lsd did the court at Townsville have there to be distributed
Found this
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/79175251?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits=exactPhrase=john+child
She left it a long time in making a claim.
Cheers Leonie
£1 ... not even a guinea :'(
John CHILDS died Intestate, at Cowan Dawns Station on May 22, 1885, and the cutting has the value as £1
BUT I still cannot figure out how anyone named Martha TAYLOR has anything to do with that John CHILD. Sorry, but the dots don't join up for me.
Cheers, JM
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Hi
Could Martha Taylor be related to John Child's wife Mary Butler ( ie Grandmother or mother who has remarried) ?
Muss
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The Queensland State Archives
http://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/Search/BasicSearch.aspx
“Audit insolvency file”
ID1054148 has CHILD, John insolvency ran from 4 Aug 1876 to 18 July 1879. So it is likely that he had cleared his sequestration by July 1879 (ie well and trully within the seven years) and was NOT insolvent at the time of his death (mind you I am not sure if this chap was the one who died in England in 1880 or the one who died in Queensland in 1885 OR a completely different John CHILD).
Cheers, JM
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This notice placed 6 Oct 1913
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60387114?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits
This notice was placed in 8 Oct 1914
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/61818217?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits
So someone might have objected to the application of the probate in 1913.
If so a court case would be held.
Not sure if the 1914 notice is for the same John CHILD ???
Cheers Leonie
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This notice placed 6 Oct 1913
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60387114?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits
This notice was placed in 8 Oct 1914
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/61818217?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits
So someone might have objected to the application of the probate in 1913.
If so a court case would be held.
Not sure if the 1914 notice is for the same John CHILD ???
Cheers Leonie
Well found Leonie, and I agree, the 1914 notice could well be for a completely different John CHILD ... the notice does NOT mention that chap as being deceased. In fact, the way I read it, that chap was still alive, a Gentleman Insolvent.
Cheers, JM
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Mention was made earlier that John's wife married the same year to a WILSON....
This notice placed 6 Oct 1913
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60387114?searchTerm="john child"&searchLimits
Insert Quote
Quote from: majm on May 01, 2012, 10:04:57 PM
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59079469 Townsville Daily 7 Feb 1914.
"Letters of administration In the goods of John Child, late of Lorne Hill Station, but formerly of Townsvile, grazier, deceased. Intestate, who died at Cowan Downs Station on May 22, 1885, were granted to Mary Wilson, of Ingham, widow. ......"
I think this would be the John Child that Dundee mentions.
Cheers, JM
Well found Leonie, and I agree, the 1914 notice could well be for a completely different John CHILD ... the notice does NOT mention that chap as being deceased. In fact, the way I read it, that chap was still alive, a Gentleman Insolvent.
I agree JM
I do find it quite strange that the OP has logged in today and not responded.
Cando
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Our OP logged in to post reply #36.
Oops, that should read Our OP most recently logged in to post reply # 36
Cheers, JM
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Hi all who are helping be tremendously. Sorry I have a full time job and work weekends as well so time to myself is hard so cant log often to answer your questions.
I have just dug out all the old paper work and found an Affidavit of Roberts a solicitor in Townsville for Mary Wilson (previously Mary Child). This was filed in the Supreme Court of Queensland Townsville on the 12th January 1914 . On the paragraph 3 on the first page of the affidavit it read-
At the time of his (John Child) death the said deceased left no estate in Queensland and it has only now become necessary to apply for a grant of letters of Administration of his estate by reason of certain moneys in England having become payable to the estate of the said deceased.
It is also recorded that publication of application for the estate of John Child was in Qld gov gazette, Qld law reporter, Croydon Mining News and Townsville bulletin between the dates of 4th October1913 and the 16th October 1913.
To the supreme Court of Queensland Townsville On the 26th August 1914 Mary Wilson signed the Inventory and Affidavit verifying Inventory of the Personal estate of John Child was-
Amount to which deceased was entitled under Will of Martha Taylor deceased: in 308Pounds 2shillings and 8pence.
This was the first time that I had found the name Martha Taylor. It is a mystery to whom she was and how John Child came to be the beneficery of her will.
I have now also come across a Notice of resealing of Grant. It is stamped 28th August 1914 in Northern Supreme Court Townsville
It reads:
The High Court Of Justice, Principal Probate Registry, London
(hand written date) 22/7/14
Sir,
I beg to give you notice that the undermentioned Grant, which issued under the Seal of your Court, was, on the date stated, Resealed in the Principal Probate Registry of the High Court of Justice in England
Name of Deceased: John Child
Nature and Date of Grant: A 6/2/14
Date of Resealing: 16/6/14
The Registrar of Probates,
Supreme Court
(hand written) Townsville, Queensland
Signed Pemberton
Chief Clerk,
Notation Department
Now another stamped paper Queensland Stamp Duty - Impressed duty 10 Ten shillings. It is hard to read the old English Writings so I think it says
This Indenture made this Seventeeth day of October 1914 between his living children and Mary Wilson formerly Mary Child.
It goes on in saying John Child was adjudicated insolvent on the fourth day of August 1876 and whereas since his death certain moneys have become payable to his estate in consequence of the death of Martha Taylor AND WHEREAS the trustees of the said Martha Taylor's settlement required that letters of Administration of the goods of the said John Child should be applied for before paying over the share to which the said deceased was entitled AND WHEREAS Letters of Administration were on the Sixth day of February 1914 granted by the Supreme Court of Queensland at Townsville to the said Mary Wilson the lawful widow of the said deceased AND WHEREAS the Official Trustee in Insolvency at Townsville has claimed from the Trustees of the settlement of the said Martha Taylor all moneys to which the said John Child was entitled.....
I am still today non the wiser of who this generous lady was.
Hope someone can help solve this great mystery. Thank you all. Hope this has not become too confusing.
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Hi Jackiea
Thanks for updating us with the info on John CHILD and Martha TAYLOR.
I think there must be a family connection with the amount of money left to him. It may have taken
many years for John CHILD in Queenland to be tracked down.
Any idea if the family in Australia kept in contact with the family in England??
Any letters or photos sent between them?
I had a good look at the CHILD family and as I said before the only Martha that I found was Martha DAVIS.
Have you yourself traced John CHILDs jnrs mothers family Sarah DAVIES ba 1810 Wigmore, Herefordshire?
Cheers Leonie
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The High Court Of Justice, Principal Probate Registry, London
(hand written date) 22/7/14
Sir,
I beg to give you notice that the undermentioned Grant, which issued under the Seal of your Court, was, on the date stated, Resealed in the Principal Probate Registry of the High Court of Justice in England
Name of Deceased: John Child
Nature and Date of Grant: A 6/2/14
Date of Resealing: 16/6/14
The Registrar of Probates,
Supreme Court
(hand written) Townsville, Queensland
Signed Pemberton
Chief Clerk,
Notation Department
Have you sought direct access to the UK records of the Principal Probate Registry of the High Court of Justice as opposed to looking for the will of Martha Taylor ?
Cheers, JM
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Thank you for your help, No I have not thought of applying to the court for that. I will now try to find an address in England of whom to apply to for this. Thank you again for all your help.
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Hi
If you contact someone on this link, and give them all the information that you have, they may be able to point you in the right direction.
http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills
Margp
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Hi Margp
Thank You so much for your help. I will certainly contact them and let you know how I get on eith the search.
Kind Regards
Jackie