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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: sistera on Tuesday 01 May 12 05:58 BST (UK)
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Gooday there, I'm looking for my granmothers mother Margaret Ellwood formerly Candlish. My Granmother was Sarah Roberts /Ellwood,her father was Robert Ellwood brn: 1837 in Cockermouth Cumberland England who was a biscuit maker wharehouseman and Margaret Ellwood/candlish was his 2nd wife Brn abt: 1852 in Kirkcudbright Scotland and had two chidren William 9yrs brn abt: 1882 and Sarah 6yrs brn:1884[this's my granmother]both born in liverpool england. The 1891 census confirms this. I do not have any info on when they were married but I'm assuming it was arnd the late 1870s to earlier 1880s going on williams age in the 1891 census.I also have doc on margaret who was interred @ toxteth cemetry 23 april 1911 age 49yrs[to be confirmed as yrs don't match as her death age 49 makes it 1901 from her birth yr 1852] I would appreciate any help on this as well as info on robert ellwood and family and any pics would be a great bonus. thanking you :)
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Hi
Robert Ellwood and Margaret McCandlish married Liverpool Reg Dist March Qtr 1874 Vol 8b Page 123.
Your best option would be to get a copy of the marriage certificate as that should give you the name and occupation of her father.
Andy
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Hi there
That was sooo quick an answer. I tried to send a copy of my g,mothers death cer to show her mothers surname as Candlish and not Mc candlish but it would'nt send,told me the file could be to big and also a pic of her in 1951.would there be another way of finding the marriage date, I've tried Family search with no luck.I'm 61yrs and a bit slow at this,so thanks for your information.I'll try one more time to send it and hope it works,sorry would'nt take it :)
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Hi
Don't worry about the Candlish/McCandlish surname, it is not unusual to have variations like that. The marriage will be the one I referred to. To get further back you really do need her fathers name and occupation from her marriage certificate
Andy
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Thankyou sooo much Andy for you quick reply.This's my granmother Sarah Roberts/Ellwood taken 1951 daught of margaret.hope this pic goes through
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sorry I can't seem to get this doc[burial plaque] and pic of sarah roberts/Ellwoodsent to you, i'll give it another try,this info was given to me from a family member its a copy of a burial plaque: In loving memory of Margaret Ellwood
departed this life 23 april 1911 age 49yrs & was interred @ toxteth Cemerty,so do you think this is not the margaret I'm looking for as the dates dont add up from 1852,This could possibly be the sister to roberts first wife Sarah Ellwood in the 1861 census. ???aaahhhh it's telling me it's to large
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Hi
I would say that the Toxteth Park burial is your Margaret Ellwood but whoever registered the death and organised the funeral got the age wrong.
This could possibly be the sister to roberts first wife Sarah Ellwood in the 1861 census.
Roberts first wifes sister wouldn't be an Ellwood unless by chance she also married an Ellwood.
Andy
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thank you Andy and yes 1861 england census a Sarah Ellwood age 24 brn1837 had a sister Margaret Ellwood :age 49. father was Mark Ellwood age: 62 & a grandson richard:age 26.1871 census Sarah 34yrs married Robert Ellwood 33yrs & had two children: John R Ellwood 9yrs & Martha M:6yrs. 1881 census Robert Ellwood 44yrs biscuit wharehouse man & Margaret 29yrs with stepson John R Ellwood 19yrs labourer in oil mill. so it does get a bit confusing
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I need some help trying to send pics and docs I click on the below:attach photo image -other opt and click on the pic or doc in my folder I want to send but Im not sure how to down size the pic or doc i want to send as this's what the message tells me,I cropped a pic to send and no message came back so i assumed it went through but i could'nt see it on the preview. I've had a spanner thrown in the works,my cousin found document that looks original it's a 1911 England Wale census.
Sarah Roberts age 26 b Liverpool, with Margaret Ellwood Mother age 59yrs Widow b Kirckcudbright and William james ellwood 28yrs Porter b Liverpool
at 53 Eden st Liverpool
So the margaret ellwood who died age 49 & buried @ toxteth is not my Margaret Ellwood
I hope this info helps anyone else searching the same family.
any help on what i'm doing wrong when i try to send would be appreciated :-\
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Hi
Moderators will probably remove the information from the 1911 census as it is not allowed on Rootschat but I had seen it. I think that whoever was the informant for the death registration and the burial simply made a mistake with her age. Unfortunately the only way to be certain is to purchase the death certificate
Andy
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I'm so glad your around to to reasure me as it's hard to believe that someone could get a 10yr difference wrong,you'd think some family members would pick up on it ,thankyou & now back to the drawing board. ???
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Hey there,
Recieved a doc 1861 scotland cen on Margaret Candlish 8yrs brn: abt 1853, burgh kt, kirkcudbright willam candlish:60 ??? fath or grandad
m; sarah 48
william 13
alexander 11
janet 9
margaret 8
james 6
isabella 3
address mill burn street.
Is burgh a suburb of kirkcud
it seems this's my margaret margaret Mcandlish/ellwood
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Hi
The family were also living in Mill Burn St, Kirkcudbright in 1851 so I suspect that burgh kt is a poor transcription of Burn St but you would need to see the original to be sure.
It could be your Margaret but you should check her fathers name and occupation on her marriage certificate to see if it matches.
This is possibly Margaret in the 1871 England Census at 80 Price St Birkenhead
RG10; Piece: 3745; Folio: 101; Page: 43
James Lambert 35 unmarried General Practitioner M.D. Glasgow born Cheshire
Mary H Gilleally 56 married House Keeper born Scotland
Margaret Candlish 17 unmarried Domestic Servant born Scotland
Charles Mickle 15 scholar born Liverpool, Lancashire
Birkenhead is just across the River Mersey from Liverpool.
Andy
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thanks Andy i dont have 1871 cens on her but will def chk it out, Cheers :)
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I looked up Kirkcudbright it was first recorded with Royal Burgh status as far back as 1455 and has an ancient crest.
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gooday there, Tell me is there any other way of finding Margarets father without purchasing a birth cert from scotland as I really dont think this 60 yr william is her father ??? i've tried family search
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Hi
Civil Registration did not commence until 1855 so there won't be a birth certificate. I'm not sure why you don't think William is the father but the youngest children on the 1861 census, James born 1855 and Isabella 1858 were born after Civil Registration and are on Familysearch with parents named as William Candlish & Sarah Houston.
Familysearch for Scotland prior to 1855 are mainly baptisms and marriages for the Church of Scotland, the lack of entries for children of William would suggest they were not Church of Scotland. Most other churches are not online.
The 1841 census has William Candlish at what looks like the same address as 1851 & 1861. Also in the household are 3 Candlish children, John 11, Henrietta 6, and Catherine 3, and a servant Sarah Houston. I'm guessing that William was previously married and his wife died, he then subsequently married his servant Sarah Houston.
You really need to get the Robert Ellwood/Margaret McCandlish marriage certificate as this should give you her fathers name and occupation before you go much further.
Andy
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Thanks so much Andy,I'll look for that 1841 census also found a marriage index:
jan-feb-mar 1874
Robert Ellwood- Margaret McCandlish
Liverpool -Lancashire :)
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hi Andy,
I can't seem to find the 1871 cen of margaret being a servant and also the 1841 cen with the 3 candlish children.how ever I recieved a doc from my cousin who fnd eng/wales cen 1911
Mrs candlish
58yrs widow
chairwoman at St martin court. :-\
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finally fnd cens you mentioned and also fnd:
William Candlish
brn: 1800
dth;1879
occ: general labourer
Fath:John Candlish
moth:Jane Haining
children:
William
Alexander
janet
margaret
james
isabella.
William brn 1800
wife: Sarah houston
brn abt; 1813
dth:1891
fath:Peter Houston
moth:Margaret Rigg
1861 cens shows all family living in Mill Burn street
I looked on family search for 3 children 1841 cens and its shows:
henrietta
brn:2 june 1835
,buittle kirkcudbright scot
fath: william Candlish
moth: Isabella Candlish
trying to find john and catherine on family search as well with no luck.
could this be williams first wife ???
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Hi Sistera,
Did you get the Robert Ellwood/Margaret McCandlish marriage certificate as this should give you her fathers name and occupation?
I would be interested to know who Robert Ellwood's father was. I have interests in Ellwoods of Cockermouth.
Regards,
Gillian
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:)Hi there Gillian, I've been away from my pc & read your message yesterday[late]No I did'nt get a birth cert as I recieved acopy of a England,wales Free BMD marriage index, 1837-1915 results,Robert Ellwood & Margaret McCanldish marr: Jan.Feb,March 1874. L,pool Lanchashire.Robert was previously married to a Sarah Ellwood, who was brn:abt 1837 in Lazonby Cumberland England they had two children[ john R Ellwood & Martha Ellwood .Sarah's father was Mark Ellwood bn:abt 1799 in Bondgate Westmoreland. Roberts Occup: a biscuit factory wharehouseman.Sarah later died then Robert married Margaret she was 29yrs robert 44yrs I'm yet to find roberts parents.Margarets parents were William McCandlish brn: abt 1800 in Kirkudbrightshire & his wife was Sarah Houston brn abt 1813 in burgh kirkudbright. hope this helps you out,cheers
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Hi
Thanks for getting back.
The Sarah Ellwood bap 28/9/1836 Lazonby dau of Mark & Mary Maunsey is one of mine. I do not have her marriage to Robert Ellwood & couldn't find if in freebmd or familysearch. I cannot see the births of their children John R & Martha.
Do you have any more details?
Thanks,
Gillian
PS I've since found the family in 1871 in Liverpool
Robert Ellwood 33 b Cockermouth
Sarah Ellwood 34 b Liverpool<<<<<<<!!!!!!!!!
John R Ellwood 9 b Liverpool
Martha M Ellwood 6 b Liverpool.
Name: John Robert Ellwood
Birth Date: 6 Mar 1862
Baptism Date: 4 May 1862
Parish: Liverpool St Peter
Father's Name: Robert Ellwood
Mother's Name: Sarah Ellwood
Martha Mary Ellwood b1865 Liverpool on freebmd
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Sarah Morris & Robert Ellwood
Name: Sarah Morris <<<<<<<<<<<<<<??????????????????????????
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1861
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 131
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:) Hi there Gillian, I did'nt see that [sarah morris] I'm not on ancestry[my cousin is]I have a document on the probate of mark ellwood, England & wales National Probate Calendar[Index of Wills & Administrations] 1861-1941 record for Mark Ellwood. Administrations 1869.He has Effects under 450 pounds., if you can't find it I'll try to scan & send it to you if it's not to big.
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Hi,
No I haven't got the Mark Ellwood 1869. I have:
Mark Ellwood died 23/03/1875 intestate - granted to Richard Ellwood his son, also mentions John Ellwood of Blasterfield, Crosby Ravensworth, Mark's brother (and my ggg grandfather). I also have Mark's death cert.
This Mark was the husband of Mary Maunsey and son of William Ellwood & Anne Simpson.
Regards,
Gillian
PS - Could you post the details of your Mark?
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:) Hi Gillian, Sorry i scanned the doc and made it smaller but still to big to post[530] size,it was found on ancestry,National Probate Calender 1861-1941 Admin: 1869 record for: Ellwood Mark: retired farmer, dated:15 January, died 23 dec 1868 county westmoreland were granted at principal registry to John Ellwood farmer the son and one of the next of kin,well if you have his death cert then I must have the wrong mark,could you post me a copy please.
I have Mark Ellwood brn abt :1799
Marr abt:1822 Spouse Mary Mounsey:abt:1797
children: Margaret Ellwood
Mary Ellwood
William Ellwood
Richard Ellwood
Sarah Ellwood
Mark Ellwood
in 1871 aged abt 72, lived in Blasterfield crosby Ravensworth,Westmoreland. Occup: farmer of 12 acres
in 1851 he had; 18 acres
1861 he had:160 acres.
Have I got the right Mark Ellwood ??? ???
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Hi,
Here is my Mark Ellwood & Mary Maunsey info:
Mark Ellwood and Mary Maunsey. They were married on 12 Aug 1822 in Long Marton. They had
7 children.
i. Ann Ellwood. She was born 1823 in Long Marton. Baptism on 01 Jun 1823 in
Long Marton [3].
ii. Mary Ellwood. She was born 1825 in Long Marton. Baptism on 10 Jul 1825 in
Long Marton [3].
iii. Margaret Ellwood. She was born 1827 in Long Marton. Baptism on 09 Nov 1827
in Long Marton [3]. .
iv. William Ellwood. He was born 1830 in Lazonby. Baptism on 11 Jul 1830 in
Lazonby [3].
v. Richard Ellwood. He was born 1833 in Lazonby. Baptism on 06 Mar 1833 in
Lazonby [3].
vi. Sarah Ellwood. She was born 1836 in Lazonby. Baptism on 28 Sep 1836 in
Lazonby [3].
vii. Mark Ellwood. He was born 1840 in Lazonby. Baptism on 05 Jul 1840 in
Lazonby [4]. Burial on 14 Jun 1850 [4].
There is no son John as for the other Mark.
I cannot attach the death cert. File too big! Mark was a widower & farmer aged 75 and the death was registered by his son Richard.
Your census data concur with mine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~---------
The other Mark Ellwood:
The probate record:
Name: Mark Ellwood
Probate Date: 15 Jan 1869
Death Date: 23 Dec 1868
Death Place: Lancashire, England (Lupton, Westmorland)
Registry: Principal Registry
Effects: Less than £450
Grant to: John Ellwood (Son) Of Crabtree
Mark Elwood-8 (William Elwood-7, William Elwood-6, Marke Elwood-5, Marke Elwood-4,
Christopher Elwolde-3, Edmund Elwold-2, Edwarde Elwald-1). He was born 1793 in Long Marton.
Baptism on 26 Dec 1793 in Long Marton. He died 1868 in Lupton. Occupation was Farmer [18].
Mary Jackson. She was born 1792 in Stainton. She died 1867 in Whittington.
Mark Elwood and Mary Jackson. They were married on 01 Jun 1818 in Kendal [4]. They had 9
children.
i. William Elwood. He was born 1819 in Kendal. Baptism on 08 Oct 1819 in Kendal
[2]. Occupation was Gardener [18].
ii. Hannah Elwood. She was born 1821 in Kendal. Baptism on 22 Apr 1821 in
Kendal [2].
iii. Barbara Elwood. She was born 1823 in Kendal. Baptism on 13 Apr 1823 in
Kendal [2].
iv. Mark Jackson Elwood. He was born 1825 in Kendal. Baptism on 06 Mar 1825 in
Kendal [2].
v. Mary Ann Elwood. She was born 1826 in Stainton. Baptism on 17 Sep 1826 in
Stainton.
vi. Benjamin Elwood. He was born 1829 in Stainton. Baptism on 24 May 1829 in
Stainton [2].
vii. Margaret Kitchen Elwood. She was born 1831 in Stainton. Baptism on 18 Sep
1831 in Stainton [2].
viii. George Barrow Elwood. He was born 1833 in Arkolme. Baptism on 07 Apr 1833
in Arkholme [2]. He married Sarah Walton. They were married on 24 Apr 1866 in
Stole on Trent [12]. He died on 27 Apr 1908 in Dalton in Furness [12].
ix. John Elwood. He was born 1835 in Arkholme. Baptism on 19 Jul 1835 in
Arkholme [2].
Here we have a son John.
Regards,
Gillian
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:) Thanks for this info Gillian, looks like I was sent the wrong info on the probate, John would of been the son in law married to sarah[Ellwood marr Ellwood]but can't see mark leaving his personal estate to a son in law [haha] well back to the drawing board and sort this out,thanks again Gillian :-[ cheers
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Hi,
You're welcome!
Also I forgot to add that if Mark was alive in 1871 (census, living Blasterfield Crosby Ravensworth with his brother John), he couldn't have died in 1868!
Going back to your original question, in order to get your Robert's father, it would be helpful to order his marriage cert. That way, you wouldn't go off on any wild goose chases!
I may have Robert in 1861:
Robert Elwood age: 25 b1836, Boarder, born: Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Household schedule number: 83
Piece: 2697
Folio: 6
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Elwood single 39
Jane Elwood 42 Sister in law (to Head)
Robert Elwood 25 Boarder, Baker
All born Cumberland
Do you have him in earlier census?
Regards,
Gillian
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:-[ Thanks again for your 1861 info, i only had the 1871 doc which I posted previously, as I said before I'm checking it out and hoping to have the right info so i dont make the same mistake and chase wild geese,cheers.
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Hi
I think this is Robert in 1851
Martha Bickford 33
Martha E Bickford 5
Margaret Bickford 1
Robert Ellwood 16 (Baker)
Margaret Ellwood 25 (Servant)
Marriages Jun 1843 freebmd
BICKFORD John Liverpool 20 252
ELLWOOD Martha Liverpool 20 252 - a sister
Martha died in 1855.
FreeBMD Death
Name: Martha Bickford
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1855
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 143
I have also now found a possible baptism for Robert:
1/3/1835 Workington son of Martha Ellwood therefore illegitimate.
The marriage cert will not have Robert's father if he was born illegit.
Regards,
Gillian